Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 9

[bballsparkin]

I'm still ok with Barnes. Although he was under-whelming. Seems like a safe pick for BC. Barnes should be an immediate impact kind of player. He'd look good next to Nash .

[5DOM]

I believe that there are all kinds of college players who haven't shown what they can do in college. Creativity is curbed. But there's no doubt that the college game hides far more negatives than plusses.

Barnes has not been curbed, he's had every opportunity to make every type of play, in single coverage and on the run. Roy would be embarrassed if Barnes isn't drafted high and he has force-fed him for two years, though lately he's waited until games are out of hand to do it. If anything, Roy has allowed HB to be far more creative this year, with poor results; he's leading UNC in ball-handling TOs, travelling violations and offensive fouls according to freeportkid.

Athleticism goes farther in the NBA. Barnes doesn't have it, nor will he have his size advantage. He's making 3s at 37 percent. The line is farther in the NBA and closing defenders are taller and longer. The NBA is more free-flowing and spontaneous but you need plus ball skills to take advantage of that. There is really no reason to expect that Barnes will be better at the next level. There are many reasons to expect he'll be worse. I think he'll be ok but there are no secrets, I don't think.

Barnes has a higher scoring average than Vince ever did at UNC. Just saying

He's also significantly less efficient scoring the basket than Vince was. He didn't shoot over 50% once in 8 NCAA tournament games and shot very poorly against ranked teams in general

[ballislife]

Davis
Beal
MKG
Barnes
Drummond

That's my draft board, in that order.

I think Barnes still has greg potential, and I see him as the "best fit for our team," but I'd still rather have Beal or MKG just based on the "it" factor.

[dagger]

Anyone know where I can watch some Evan Fournier games? He seems like a good prospect that could be underrated simply because he's in france.

Her plays for Poitiers, a fairly weak French top league team. I don't believe they are in any pan-Eutopean competitions, so I don't know about TV or streams. By all written accounts - I have never seen him play - he's got pro game, nice swingman, who has been stepping up his game in recent weeks and does look like he might be drafted in the 20s. Showed well in practices for last year's Nike Summit, but didn't have an especially good game. Passing up this year's Nike Summit because Poitiers is fighting relegation. He seems intent on entering the draft and staying in, and given the lack of quality athletic swingmen with good skills, he could rise as high as 22-23 in the draft, maybe even a little higher. His size - legit 6'7" in shoes, would make him an interesting pick if we were to acquire a second pick in that range. I'd be looking at either Fournier or Will Barton of Memphis in that range.

[Rapsfan07]

The one knock on his game is he can't shoot

[PHANTOMPHOENIX]

He reminds me of Derozan when I see him dribble, except he seems to have the size to play the 3.

Apparently he can't shoot so I guess he is the French Derozan.

[KL78192020]

Looks like Sullinger has lost some weight, he reminds me a bit of Love, any thoughts on him?

[God Squad]

Could I get a summary of Sullingers game? What do people like about him? From what i've seen, he's inefficient and uses his big body to score points. Not sure how his game will translate. At this point I'd stay away. Plenty of better prospects imo.

[God Squad]

Only quality he has that we need is Leadership. And i'm sure other prospects are better in that regard.

[tdotrep2]

Sully will struggle with length if he was 3-4 inches taller he would be a beast. You can tell watching the game against Kansas he couldn't get a clean look and it will probably be the same in the nba. K. Love can play outside of the paint which gives him a major advantage over sully, plus love actually has decent athleticism.

[ballislife]

Say we have a 4-6 pick... would you guys consider trading it for Derrick Williams if the Wolves offered it?

[Rapsfan07]

Say we have a 4-6 pick... would you guys consider trading it for Derrick Williams if the Wolves offered it?

Um...I don't think so. I'm not a huge fan of Williams...he doesn't really have an established position so I wouldn't trade the pick for him. To be honest, I'm not sure I'd move the pick at all. Players I'd want to trade for, their respective teams wouldn't give them up so if we get 4-6 and Davis and Beal are off the board, I'd just take my chances and draft Barnes or Drummond or move down to draft Lamb.

An offer would have to blow me away for me to trade the pick since we are in a good spot in the draft to get a good player.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Say we have a 4-6 pick... would you guys consider trading it for Derrick Williams if the Wolves offered it?

Not at the moment. He's a nice player and will probably turn out to be solid, but I would rather take my chances in this draft. 4-6 is not a death sentence by any means. We could legitimately miss out on Davis, Beal, Barnes, MKG, and Robinson/Drummond and have Lamb or Sully left.

