The Amazingly Sucky March and April John Wall thread

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Ah the life of a Wizards fan, bitch and moan about not having talent on the team, we luck out and get one of the better point guards in recent memory and we already wanna ship him out after 2 years. Maybe we do deserve to have a losing team.

If you read my post above I've laid down some rational plans. As emotional as I get there are few posts where I can't give you a reason for saying what I do. Most of what I suggest proves to be sound in the long run.

Wall is overrated.

Head-to-head John Wall vs Brandon Jennings
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =jennibr01
Wall vs DJ Augustine
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =augusdj01
Wall vs Ty Lawson
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =lawsoty01
Wall vs Darren Collison
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =collida01
Wall vs Jrue Holiday
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =holidjr01

Raffy, there are two ends of the basketball court. At best, Wall played JRue Holday evenly but he's been owned or outplayed by the first four guards. You can't tell me DJ Augustine is on a better team, either. Collison hasn't turned it over and he has shot .500 against John Wall.

--Wall is not as good as he is perceived to be IMO, and I bet if you trade him you get more than he's worth. I would take Lillard in this draft and a pick for Wall.

--However, when Wall plays terrific basketball, I do backtrack because it is a beautiful thing to see. I get lost in the moment like the rest. Until he puts together ball like he did in February and plays consistently good defense, Wall is a bit of a tease player as far as I am concerned.

[Rafael122]

CCJ - I'll agree and disagree. He's struggling, his jump shot is a work in progress and was coming out of college. He's also turnover prone. But he played 1 year of college ball, he's in his 2nd year as a pro, and he's only 21. In the long run, he'll be fine. These are the bumps in the road that we as fans are going to have to see. I would also like to withhold judgment on him until this team can get quality shooters around him. You see how Rubio did before his injury? Dude got 10 assists a game easily b/c he was surrounded by shooters at the other 4 positions. Wall has to kick out to Chris Singleton. It's not even fair. Surround your point guard with shooters, and the rest will take care of itself.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ - I'll agree and disagree. He's struggling, his jump shot is a work in progress and was coming out of college. He's also turnover prone. But he played 1 year of college ball, he's in his 2nd year as a pro, and he's only 21. In the long run, he'll be fine. These are the bumps in the road that we as fans are going to have to see. I would also like to withhold judgment on him until this team can get quality shooters around him. You see how Rubio did before his injury? Dude got 10 assists a game easily b/c he was surrounded by shooters at the other 4 positions. Wall has to kick out to Chris Singleton. It's not even fair. Surround your point guard with shooters, and the rest will take care of itself.

Maybe so, Raf. I have been thinking about Wall just being young. He's the least experienced.

Rubio is a terrific comparison. He learned the pro game in Europe and he really improved before he came to the NBA. His defense is flat better than John Wall's. Playing over there probably helped him a bunch. He definitely had supportive, better teammates in Love and Ridnour. Not so much the rest of his team, but they could shoot it better somewhat. Wall came to a weird set up with Gil on the team, Hinrich acquired, and Flip Saunders foolishly making Wall team captain. This season the Wizards waited to fire Flip. Now it seems Jordan Crawford's success is coming at Wall's expense.

I think we all will know for sure about Wall by the end of preseason and the first few games next season about Wall. His shooting, defense, and turnovers will tell the story of whether maturation, experience, and his own hard work have made him better.

[Rafael122]

CCJ - I'll agree and disagree. He's struggling, his jump shot is a work in progress and was coming out of college. He's also turnover prone. But he played 1 year of college ball, he's in his 2nd year as a pro, and he's only 21. In the long run, he'll be fine. These are the bumps in the road that we as fans are going to have to see. I would also like to withhold judgment on him until this team can get quality shooters around him. You see how Rubio did before his injury? Dude got 10 assists a game easily b/c he was surrounded by shooters at the other 4 positions. Wall has to kick out to Chris Singleton. It's not even fair. Surround your point guard with shooters, and the rest will take care of itself.

Maybe so, Raf. I have been thinking about Wall just being young. He's the least experienced.

Rubio is a terrific comparison. He learned the pro game in Europe and he really improved before he came to the NBA. He definitely had supportive, better teammates in Love and Ridnour. Not so much the rest of his team, but they could shoot it better somewhat.

I think we all will know for sure about Wall by the end of preseason and the first few games next season about Wall. His shooting, defense, and turnovers will tell the story of whether maturation, experience, and his own hard work have made him better.

Rubio has been playing the pro game since 16. If Wall and Rubio switched teams, Rubio would have the same problems, moreso b/c he's not as athletic as Wall. Rubio's got Love who is a monster, Derrick Williams, Ridnour, etc. He's got 4 or 5 guys shooting over 32% from three. Who do the Wizards have?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

How about that Rashard Lewis!

