Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 10

DreamTeam09 · Post #1041 » by **DreamTeam09** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 6:00 pm

I'd like to get a big with a 2nd pick. I've been saying Fab Melo as a possible target for a lil while. Ino he's a project but what he is already is something you can never have enough of. Big shot blockers. Fab might make the 1st round so we'd likely have to make a move for him somehow. Another player is Jeff Withey who played solid D on AD in the finals. He has no o-game but hes the 2nd best shot blocker in the country.

Legal Non-Conforming · Post #1042 » by **Legal Non-Conforming** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 6:02 pm

Marvin! wrote:
Legal Non-Conforming wrote:Here are the ESPN rookie rankings. The list suggests that evaluating talent is more important than draft position.

1 Kyrie Irving drafted #1
2 Kenneth Faried drafted #22
3 Chandler Parsons drafted #38
4 Kawhi Leonard drafted #15
5 Isaiah Thomas drafted #60
6 Kemba Walker drafted #9
7 Klay Thompson drafted #11
8 Gustavo Ayon undrafted
9 Derrick Williams drafted #2
10 Ricky Rubio drafted #5 in 2009

Evaluation of talent is critically important, but draft position is hugely important as well - they work hand in hand, not exclusive of each other. Figuring out who the Best Talent is, and then having a high pick so you have the opportunity to get that player are what tanking is all about. If you identify the best player through scouting but don't have the opportunity to pick him what is the use?

By that logic, the #2 pick should be a great pick. Okafor, Thabeet, Marvin Williams, Milcic, Beasley, Turner, Stromile Swift anyone? With the exception of Durant (a drafting mistake by Portland) and Aldridge, the #2's have been "meh" at best. Drafting is not the hard science many armchair GMs make it out to be. Is tanking for a full year worth a Beasley--who was the consensus no 2 pick?

BillyGM · Post #1043 » by **BillyGM** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 6:07 pm

Interesting what they said about PJ3:

"He may be the most talented player in the draft," a scout said. "He's just not consistent. You're concerned about his motor, but not his abilities."

Rapsfan07 · Post #1044 » by **Rapsfan07** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 6:08 pm

Legal Non-Conforming wrote:
Marvin! wrote:
Legal Non-Conforming wrote:Here are the ESPN rookie rankings. The list suggests that evaluating talent is more important than draft position.

1 Kyrie Irving drafted #1
2 Kenneth Faried drafted #22
3 Chandler Parsons drafted #38
4 Kawhi Leonard drafted #15
5 Isaiah Thomas drafted #60
6 Kemba Walker drafted #9
7 Klay Thompson drafted #11
8 Gustavo Ayon undrafted
9 Derrick Williams drafted #2
10 Ricky Rubio drafted #5 in 2009

Evaluation of talent is critically important, but draft position is hugely important as well - they work hand in hand, not exclusive of each other. Figuring out who the Best Talent is, and then having a high pick so you have the opportunity to get that player are what tanking is all about. If you identify the best player through scouting but don't have the opportunity to pick him what is the use?

By that logic, the #2 pick should be a great pick. Okafor, Thabeet, Marvin Williams, Milcic, Beasley, Turner, Stromile Swift anyone? With the exception of Durant (a drafting mistake by Portland) and Aldridge, the #2's have been "meh" at best. Drafting is not the hard science many armchair GMs make it out to be. Is tanking for a full year worth a Beasley--who was the consensus no 2 pick?

Those players you mentioned are #2 because they were chosen second by the team that drafted them. Drafting is not a science but it does require a tonne of homework. Chris Paul could have went #2 just as easily as Williams did. But why didn't he? Because ATL wasn't thorough in their research. Same for Milicic as well.

However, that doesn't mean you screw yourself out of the chance at picking second just because they usually don't turn out to be the second best player in the draft. #2 in the draft can be whoever you want it to be - just make sure that the research and homework is done properly.

andrewxle · Post #1045 » by **andrewxle** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 6:11 pm

Rapsfan07 wrote:
Marlo Stanfield wrote:I posted a couple of value threads on the Trade Board for Kyle Lowry and Tyreke Evans. It seems as though fans of both teams would trade their respective player for a top 5-10 lotto pick.

