Andrea Bargnani

[Marlo Stanfield]

What kind of trade would you offer for Andrea?

[HornetJail]

Around a #10 draft pick. I'm pretty high on Bargnani. I think he was playing like a legit All-Star power forward (not center) before the injury this year.

[JaVier Mastro]

Bragnani isn't worth a 10th pick at all, Anderson makes much less and rebounds better, place Brags by next to Howard and he won't go near a rebound. He is a soft player you guys wont get much for him.

[Who34]

Bragnani isn't worth a 10th pick at all, Anderson makes much less and rebounds better, place Brags by next to Howard and he won't go near a rebound. He is a soft player you guys wont get much for him.

bargs is sooo underrated if you believe that ryno is a better player. Andrea is a poor mans dirk and i would love to see him play with a center like howard and a legit no 1 scoring option with him being the 2nd or 3rd option. overpaid? he makes what like 10m? thats is fair, maybe a mil or 2 too much but size costs so its aiiit. He has the same value as josh smith.

Edit

maybe ryno is overrated and bargs is not underrated, point is barngarni is a much better player

[HornetJail]

^ This guy understands.

[PDXKnight]

I'm not a huge Bargnani fan honestly. With his rebounding rate he needs to be an SF but he's too slow. All I know is 1) I don't want my pf shooting 43 percent and 2) I want him to get more than 5 rebounds (in fact, double that) so unless I had a top 3 rebounder in the league at center I'd be very relucant to pay him what he's making.

[Who34]

FG% is a flawed stat, dont stare at the stats. you pair him up with chandler/howard type of guy which hopefully jonas is. i think its possible to hide him on defence. have you seen the guy play? he isnt that bad of a defender imo. he is a bit slow but he is a passable man on man defender. i think that there is some stat to back that up but i cba to look. i think it was smitch who played him at the 3, lol big mistake. If josh smith gets 12m/y then bargs should get 10m/y. they have different weaknesses and strenghts but in overall i feel like the have a similar inpact on the game and therefore Andrea Bargnani is not overpaid.

[Doormatt]

bargnani kind of sucks, i wouldnt give anything for him. Anderson is clearly better because he actually hits the boards hard, and plays passable team defense. oh and hes on a cheaper contract. really a no brainer ITO value, Anderson >>> Bargs.

[Doormatt]

FG% is a flawed stat

lol no its not.

although there are better stats like TS% and eFG%. but yeah....

[Who34]

i must come across as bargs biggest fan boy but ryno has the perfect role on the magic team. stand in the corner and take 3s. i dont know either of thier defensive stats but my eyes tell me that andrea is equal to anderson in terms of individual defence. my eyes might be lying to me i havent really watched that many magic or raps games this season. i'm sure casey can hide bargs within the team defensive system just like he did with dirk, no one is going to argue that dirk is DPOY right? howard/bargs is better than howard/ryno nothing anyone says can change my mind on that one. And bargs isnt overpaid, hes making 10m a year come on how can a 7ft dude be overpaid at 10m/y when guys like kwame makes 7m and okafor is like what 13m? please stop the hate. he has josh smith value

[Doormatt]

bargs does not have josh smith value, please stop. he sucks. he cant ddo two of the most important things a big man has to do: rebound and play team defense. his offensive game is certainly comparable to Anderson but the difference, like i said, is one of them hits the boards hard. and Dirk does not get hidden on defense, hes a solid defender. Bargs just flat out sucks in anything other than man to man post defense.

[Who34]

if you pair him with howard, he doesnt have to grab 10+ boards a game. he is absoloutley comparable to anderson on defence but miles ahead of him in his offensive game. anderson scores on open 3 pointers that he gets from howard drawing the doubble team. he isnt very good at creating for him self. i'm nog saying bargs is a #1 scoring option but he can be a #2 or #3 scoring option on contending team and he has shown that it isn't optimal but if forced to he can be a go to guy. do you honestly believe that howard/anderson would win more games tham howard/bargs? seriously if that is the case then i will stop and just go bang my head against a wall. does ryan andersson have josh smith value since he is so much better than andrea? now i'm not talking trade value i'm talking contract. ryan anderson is still on his rookie contract right? ofc thats going to be better value no explanation needed. but what do you think ryno should be paid after this season? please name me a PF of equal to bargs value that is not ryan anderson.

