Nick Young traded to Clippers/McGee to Denver/Nene to DC

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Pam McGee is probably quite content post trade.

http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_ ... commented-

The Wizards have a notoriously bad reputation for developing young players. JaVale McGee is one example in a long history. Yet McGee is worth the time and effort to develop. In contrast, the Nuggets coaching staff has a good reputation for developing young players. What are the broad outlines of their approach? And is it being used with McGee? Does the head coach have a timeline in mind where he'd like to see some improvements from McGee?

--Steve Zecola, Washington, D.C.

Great question Zecola, good stuff. Indeed, the Denver staff has a great reputation for player development. As exec Masai Ujiri has said, players get better when they're on the Nuggets -- and players who have moved on aren't playing as well with their new team as they did with the Nuggets.

With JaVale, assistant coaches Melvin Hunt and Patrick Mutombo have spent the most time developing McGee during practices and shootarounds. They are working with him on a bevy of facets, notably footwork and his shooting touch.

The Nuggets seem confident that JaVale will be part of the team for years to come. Masai and JaVale's people will talk long-term deal this summer (JaVale is a restricted free agent).

I am anxious to see how things work out for Javale in the long haul.

[tontoz]

The Wizards have a notoriously bad reputation for developing young players.

Seraphin and Booker seem to be doing just fine. Maybe it isn't about the organization.

They are working with him on a bevy of facets, notably footwork and his shooting touch.

That isn't his problem, although his midrange shot could improve. His offense isn't the reason why many here wanted him gone.

Right now McGee holds the dubious distinction of having the worst +/- on two teams.

[Nivek]

I think the issue with the Wizards and player development could lie in the selection process. Namely, in the draft, they chose guys with physical ability, but questionable basketball IQ and questionable work ethic. They didn't choose gym rats who burn to get better. They may have addressed that issue in recent years with guys like Seraphin, who apparently spends extra time working on his game. I'm not absolving the franchise from responsibility when it comes to player development, but I think that most of the responsibility for "developing" is on the player. Guys who want to work on their games get better; guys who don't want to put in the time and effort won't get better.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

http://blogs.denverpost.com/nuggets/201 ... cgee/6234/

Came across another interesting bit of coverage on McGee from the Denver Post online:

But lets breakdown how McGee gets things done and where he needs to improve:

McGee’s post-up game has room for the most growth. He is right-hand dominant. Really right-handed. He’s got a hook shot he loves to take, and he’s still working on the success rate of it.

Right now, defenses know on a post-up that 90 percent of the time he’ll turn over his left shoulder to take the righty hook. So, if he’s on the right block, it’ll be a baseline hook shot; if he’s on the left block, it’ll be a hook shot in the lane, and sometimes he might take a dribble or two to get into that one. There are instances where McGee tosses in a shoulder fake to get the defender a bit off-balance and give him room for a cleaner attempt at the rim. And yes, there have been a couple of instances where he’s turned left, but he still finishes with the right hand.

Where He’ll Improve: In the offseason, McGee will have to work on A) Refining the form on his right-handed hook to remove wildness and get more compact; B) Developing moves to his left and working on left-handed finishes to diversify his post game, and C) Smoothing out his footwork to bring it all together.

That beats "Javele is a knucklehead".

If McGee can develop better footwork and have a couple counter moves to what the scouting report says can do, he will be come much more effective. I think he needs to also develop a face up shot. Four years in the league I'm not sure how much more he will develop, but it sounds like he's in the right place to reach his potential.

If they can get him to be more physical without fouling and to play pick-and-roll just slightly below average, as opposed to "epic fail", while improving his offense; that will be the best McGee can get.

[dobrojim]

agree with whoever it was ^ that pointed out that McGee's problems
are really 95% about his D. His offense is adequate and he did show
improvement in the time he was here. Defensively, not so much.

[Severn Hoos]

I used GameScore from basketball-reference to estimate efficiency game-by-game and found the following:

Average GameScore:

Vesely Pre-trade/Post-trade: 2.0 5/ 5.78
Seraphin Pre-trade/Post-trade: 3.23 / 9.47

Of course, that's not too surprising since they are both getting significantly more minutes since the trade. What's more encouraging is the GameScore per 36 minutes:

Vesely Pre-trade/Post-trade: 1.59 / 11.94
Seraphin Pre-trade/Post-trade: 7.88 / 13.49


The good news to me is that they are both producing more not just in total numbers, but are doing so more efficiently. Looking forward to what they can do (along with Singleton) with a full offseason, Summer League, Training Camp, and Pre-season.