Let's review:

PG Kyle Lowry - 26 years old
15.9 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 7.2 apg, 1.8 stl, 41.8 FG%, 38.8 3P%, 86.5 FT%

PG/SG Tyreke Evans - 22 years old
16.9 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 4.8 apg, 1.4 stl, 44.2 FG%, 20.9 3P%, 78.9 FT%

So, if it were up to you, what would you do? Right now the Raps pick would be 7th, but we're only a half game from being 4th. However, there is no guarantee that we would stay where we're ranked. The Raps could rise, or even drop once the lottery is complete. Do you take the risk of the Raps winning a few more games and coming out with a pick anywhere from 1st-11th overall? Or do you trade the pick for a proven, young talent and go forward?

I would hold on to the pick. Lowry and Reke are good players IMO but not worth moving a pick like that for. Lowry is 26. Not old, but we're in the beginning stage of the rebuild so I would refrain from moving picks for any player that is not on a rookie scale deal because by the time we're ready to seriously compete, that player would be much older possibly forcing us to find a replacement somewhere down the line. Besides all that, I'd prefer to make a run at the 2013 FA that's loaded with PGs.

I like Reke. I think he can be a great player given the team and system is the right fit for him but I wouldn't move any picks. He's been really disappointing this year and DeRozan appears to be having the better career thus far. I still believe in Reke's talent but again, I'd prefer to wait until FA to try and bring him in if that the direction we're taking. I read somewhere a while back that the Kings may let him test the market and it seems he's fallen out of favor there.

Holding on to the pick would be the best thing we can do right now. Unless a deal comes up for Greg Monroe, Paul George, James Harden or a young stud like that, then sure. If not, let's just hold on and see what happens in the draft.

I'm not going to direct this at JUST you, but there are a bunch of posters on this board that seem to overrate our draft pick. If you have the CHANCE to trade your pick for a Tyreke Evans you do it and run away. As a SG he is light years above Derozan in being able to create off the dribble, shooting the ball, and finishing around the basket. Sure he is playing not so well this season but he is putting up the same numbers as Derozan in less minutes. Unless we are getting Anthony Davis, I say we trade the pick away and package some of our players to get real talent.

BillyGM · Post #1046 » by **BillyGM** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 6:12 pm

Can Perry Jones III be a small forward(as his primary position) in the NBA?

fredericklove · Post #1047 » by **fredericklove** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 6:19 pm

I trust BC's drafting when it comes to the second pick. I don't see how a poster can persuade us that draft position isn't as big of a deal, this is a draft thread where most posters favor high draft pick. Save your breath, just analyze draft prospects, the draft position talk works in anti-or pro tank thread but definitely not gonna work here.

fredericklove · Post #1048 » by **fredericklove** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 6:26 pm

Take Evans and run away? The guy is ball dominant with poor decision-making with questionable shot selection. You don't trade for him in a stacked draft, there are wings who could potentially be better and they are younger and Evans contract will be done soon so you don't trade your pick for him. No way.

andrewxle · Post #1049 » by **andrewxle** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 6:32 pm

fredericklove wrote:Take Evans and run away? The guy is ball dominant with poor decision-making with questionable shot selection. You don't trade for him in a stacked draft, there are wings who could potentially be better and they are younger and Evans contract will be done soon so you don't trade your pick for him. No way.

Stacked draft? Aside from Anthony Davis I can tell you now there will be no wing player better than a Tyreke Evans. He is still a very young player with amazing talent, if people can accept Derozan's inability to shoot, create, and beat his defender off the dribble i'm sure they will be ok with Evans. Not like Sac would ever trade Reke for a top pick in this draft anyways because they would lose out on talent. Again if it is just our pick for Evans alone, you do it and run, Evans will easily become our best player and a player we can actually build around.

fredericklove · Post #1050 » by **fredericklove** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 6:34 pm

BillyGM wrote:Can Perry Jones III be a small forward(as his primary position) in the NBA?

