2012 NBA Draft - Part II

[Dark Faze]

Beal on his own would be a failed off-season imo. We have to add a starting SF beside him for us to feel like we made significant strides. Free agency is more realistic than adding another lottery pick via trade, but right now I'm interested in something like Gordon/Harden via FA and then MKG or something similar. We need so much help that one addition simply isn't enough.

[Nivek]

Nivek, how does your evaluation system rate Russell Westbrook as a prospect. He was largely taken as an athlete rather than because he was productive, and that has turned out okay. What about Paul George?

Westbrook would have rated as a top 10 pick most years in my "system." In this year's draft, his "score" would have put him in the same grouping as Sullinger, Zeller and Beal. Players from previous years with a similar final rating include: Evan Turner, Wesley Johnson, Zach Randolph, Luol Deng, Chris Wilcox, Andrew Bogut and Kawhi Leonard.

[Illuminaire]

I'm still 110% on board with the Beal/Crowder band wagon. That would be a great draft, imho, especially if we flip Crawford to get the late first needed to draft Jae.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I think the Zards should look for toughness and rebounding with one of their second round picks. My sleeper there is W.V.'s Kevin Jones.

I like Jones -- he has a late 1st/early 2nd score in my stuff. I've been pimping Crowder for awhile now, but he's the guy I'd want in the 2nd round. Crowder is a good rebounder (about a rebound less per 40 minutes than Jones), he'd add toughness, and he also brings some 3pt shooting.

Another "toughness and rebounding" pick in the 2nd round could be Ricardo Ratliffe from Missouri. Tony Mitchell from North Texas (better known for producing first-rate euphonium players) is another guy I like, but he'll probably go in the 1st round (if he enters the draft).

Each of these players project well to making a roster, but I suspect Ratliffe will have to land in the right situation to make a roster. Ratliff is capable but a bit inconsistent as a rebounder and defender. He will be playing this week at the PIT (Portsmouth Invitational Tournament).

Another bruising rebounder who will play at the PIT is Yancy Gates. He finished his senior year strong after the brawl. The fact that he fights well doesn't bother me at all. He seemed contrite and a not at all a bad kid.

I was looking at that PIT roster and noted a couple of absences. Drew Gordon probably played his way on to enough draft boards to where he didn't feel it was necessary to play. Scott Machado must feel the same way. Both of these guys make a ton of sense for the Wizards in round two.

Crowder and Will Barton don't belong in round two IMO. Neither does John Jenkins. I think this draft features many players outside of the lottery and even the outside round one who will not only make a roster, but they'll play well at the next level.

A couple of guys NOBODY is talking about but they should be: Reggie Hamilton and Eric Griffen.

Hamilton is short but to me belongs in round one based on his performance. If you look at the success of DJ Augustine and Isaiah Thomas (SAC) I don't see why Hamilton cannot be a very good NBA PG.

Eric Griffen is really raw but he looks to be an NBA SF to me. Players like Jeremy Evans and he need to be played at SF IMO. Dunkers, rebounders, shotblockers who bring energy to a game. I guess the Wizards don't need him, since they need shooters. I think he's a better scorer than Vesely or Singleton, potentially. I am interested in how they do at Portsmouth.

[Dat2U]

This is were I'm at right now.

1. PF Anthony Davis. Don't even pick up the phone. Untradeable.
2. SF Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Would listen to offers. Would have to be blown away.
3. SG Bradley Beal. Same as above.
4. PF Thomas Robinson. Open to trading for an all-star quality vet.
5. CE Andre Drummond. Actively seeking a trade.

[dobrojim]

I was a really good FT shooter a million years ago in high school. I'm not that proficient any more -- I haven't touched a ball in a year (frigging knees). I actually used to practice shooting free throws with my eyes closed. Once I had my feet where I wanted them, I had a routine I'd do and then the shot was almost automatic. I don't think I could hit 3-in-10 blindfolded today, but I could probably do it in a few weeks.