[nate33]

Ah the life of a Wizards fan, bitch and moan about not having talent on the team, we luck out and get one of the better point guards in recent memory and we already wanna ship him out after 2 years. Maybe we do deserve to have a losing team.

If you read my post above I've laid down some rational plans. As emotional as I get there are few posts where I can't give you a reason for saying what I do. Most of what I suggest proves to be sound in the long run.

Wall is overrated.

Head-to-head John Wall vs Brandon Jennings
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =jennibr01
Wall vs DJ Augustine
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =augusdj01
Wall vs Ty Lawson
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =lawsoty01
Wall vs Darren Collison
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =collida01
Wall vs Jrue Holiday
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =holidjr01

Raffy, there are two ends of the basketball court. At best, Wall played JRue Holday evenly but he's been owned or outplayed by the first four guards. You can't tell me DJ Augustine is on a better team, either. Collison hasn't turned it over and he has shot .500 against John Wall.

--Wall is not as good as he is perceived to be IMO, and I bet if you trade him you get more than he's worth. I would take Lillard in this draft and a pick for Wall.

--However, when Wall plays terrific basketball, I do backtrack because it is a beautiful thing to see. I get lost in the moment like the rest. Until he puts together ball like he did in February and plays consistently good defense, Wall is a bit of a tease player as far as I am concerned.

I don't think head-to-head matchups are a fair way to evaluate Wall. Most point guards start every play with the pick and roll involving their big man. Most of those games CCJ cited took place with McGee and Blatche as the big men on the floor and they both suck at pick and roll defense. Of course opposing guards are going to post good numbers. (That doesn't explain last nights performance by Collison, however.)

I'm not too worried about Wall's defense. He loses interest from time to time and allows guys to blow past him, but when he's engaged, he's a very good defender at the PG position.

I'm real worried about Wall's offense and effort. I'm very discouraged by his recent play. His body language is awful, and he's turning the ball over like he did early in the year. I don't know what's wrong with him but it's demoralizing to watch. Over the past 10 games or so, Wall has honestly looked like one of the worst starting PG's in the league.

[Nivek]

Head-to-head matchups are a bad way to evaluate any player. Basketball isn't 5 games of one-on-one.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Three things pop into my head as concerns about Wall: Competitiveness, Intelligence, Attitude.

Wall does not sustain his tenacity. He doesn't try to get physical with his matchup. His idea of competing seems to be to go at them offensively. I would like to see him get more physical, more nasty, learn to hold, grab, push. Cheat. That in addition to his physical gifts would serve him well defensively. On offense, he's got to keep his head in the game to compete better. Too many mental mistakes right now. The most competitive guys don't do that IMO. I will give him a pass on his shooting. He showed touch a month ago. He competed well for a month on offense.

In terms of intelligence it is very simple. Avoid making the same mistakes again and again. nate, that is the concern recently. He IS doing the same things he did last year.

You also picked up on attitude, nate. His body language and overall vibe just aren't right IMO. I've seen some Javale. I also think his 360 reminded me a lot of Nick Young. I thought about Flip's line, "Style over substance". Wall's attitude at times seems to be he want to match Jordan Crawford's volume of shots. Wall doesn't seem to stick with feeding the big men, either.

All-in-all, those things affect his match up play, nate. Wall has been getting his butt handed to him and that is not on McGee. Wall's slump has been since the trade. In February, Wall played his best ball and Javale and Nick Young were both still Wizards.

[nate33]

CCJ, Wall played his best ball offensively when McGee and Nick were around, but the team defense was still terrible. I think Wall has been better defensively since the trade. I just can't figure out why his offense sucks so much now. Seraphin and Nene set better picks than McGee, and they have better perimeter range to help space the floor.

The one thing McGee brought is the alley oop threat. Seraphin can finish an alley-oop, but not in traffic the way McGee could. With McGee, Wall could just throw the ball in the general vicinity of the basket and McGee would be able to get it and finish.

[Nivek]

Maybe Wall is just tired. He's 6th in total minutes this season, and all the guys ahead of him are seasoned vets. Plus, he's been in a tough stretch of the schedule. Since March 12, the Wiz have played 4 sets of back-to-backs, not counting the 3 games in 3 nights on the 24th, 25th and 26th. That 3-in-3 culminated 5 games in 6 nights. Then 2 days of rest followed by 4 games in 5 nights, another day of rest and they're now in another 3-in-3.

[crackhed]

Ah the life of a Wizards fan, bitch and moan about not having talent on the team, we luck out and get one of the better point guards in recent memory and we already wanna ship him out after 2 years. Maybe we do deserve to have a losing team.

couldn't have said it better.

[FAH1223]

Ah the life of a Wizards fan, bitch and moan about not having talent on the team, we luck out and get one of the better point guards in recent memory and we already wanna ship him out after 2 years. Maybe we do deserve to have a losing team.

couldn't have said it better.