No. His lateral quickness is not good enough for a 3 and he is a classical tweener with no perimeter ability and he operates most at the elbow and uses his athleticism most around the paint. His game is best fit as a 4 where he can create mismatch by beating the slower bigs off the dribble by speed and athleticism.

Walid · Post #1051 » by **Walid** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 6:35 pm

We really need to understand the value of a second round pick; enough with the Jawai's, Alabi's, etc... let's try to find that Fields, Parsons, or Isaiah Thomas type of guy. What we need in the 2nd round is a good ball handling wing that can shoot, defend, and pass.

DreamTeam09 · Post #1052 » by **DreamTeam09** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 6:37 pm

BillyGM wrote:Can Perry Jones III be a small forward(as his primary position) in the NBA?

Thats the million doller question... I was hoping so, buh I unno...

As a 4 hes in the clone of so many others..

As a 3 he's a rare breed.

fredericklove · Post #1053 » by **fredericklove** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 6:43 pm

andrewxle wrote:
fredericklove wrote:Take Evans and run away? The guy is ball dominant with poor decision-making with questionable shot selection. You don't trade for him in a stacked draft, there are wings who could potentially be better and they are younger and Evans contract will be done soon so you don't trade your pick for him. No way.
fredericklove wrote:Take Evans and run away? The guy is ball dominant with poor decision-making with questionable shot selection. You don't trade for him in a stacked draft, there are wings who could potentially be better and they are younger and Evans contract will be done soon so you don't trade your pick for him. No way.

Stacked draft? Aside from Anthony Davis I can tell you now there will be no wing player better than a Tyreke Evans. He is still a very young player with amazing talent, if people can accept Derozan's inability to shoot, create, and beat his defender off the dribble i'm sure they will be ok with Evans. Not like Sac would ever trade Reke for a top pick in this draft anyways because they would lose out on talent. Again if it is just our pick for Evans alone, you do it and run, Evans will easily become our best player and a player we can actually build around.

What part of this lottery is not stacked, genius ballboy? And there will be no wings better than Evans, what are you, what makes u so absolutely sure. Evan isn't even helping kings win. Not a difference maker so not worth it.

nelabai · Post #1054 » by **nelabai** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 6:51 pm

I doubt PJ3 will play the 3 at the next level, but if Vesely can, then why not.

he kinda reminds me Antawn Jamison.

andrewxle · Post #1055 » by **andrewxle** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 7:11 pm

fredericklove wrote:
andrewxle wrote:
fredericklove wrote:Take Evans and run away? The guy is ball dominant with poor decision-making with questionable shot selection. You don't trade for him in a stacked draft, there are wings who could potentially be better and they are younger and Evans contract will be done soon so you don't trade your pick for him. No way.
fredericklove wrote:Take Evans and run away? The guy is ball dominant with poor decision-making with questionable shot selection. You don't trade for him in a stacked draft, there are wings who could potentially be better and they are younger and Evans contract will be done soon so you don't trade your pick for him. No way.

Stacked draft? Aside from Anthony Davis I can tell you now there will be no wing player better than a Tyreke Evans. He is still a very young player with amazing talent, if people can accept Derozan's inability to shoot, create, and beat his defender off the dribble i'm sure they will be ok with Evans. Not like Sac would ever trade Reke for a top pick in this draft anyways because they would lose out on talent. Again if it is just our pick for Evans alone, you do it and run, Evans will easily become our best player and a player we can actually build around.

What part of this lottery is not stacked, genius ballboy? And there will be no wings better than Evans, what are you, what makes u so absolutely sure. Evan isn't even helping kings win. Not a difference maker so not worth it.

I knew you were going to bring that ballboy up. I've been on this site for a long time, always lurking but never posted, but its ok we were all ballboys at a point. Anyways, aside from Anthony Davis this draft is NOT stacked my friend. I am sure because I watched Jeremy Lamb, Harrison Barnes, Bradley Beal all play and, they are not even close to what Tyreke was when he came out of College. Tyreke has so much talent and would easily become our BEST player by FAR. We would finally have a player that can attack and create offense for him self and others, so im not sure if you are serious... :-?