I like Beal as a pick and I'd love to add Crowder or Dra Green

In my stuff, if you take out the guys who rate high but won't go until later (Crowder, Lillard and Denmon), I have Beal rated a little behind MKG and Robinson -- in a group with T.Zeller and Sullinger. If the Wizards pick 4th, I think Beal would be fine. Davis, MKG and Robinson are ahead of him in my stuff, though.

Craft would also be a nice pickup with our 2nd 2nd if he lasts that long

He's just a sophomore so he's almost certainly going back to school.

I'm with zards on Crawford. He has more potential than some here are
giving him credit for. The flaws are so obvious that folks are overlooking
what he has accomplished. Now if you believe he is already everything
he might become, than I'd have less hope. I'm not ready to make that assumption.

Inefficient gunners are easy to replace. I like Crawford's competitiveness, but I don't like his game. I think the Wizards could upgrade there with a quality 2nd round pick -- a guy like Denmon would better, I think.

Maybe you'd surprise me with the shot. Deep practice...

I have no significant difference of opinion from your ratings. I would
also put TRob and MKG slightly ahead of Beal. Beal's downside risk
as I see it is mostly whether he ends up being the kind of really pure shooter
we ideally would have next to Wall, but one without the other issues that
we had with Nick.

I didn't realize Craft was only a soph.

I'm not on Craw's bandwagon per se, but some here seem almost
anxious to unload him. I'm not with that group either. We should
have a better idea about Craw next year. Ideally he will be the
3rd G next year via some acquisition either draft or FA/trade.

To me it's clear that the 2 biggest issues for the team are
defensive rebounding and shooting in almost either order.
Davis you have to take simply because he's that good no
matter what you think you need. TRob would address the
rebounding issue hopefully. MKG and Beal would be potential
starters at the 2 positions we are currently weakest. So all
4 of those guys would probably be helpful.

[Nivek]

Another bruising rebounder who will play at the PIT is Yancy Gates. He finished his senior year strong after the brawl. The fact that he fights well doesn't bother me at all. He seemed contrite and a not at all a bad kid.

Gates has a couple athleticism red flags -- 2pt percentage was just .476 (very poor for an NBA-bound PF) and he's not much of a shot blocker. He has size and strength, but it seems like he could lose a few pounds. In my stuff, he rates outside the top 60.

I was looking at that PIT roster and noted a couple of absences. Drew Gordon probably played his way on to enough draft boards to where he didn't feel it was necessary to play. Scott Machado must feel the same way. Both of these guys make a ton of sense for the Wizards in round two.

I have Gordon with a mid 2nd round rating. He's also on the low side for 2pt percentage, albeit better than Gates. Machado is little, but was efficient on offense (his 2pt percentage, by the way was about the same as Gordon's) and he shot the 3 well. I have him with a late 1st/early 2nd score.

Crowder and Will Barton don't belong in round two IMO. Neither does John Jenkins. I think this draft features many players outside of the lottery and even the outside round one who will not only make a roster, but they'll play well at the next level.

Agreed on the 1st two -- I have Barton with a mid-1st score. The concern about Jenkins is his athleticism -- he's slower, not as strong, and not as good a leaper as other SG prospects. I want to see his draft camp scores. Right now, I have him rated as a late 2nd round pick. He's a helluva shooter, though.

A couple of guys NOBODY is talking about but they should be: Reggie Hamilton and Eric Griffen.

Hamilton is short but to me belongs in round one based on his performance. If you look at the success of DJ Augustine and Isaiah Thomas (SAC) I don't see why Hamilton cannot be a very good NBA PG.

Eric Griffen is really raw but he looks to be an NBA SF to me. Players like Jeremy Evans and he need to be played at SF IMO. Dunkers, rebounders, shotblockers who bring energy to a game. I guess the Wizards don't need him, since they need shooters. I think he's a better scorer than Vesely or Singleton, potentially. I am interested in how they do at Portsmouth.