[rugby-hook]

The Lakers may have to trade Gasol for Bargs. The CBA is pushing LA to get under the LT. Bargs plays enough of a similar game as Gasol to be of value to LA without having to switch systems again. Bargs is cheaper and younger. Gasol is a better player and will give Toronto additional flexibilty. LA will need to upgrade is back-up center and Hill may be the fix, but it clearly a drop in talent for LA.

[Doormatt]

if you pair him with howard, he doesnt have to grab 10+ boards a game. he is absoloutley comparable to anderson on defence but miles ahead of him in his offensive game. anderson scores on open 3 pointers that he gets from howard drawing the doubble team. he isnt very good at creating for him self. i'm nog saying bargs is a #1 scoring option but he can be a #2 or #3 scoring option on contending team and he has shown that it isn't optimal but if forced to he can be a go to guy. do you honestly believe that howard/anderson would win more games tham howard/bargs? seriously if that is the case then i will stop and just go bang my head against a wall. does ryan andersson have josh smith value since he is so much better than andrea? now i'm not talking trade value i'm talking contract. ryan anderson is still on his rookie contract right? ofc thats going to be better value no explanation needed. but what do you think ryno should be paid after this season? please name me a PF of equal to bargs value that is not ryan anderson.

idk what part of "he sucks at rebounding" you dont get. thers no justifying it, Anderson plays next to Howard who actually does grab 10+ boards a game and is still a great rebounder (especially on offense).

and to name some PFs who i think have similar value to Bargs, id say its around Scola, West and Boozer. i dont think hes any more valuable than those 3.

[Relentless88]

bargnani kind of sucks, i wouldnt give anything for him. Anderson is clearly better because he actually hits the boards hard, and plays passable team defense. oh and hes on a cheaper contract. really a no brainer ITO value, Anderson >>> Bargs.

So because he's a terrible rebounder, he sucks?

People are way too caught up with a player's flaws, that they forget their strengths. Also, there's nothing wrong with Anderson being better, or around Bargnani's level. Anderson is one of the better PFs in the league this year.

[crazybranman360]

Your not gonna get much for him because it seems that every non raps fan hates him.

[coldfish]

bargnani kind of sucks, i wouldnt give anything for him. Anderson is clearly better because he actually hits the boards hard, and plays passable team defense. oh and hes on a cheaper contract. really a no brainer ITO value, Anderson >>> Bargs.

So because he's a terrible rebounder, he sucks?

People are way too caught up with a player's flaws, that they forget their strengths. Also, there's nothing wrong with Anderson being better, or around Bargnani's level. Anderson is one of the better PFs in the league this year.

What are Bargnani's strengths? People always default to shooting and offense, but he isn't really that good of a shooter. He is a career 53.9%ts and 53.6%ts this year. That's not awful or anything (unlike his rebounding) but its not good by any stretch of the imagination either. An elite shooting specialist is significantly better than that.

There is literally nothing Bargnani does that he is "good" at. Not outside shooting, post scoring, man defense, help defense, rebounding, passing, etc. Several of those things he is outright awful at.

[Relentless88]

bargnani kind of sucks, i wouldnt give anything for him. Anderson is clearly better because he actually hits the boards hard, and plays passable team defense. oh and hes on a cheaper contract. really a no brainer ITO value, Anderson >>> Bargs.

So because he's a terrible rebounder, he sucks?

People are way too caught up with a player's flaws, that they forget their strengths. Also, there's nothing wrong with Anderson being better, or around Bargnani's level. Anderson is one of the better PFs in the league this year.

What are Bargnani's strengths? People always default to shooting and offense, but he isn't really that good of a shooter. He is a career 53.9%ts and 53.6%ts this year. That's not awful or anything (unlike his rebounding) but its not good by any stretch of the imagination either. An elite shooting specialist is significantly better than that.

There is literally nothing Bargnani does that he is "good" at. Not outside shooting, post scoring, man defense, help defense, rebounding, passing, etc. Several of those things he is outright awful at.

I would argue that his offense is a big strength. His shooting may not be "great", but for someone his size, it is pretty valuable.