[Onlykiwirapsfan]

Right now I've got the Raptors (assuming we finish 4th-6th in the standings) draft board in a few tiers.

Ecstatic: A.Davis

Very Happy: Lamb, Beal, T.Rob

Content: MKG, Barnes, Drummond

Anyone else I will be disappointed I think, barring any significant new information in the upcoming weeks.

Thats a very solid top 7 for a draft imo

[Rapsfan07]

This is why I'd be against trading the pick for any other players. It's a pretty good draft in our range so no need to make any moves.

[DG88]

This is why I'd be against trading the pick for any other players. It's a pretty good draft in our range so no need to make any moves.

Exactly we'll be coming away with a very good player. Imagine if we get the first pick lol this board might shut down the servers

[nahom1319]

Anyone know where I can watch some Evan Fournier games? He seems like a good prospect that could be underrated simply because he's in france.

His size - legit 6'7" in shoes, would make him an interesting pick if we were to acquire a second pick in that range. I'd be looking at either Fournier or Will Barton of Memphis in that range.

I don't know about Barton, his age scares me a bit, plus I think he could be had much later in the draft. I would look to grab Ross at that point. Fournier (doesn't turn 20 till almost november) just intrigues me as a player we could stash in Europe to develop his skills ala Jonas and Manu.

[Cool-Hand-Luke]

Is the 2012 draft starting to look a lot like the 2011 draft or what? Clear cut #1 and then a talented bunch of question marks.

[Undefeated]

Barnes has not been curbed, he's had every opportunity to make every type of play, in single coverage and on the run. Roy would be embarrassed if Barnes isn't drafted high and he has force-fed him for two years, though lately he's waited until games are out of hand to do it. If anything, Roy has allowed HB to be far more creative this year, with poor results; he's leading UNC in ball-handling TOs, travelling violations and offensive fouls according to freeportkid.

Athleticism goes farther in the NBA. Barnes doesn't have it, nor will he have his size advantage. He's making 3s at 37 percent. The line is farther in the NBA and closing defenders are taller and longer. The NBA is more free-flowing and spontaneous but you need plus ball skills to take advantage of that. There is really no reason to expect that Barnes will be better at the next level. There are many reasons to expect he'll be worse. I think he'll be ok but there are no secrets, I don't think.

Why do you keep forcing these issues? It's not that big of a deal when you consider the ball-handling turnovers Barnes is committing are forced instead of unforced turnovers like throwing the ball out of bounds to an unexpected teammate or dribbling the ball off his foot. Most of his ball-handling turnovers are a result of dribbling into congested traffic for a lay-up or not cuffing the basketball into his biceps and locking it tight enough without a defender getting their hand on it and stripping it off him. 1.9 TOs a game is hardly anything to complain. You're grasping at straws here.

Barnes' size will more likely be neutralized in the NBA, though he still has the height, reach and wingspan to compensate in the mean time as he improves his strength over time. His athleticism is a non-issue as well. I always held onto the belief that, jumping high is nothing without body control meaning being able to contort your body in air space to adjust your lay-up giving it some spin high off the glass when a shot-blocker attempts to block your shot. Barnes' body control is pretty much off the charts as I've seen him glide, dodge and maneuver through traffic before he lays the ball in 2-feet from the rim. And his jump off of one-leg is very explosive. I hate it when guys have to stop on a dime to give themselves momentum and take off two-legged for a dunk or lay-up. It only increases the chance of your lay-up being blocked as it gives the defender time to catch up to you. I've posted this somewhere in this thread, but I think some might have missed it. Seriously, if this doesn't change your tune that Barnes isn't athletic, I've got nothing more to say other than to get off your high horse.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7309828

With regards to his shooting, the farther NBA three-point line and longer defenders closing out means nothing. Firstly, Barnes has shown time and time again in the NCAA that he's taken and made shots extending 23-26 feet out -- the same as the NBA three-point line. Secondly, with his instant pick up, quick release and high-arcing shot, no defender is going to get their hand on that shot. While Barnes isn't a guy who can make something out of nothing, he can always call for a pick and shoot the ball in spite of how free-flowing and spontaneous the NBA game is as you say it is.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

HB...

My point was that HB is not being held back in college, and that there is no reason to assume he's better suited to the NBA. I put the on-ball stats in there because his on-ball game is full of weakness, not potential for busting out in the pro game. He'll have to fight to make his strengths work but I'm not saying he can't do that.



He's not long, it's safe to say, but does Fournier look like a Raptor or what?