I have Hamilton as a mid-to-early 2nd round pick. (I had Isaiah Thomas as a late 1st/early 2nd.) Griffin rates as a mid-2nd. The tough thing with him is whether he can play SF in the NBA. He has the athleticism, but he doesn't have much range on his shot and his handles are iffy. Plus, he played on a weak team against a weak schedule. He's a guy I'd want to bring to camp as an undrafted FA. Get him on an NBA contract, and then assign him to the D-League to work on his jumper.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Instead of waiting for Beal, what I would do is trade down for Tyler Zeller.

I think a PERFECT draft for the Wizards would be Tyler Zeller, Jae Crowder, and Will Barton. The Wizards should get them and maybe a future draft pick in a trade down scenario.

Beal and MKG are great talents, but I believe Barton at SG is going to be more of a hit sooner.

[DCZards]

I like Jones -- he has a late 1st/early 2nd score in my stuff. I've been pimping Crowder for awhile now, but he's the guy I'd want in the 2nd round. Crowder is a good rebounder (about a rebound less per 40 minutes than Jones), he'd add toughness, and he also brings some 3pt shooting.

I'm a big fan of Crowder. Loved his all-around play at Marquette. But he seems to me to be a bit of tweener. He typically plays like PF but has a SF's body. If I'm looking for rebounding and a presence down low, I would opt for Kevin Jones over Jai. Jones is two inches taller than Crowder and outweighs him by almost 30 lbs.

[dobrojim]

Instead of waiting for Beal, what I would do is trade down for Tyler Zeller.

I think a PERFECT draft for the Wizards would be Tyler Zeller, Jae Crowder, and Will Barton. The Wizards should get them and maybe a future draft pick in a trade down scenario.

Beal and MKG are great talents, but I believe Barton at SG is going to be more of a hit sooner.

overlooking the obvious REALLY perfect draft day of having the #1#1 and taking
Davis, I think the above scenario would be pretty nice.

edit -

PG- Wall, Craw, Mack
SG - Barton, Craw
SF- Crowder, Singleton
PF- Nene, Book, Ves
C- Sera, Nene, Zeller

edit 2 - lots of pressure to produce on 2 rookies who are not projected to go very high
but are highly rated by our cognoscenti.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

This is were I'm at right now.

1. PF Anthony Davis. Don't even pick up the phone. Untradeable.
2. SF Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Would listen to offers. Would have to be blown away.
3. SG Bradley Beal. Same as above.
4. PF Thomas Robinson. Open to trading for an all-star quality vet.
5. CE Andre Drummond. Actively seeking a trade.

DX has the Wizards taking Andre Drummond 2nd.

On MKG and Beal, for some reason today I'm thinking offers might be the way to go with both. Shooting for MKG makes him project as a guy who will take 2-3 years. Size and defense, as well as refined game make Beal also be a guy who is going to take 2-3 years before he's an impact starter. Five years from now, both should be excellent NBA players. Robinson is ready but he will not be a star. He's a blue collar rebounder. I think Kevin Jones could be as good a player because he will step back and shoot the midrange. I would just as soon go with finished products who fill a need and who are ready. Booker fit the mold. So do Crowder, Barton, Zeller, and Jones.

I found a really neat site for stat geeks. http://statsheet.com/mcb

(A great site, kenpom.com, became a pay site. I don't do that just on principal and cheapness. )

Here are my four favorite players in this draft, on statsheet.com.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player ... ae-crowder
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player ... ill-barton
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player ... ler-zeller
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player ... evin-jones

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Nivek, John Jenkins really doesn't look like much of a player. Stubby kind of build on the guy. He's not athletic at all. He's a "trust the stats" not "what I think I see" type player. The Wizards do need a shooter. If the guy can put up 20ppg in the SEC he's got something going for him.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Most underrated top 5: Reggie Hamilton, Jae Crowder, Will Barton, Draymond Green, Doug McDermott. (Andrew Nicholson could go here, too)

Sixth man underrated: Tim Frazier

Best unknown: Eric Griffen

[Nivek]

Nivek, John Jenkins really doesn't look like much of a player. Stubby kind of build on the guy. He's not athletic at all. He's a "trust the stats" not "what I think I see" type player. The Wizards do need a shooter. If the guy can put up 20ppg in the SEC he's got something going for him.