[nate33]

What's more encouraging is the GameScore per 36 minutes:

Vesely Pre-trade/Post-trade: 1.59 / 11.94
Seraphin Pre-trade/Post-trade: 7.88 / 13.49

Great stuff, Severn Hoos. Those are amazing improvements. Perhaps we should just write off Vesely's first 2 months, given the lack of training camp and the preseason injury.

When people lament that Vesely's rookie PER is an anemic 9.8, the reality is that it was probably closer to 13-15 once he got his bearings. A quick glance at his March/April numbers indicates that he has averaged roughly 9.5 points, 8.5 rebounds and 1.2 blocks per 36 minutes with a TS% of about .590 on an extremely low usage rate. His defense is promising, particularly on the pick and roll, but he has problems holding his position against strong players and he is foul prone. With a little more strength and experience, those problems should clear up and he could pan out to be an excellent all-around defender.

Would he be a bust if he ends up averaging 12 points and 10 boards per 36 with excellent defense? Noah's career averages are 12 points and 11.5 boards.

[Nivek]

From the stats thread: Seraphin full season stats compared to Seraphin since March 1 compared to the league average center:

Code: Select all

KS      SEAS    Mar/Apr Avg.C
MPG     17.8    24.7    21.7
Orb     3.5     3.8     3.6
Drb     6.3     5.6     7.6
Ast     1.2     1.4     1.8
Stl     0.7     0.7     1.0
Blk     2.1     1.8     2.2
Tov     2.5     2.4     1.9
PF      5.0     4.9     4.3
Pts     13.7    17.2    14.4
eOrtg   106     118     106
VOAV    83      126     100

Numbers are per 40 minutes, pace adjusted.

eOrtg = estimated offensive rating (basically, DeanO's ortg is great, but it's a pain in the ass to calculate. Luckily, Ed Kupfer (who now works for the Rockets) came up with an estimator that's way easier and produces results that are within tiny percentage points of DeanO's pain in the ass formula)

VOAV = Generated by my own PER-like stat where league average is set at 100. So, Seraphin has played a bit above average overall over the past month and days. Excellent efficiency. I'd like to see him get better on the defensive boards.

[tontoz]

^Defensive rebounding is obviously the biggest issue but he also should look to attack the basket more. He settles for quick shots which hurts his efficiency. He doesn't get as many dunks/layups and foul shots as he should given his strength and mobility.

[PeTBuLL]

So... No Nene no chance to win?

[Zonkerbl]

McGee's line from last night's 6 point Denver win over Phoenix: 20 minutes, 3/7 FG, 1-5 FT, 2 rebounds, -15+/-

[hands11]

McGee's line from last night's 6 point Denver win over Phoenix: 20 minutes, 3/7 FG, 1-5 FT, 2 rebounds, -15+/-

Wow CCJ

We are going to have to get you a bigger crow.

Specially when you consider some of this stuff.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1173179&start=75

In all of 8 Nene games, he has never shot more then 13 times. We are 2-6. Also, in all of those game no team scored more then 95 with 2 games under 80 and 5 games less then 90.

And how much Nene is worth when considering who else will come play here. Players weren't going to come to play with McGee or Nick. They would come to play with Nene. Specially when you see what KS is now doing.

The core that is here looks a lot more attractive post trade then before.

[7-Day Dray]

McGee has been playing pretty terrible for Denver lately, but even if he doesn't play well, I guess it was still a solid trade for Denver now that they have Nene's contract off the books.

One thing that will prevent McGee from reaching his potential is his asthma. Denver fans have been complaining about how tired he looks so quickly into the game. It was like that in Washington too, but it looks worse than ever right. Like 2 minutes into the game, he'll have his hands on his knees gasping for air. I think that's the reason his motor hasn't been that great lately either.

[montestewart]

McGee has been playing pretty terrible for Denver lately, but even if he doesn't play well, I guess it was still a solid trade for Denver now that they have Nene's contract off the books.