He hasn't proved he is one of the better PGs in recent memory

[Rafael122]

Ah the life of a Wizards fan, bitch and moan about not having talent on the team, we luck out and get one of the better point guards in recent memory and we already wanna ship him out after 2 years. Maybe we do deserve to have a losing team.

couldn't have said it better.

He hasn't proved he is one of the better PGs in recent memory

My problem is peeps are writing him off and calling him overrated after 2 seasons. And I should have worded it differently and said better point guard prospects. I was in a rush.

[Illuminaire]

My problem is peeps are writing him off and calling him overrated after 2 seasons. And I should have worded it differently and said better point guard prospects. I was in a rush.

A second season without a training camp, barely any practices, tons of roster turnover and a coaching change.

[JonathanJoseph]

Rubio has been playing the pro game since 16. If Wall and Rubio switched teams, Rubio would have the same problems, moreso b/c he's not as athletic as Wall. Rubio's got Love who is a monster, Derrick Williams, Ridnour, etc. He's got 4 or 5 guys shooting over 32% from three. Who do the Wizards have?

This is where the discussion gets ridiculous. The TWolves are 18-13 with Rubio in the starting lineup and 7-18 without.

The idea that the PG is nothing but a product of the pieces around him just doesn't hold up to scrutiny. No, we would not be in the running for worst season in franchise history if Rubio and Wall had switched places and no the Twolves wouldn't be 18-13 with Wall starting.

[Rafael122]

Rubio has been playing the pro game since 16. If Wall and Rubio switched teams, Rubio would have the same problems, moreso b/c he's not as athletic as Wall. Rubio's got Love who is a monster, Derrick Williams, Ridnour, etc. He's got 4 or 5 guys shooting over 32% from three. Who do the Wizards have?

This is where the discussion gets ridiculous. The TWolves are 18-13 with Rubio in the starting lineup and 7-18 without.

The idea that the PG is nothing but a product of the pieces around him just doesn't hold up to scrutiny. No, we would not be in the running for worst season in franchise history if Rubio and Wall had switched places and no the Twolves wouldn't be 18-13 with Wall starting.

I think Rubio is playing better as a result of having better teammates around him. FACT.

Wall has crap to work with. Aside from Nene, and it looks like Booker and Seraphin. But they can't shoot 3s.

[crackhed]

rubio also has plenty of pro basketball experience

[WizarDynasty]

this amazing sucky thread...is really only found on loser boards. I can understand Juan Dixon, but now you are calling our franchise number draft pick player sucky. You make this board lose all credibility. When John Wall can't start for a playoff caliber team, that's when you should be allowed to call him sucky. Indiana Pacers, and Orlando magic would definitely take Wall over what they have starting at point guard.
If i were a player reading these message boards, i couldn't wait to book my first flight out of washington for more appreciative fans. This guys lays his body out for charges, gets knocked to the floor almost everyplay and we call him sucky.
The guy is playing with no other consistent nba playoff caliber starters on the roster and we call him sucky. where is his roy hibbert and danny granger. Where is his kevin garnett and paul pierce. Or time duncan and ginobilli.
He doesn't even have a demarcus cousins on his team. His team has even less talent that what he played on in college.

[FAH1223]

My problem is peeps are writing him off and calling him overrated after 2 seasons. And I should have worded it differently and said better point guard prospects. I was in a rush.

He's overrated because of all the hype that surrounded him 2 years ago. We were sold that he was a franchise player, a guy that could lift the fortunes on the level of a CP3, LeBron, etc. He just isn't on that level (and yes, I know CP3 and LeBron didn't go to the playoffs till their 3rd seasons but their teams improved).

Wall is a good player. But he isn't a franchise player. I'm pretty convinced of that right now. I don't think he'll be a superstar either despite him having the tools. Like CCJ mentioned, his competitiveness, his mental edge are LEGIT concerns... his basketball IQ needs work as well because he is still making the same decisions he was last year.

[TheKingOfVa360]

My problem is peeps are writing him off and calling him overrated after 2 seasons. And I should have worded it differently and said better point guard prospects. I was in a rush.

He's overrated because of all the hype that surrounded him 2 years ago. We were sold that he was a franchise player, a guy that could lift the fortunes on the level of a CP3, LeBron, etc. He just isn't on that level (and yes, I know CP3 and LeBron didn't go to the playoffs till their 3rd seasons but their teams improved).

Wall is a good player. But he isn't a franchise player. I'm pretty convinced of that right now. I don't think he'll be a superstar either despite him having the tools. Like CCJ mentioned, his competitiveness, his mental edge are LEGIT concerns... his basketball IQ needs work as well because he is still making the same decisions he was last year.

How do you know Wall won't be on their level, he's only in his 2nd season! Some of you people need to learn how to be patient.