If Sacremento offered us Tyreke for our pick, its an easy decision in my opinion. There will be no player in this draft that will impact this Raptors team more than Tyreke can. Plus with Tyreke you know what you are getting, the draft is a mystery. Stop overrating the pick, if we have the chance to get Tyreke you do it especially if you only give up a pick!

Rapsfan07 · Post #1056 » by **Rapsfan07** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 7:13 pm

Walid wrote:We really need to understand the value of a second round pick; enough with the Jawai's, Alabi's, etc... let's try to find that Fields, Parsons, or Isaiah Thomas type of guy. What we need in the 2nd round is a good ball handling wing that can shoot, defend, and pass.

Take a look at Doron Lamb if that's what you're looking for in the second round. He's going to be a really good player and a steal. Book it.

Salted Meat · Post #1057 » by **Salted Meat** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 7:15 pm

nelabai wrote:I doubt PJ3 will play the 3 at the next level, but if Vesely can, then why not.

he kinda reminds me Antawn Jamison.

PJ has kind of been forgotten in a lot of draft discussion and mocks lately.

I fully expect there to be some buzz around him being able to play the 3 once workouts commence, and I half expect some of that buzz to come from our front office, since its in our best interest to get one of the teams ahead of us to bite on him, hopefully letting the guy we really want fall right into our lap.

UcanUwill · Post #1058 » by **UcanUwill** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 7:21 pm

nelabai wrote:I doubt PJ3 will play the 3 at the next level, but if Vesely can, then why not.

he kinda reminds me Antawn Jamison.

Well, Vesely cant play 3 in the NBA, and he never did.

Post #1059 » by **gojoorange** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 7:24 pm

BillyGM wrote:Can Perry Jones III be a small forward(as his primary position) in the NBA?

Yes. Offensively he is already a 3, and he is long enough to be an adequate perimeter defender.

Rapsfan07 · Post #1060 » by **Rapsfan07** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 7:32 pm

andrewxle wrote: I knew you were going to bring that ballboy up. I've been on this site for a long time, always lurking but never posted, but its ok we were all ballboys at a point. Anyways, aside from Anthony Davis this draft is NOT stacked my friend. I am sure because I watched Jeremy Lamb, Harrison Barnes, Bradley Beal all play and, they are not even close to what Tyreke was when he came out of College. Tyreke has so much talent and would easily become our BEST player by FAR. We would finally have a player that can attack and create offense for him self and others, so im not sure if you are serious... If Sacremento offered us Tyreke for our pick, its an easy decision in my opinion. There will be no player in this draft that will impact this Raptors team more than Tyreke can. Plus with Tyreke you know what you are getting, the draft is a mystery. Stop overrating the pick, if we have the chance to get Tyreke you do it especially if you only give up a pick!

This is a stacked draft from almost every account. You are really, really overrating Tyreke Evans. Why then would the Sacramento Kings say that he has to make some major improvements in order for them to extend the QO? I don't know if you've been following him but he has really been struggling. Maybe even more than DeRozan has. Just because he'd be the best player on the team, doesn't mean you deal a high pick for him. Tyreke has impacted the Kings, what makes you so sure he'll impact the Raptors? How is the pick being overrated? We tanked a whole year for this pick... we shouldn't just be giving it away. Evans, even with his talent still has a lot of issue so if the pick drops and theirs no one on the board we like THEN I'd take a look at Evans but right now...sure he came out of school with a lot of hype but what is he doing now? Same thing with Turner.

Sure the draft is a mystery but Reke is a just as much a mystery and we'll have to pay him sooner. Let's hold on to the pick at least until the lottery and then if anything we'll talk then. Plus, Reke can be had in Restricted Free Agency next year...why move the pick for him? If DeRozan proves not to be out guy and the Kings are going to move on, perhaps a S&T? Either way, no moving picks right now unless the player is a guaranteed stud. Monroe, Harden, George etc.

If Anthony Davis goes #1 and the Raps get the # 2 pick, who gets drafted?