One thing that will prevent McGee from reaching his potential is his asthma. Denver fans have been complaining about how tired he looks so quickly into the game. It was like that in Washington too, but it looks worse than ever right. Like 2 minutes into the game, he'll have his hands on his knees gasping for air. I think that's the reason his motor has been that great lately either.

It may be harder for him to adjust because of the asthma, but I've often heard about some players needing to adjust to regularly playing at the higher altitude, as well as hearing that the difference between the home team's adjustment and the visiting team's inability to likewise adjust (since the visitors are only there for a day) has much to do with the many high scoring, fast paced teams fielded in Denver through the years. Whether that's really true or even a good strategy, I don't know.

[Ruzious]

The beauty of the trade for Denver is - they can come out benefitting from the trade even if Javale is a flop for them. Not just Faried but Koufas is also going to get extra minutes, so they get to see how those 2 work together. And if they don't want to keep McGee, they've saved a ton of money. And that's likely what left them empowered enough to sign Chandler.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

McGee's line from last night's 6 point Denver win over Phoenix: 20 minutes, 3/7 FG, 1-5 FT, 2 rebounds, -15+/-

Wow CCJ

We are going to have to get you a bigger crow.

Specially when you consider some of this stuff.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1173179&start=75

In all of 8 Nene games, he has never shot more then 13 times. We are 2-6. Also, in all of those game no team scored more then 95 with 2 games under 80 and 5 games less then 90.

And how much Nene is worth when considering who else will come play here. Players were going to come to play with McGee or Nick. They would come to play with Nene. Specially when you see what KS is now doing.

The core that is here looks a lot more attractive post trade then before.

Not yet. Kevin Seraphin was -27 yesterday. We know he has played well. What does the +/- mean?

Nene is way better than Javale. That much is abundantly clear, hands. Defense is much better with Nene playing.

McGee has not blown up in Denver. Right now it looks like I was very wrong about that. Nene is going to wrack up games missed due to injuries, and he is also set to cost 13M per season. Nene has been much better than I expected he would be, yet that doesn't mean the trade was a good one. I STILL say Denver will not regret the trade but the Wizards will. Trading young for older, healthy for injury-prone, cheap contract for expensive is likely going to pan out the way most trades like that work out in the long run.

As for Javale, it could also be McGee is just struggling with fouls, free throw shooting, and with confidence as he is being asked to do a lot of things differently. I didn't think McGee was going to get a big contract before the trade. Now, I think Denver will end up resigning him cheaply. His best basketball is still ahead of him IMO.

One thing I will readily admit is McGee is not that good. I can say he's played worse than I thought he would in Denver.

[hands11]

McGee has been playing pretty terrible for Denver lately, but even if he doesn't play well, I guess it was still a solid trade for Denver now that they have Nene's contract off the books.

One thing that will prevent McGee from reaching his potential is his asthma. Denver fans have been complaining about how tired he looks so quickly into the game. It was like that in Washington too, but it looks worse than ever right. Like 2 minutes into the game, he'll have his hands on his knees gasping for air. I think that's the reason his motor hasn't been that great lately either.

The asthma is defiantly a big issue when considering moving McGee off the team. So is his head. And his no butt. And his poor defensive positioning. And he mother. And that he would end up over paid and moving him for a known vet was a huge win for Ted/EG and the Wizards.

As for the Nene injury thing. Can we all get on the same page with the facts. Before this year which was a no camp year. A year with lots of games and little time to heal. A year that the team is tanking because if they weren't, he would be on the floor right now....

How many game did he miss in the previous 3 years ?

Say it with me. Write it in a post yourself so you remember.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/1713/nene
He missed 12 games in 3 years.

[Ruzious]

Not yet. Kevin Seraphin was -27 yesterday. We know he has played well. What does the +/- mean?

I think it means that folks have gotten carried away with Seraphin's stats - and he's really not that good - even if he is much better than he used to be.

[7-Day Dray]

Not yet. Kevin Seraphin was -27 yesterday. We know he has played well. What does the +/- mean?

I think it means that folks have gotten carried away with Seraphin's stats - and he's really not that good - even if he is much better than he used to be.

It's one game.

[tontoz]

On the season Seraphin has the best +/- on the team, by far.