Offensively, he can be quite dangerous. He spaces the floor really well since the big guarding him (usually the opposing team's best defender) has to check him on the perimeter. That really opens up the court for our other players. The problem in Toronto is that we don't really have anyone to take advantage of that. The team lacks talent (I think only the Bobcats are less talented). His passing has been pretty good as well. He's made some really nice passes when he's doubled in the post.

In the beginning of the season our offense went entirely through Bargnani and it was quite successful. Bargnani had a 22+ PER and the team was playing .500 basketball (in the conversation for a playoff spot in the east). The team was 4-6 before Bargnani initially got injured. They went on to lose 7 straight games without him to fall to 4-13. Bargnani then returns and he was our best player in 2 road wins against the Suns and the Jazz (so at this point, the team is 6-6 with Bargnani, and 0-7 without him). Then Bargnani got injured again since our coach thought it was a good idea to play him heavy minutes on back to back games. He then proceeds to miss a lot of time and the Raptors continue sucking.

Anyways, I think he's a really important part of our offense. That was evident by the team's inability to win without him early in the season. I think if we had some more talented players, they could really play well off Bargnani's presence. A lot of our players actually play better with Bargnani in the lineup. Amir Johnson is an example, and even DeRozan is another.

I've watched almost all the Raptors games this season. When he returned from his injury you could tell he was out of shape. That's definitely one of his flaws. The guy can get lazy and his effort isn't always there. He went on to play horribly for a stretch, before playing really well his last 2 games. I think some of that could be with the way the season's gone. Bargs seemed really motivated and aggressive when the season started, but it seems even he has bought into tank nation.

As for his defense, it hasn't been great lately. Like I said, he isn't moving as well as he was before. I'm not saying that's a valid excuse, because like I said he's incredibly lazy at times. He's very talented, but his lack of effort can be frustrating. The last game against the Heat he got benched early for giving up a fast break basket to Lebron, I think. Bargnani was trotting back with his back to the ball. I give him credit though for responding with 28 points and keeping the Raptors in it. The game was tied with 5 minutes left in the 4th, before the Heat pulled away.

His man defense and defense in the post has always been pretty good, not sure which games you've been watching. His help defense has always been a big weakness, though, so I definitely agree with that. I do think it's slightly overblown because he had to play center for the past few years. It's definitely a big responsibility of the center, but Bargnani is not a center. That's why I think Valanciunas could be a good fit next to him. He is very long, had one of the best rebounding rates in euroleague history, and is a good shot blocker. They could compliment each other well.

I think we should keep Bargnani and see how the front court with him and Valanciunas plays out next season. Of course if it fails, we'll have to do something. Otherwise, the only reason to move Bargnani right now is if we land Anthony Davis. He's on a pretty good contract, is still relatively young and approaching the prime of his career. Someone like Boozer is 4-5 years older and making 60% more than Bargnani and producing at a similar level. There's a lot of bad contracts out there and Bargnani, IMO, is a decent contract.

[coldfish]

As you have noted Relentless, Bargnani is a specialist and is going to be the most effective in certain situations, but he isn't good enough to build around himself.

Ideally, you want an elite defense and rebounding center and a penetrating guard. In that situation, Bargnani's value is going to be maximized but there aren't a lot of teams with that combination in place. The teams that would *want* Bargnani as a long term starter are pretty few.

....

Boozer is producing the same points at a higher efficiency with about 80% more rebounds per minute. That's not a similar level. Yeah, he is older, paid a lot more an injury prone though.

[Relentless88]

As you have noted Relentless, Bargnani is a specialist and is going to be the most effective in certain situations, but he isn't good enough to build around himself.

Ideally, you want an elite defense and rebounding center and a penetrating guard. In that situation, Bargnani's value is going to be maximized but there aren't a lot of teams with that combination in place. The teams that would *want* Bargnani as a long term starter are pretty few.

....

Boozer is producing the same points at a higher efficiency with about 80% more rebounds per minute. That's not a similar level. Yeah, he is older, paid a lot more an injury prone though.

Who said we're shopping Bargnani? The OP? Like I said, it doesn't make sense to move him since he's pretty important to our team. And a defense and rebounding center is pretty much what every good team has, and most good teams also have a penetrating guard. So I guess that makes him a specialist?

Boozer is on the decline and a much worse defender. In fact, Boozer is one of the worst defensive PFs in the league.