Also just 3.4 rebounds per 40 and 1.4 assists. Nick Young grabbed 5.6 boards per 40 at USC. Jimmer Fredette got 3.8. Doron Lamb also got 3.4, but he was playing with Davis, MKG and Jones, all of whom are good rebounders.

One name that came to mind as a comp was Dell Curry (who played like 15 years in the NBA), but when I looked at Curry, I found a much more well-rounded player.

No doubt Jenkins can shoot, and he's worth a 2nd round pick on that basis. Maybe he finds a role as an off-the-bench gunner.

[Nivek]

Most underrated top 5: Reggie Hamilton, Jae Crowder, Will Barton, Draymond Green, Doug McDermott. (Andrew Nicholson could go here, too)

Sixth man underrated: Tim Frazier

Best unknown: Eric Griffen

You left off Marcus Denmon, who's better than all of those guys except Crowder.

[daSwami]

I wonder if Portland would be open to packaging both of their first-rounders to move into the Top 3. I guess that would depend on where those picks actually fall.

[Ruzious]

I like Jones -- he has a late 1st/early 2nd score in my stuff. I've been pimping Crowder for awhile now, but he's the guy I'd want in the 2nd round. Crowder is a good rebounder (about a rebound less per 40 minutes than Jones), he'd add toughness, and he also brings some 3pt shooting.

I'm a big fan of Crowder. Loved his all-around play at Marquette. But he seems to me to be a bit of tweener. He typically plays like PF but has a SF's body. If I'm looking for rebounding and a presence down low, I would opt for Kevin Jones over Jai. Jones is two inches taller than Crowder and outweighs him by almost 30 lbs.

To me, Crowder is strictly a 3, and Jones is strictly a 4. Crowder can run all day long, and Jones hasn't shown he can run - maybe that's because WV almost never ran. Crowder's short for a 3, but I'm not sure that matters much - he's certainly stronger than most 3's. And he's got an excellent perimeter game, so... he's really not physically challenged at the 3 - he just looks different. Jones is extremely short at the 4, and his power moves aren't going to work against guys who are much taller and longer than he is. He's got a decent jump shot, but his 3 point shooting probably does not project to be successful in the NBA. That would be the wild card for him - if he develops a consistent 3.

[Severn Hoos]

This is were I'm at right now.

1. PF Anthony Davis. Don't even pick up the phone. Untradeable.
2. SF Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Would listen to offers. Would have to be blown away.
3. SG Bradley Beal. Same as above.
4. PF Thomas Robinson. Open to trading for an all-star quality vet.
5. CE Andre Drummond. Actively seeking a trade.

Dat, I like this approach, but I'd change......um......hang on....


OK, I wouldn't change a thing.

[nate33]

DX has the Wizards taking Andre Drummond 2nd.

At this point, the DX rankings don't factor team need. It's purely a ranking of the prospects, not a mock of the actual draft.

I guarantee that the Wizards won't draft Drummond with the 2nd pick. The Wizards have a long, sad history of drafting athletic freak big men who lack a motor, desire and/or basketball IQ. They won't do it again.

Clearly, the new template is to draft work ethic and motor ahead of measureables. They're scared to death of another Kwame, Blatche or McGee. Drummond has a little of all three.

[DCZards]

To me, Crowder is strictly a 3, and Jones is strictly a 4. Crowder can run all day long, and Jones hasn't shown he can run - maybe that's because WV almost never ran. Crowder's short for a 3, but I'm not sure that matters much - he's certainly stronger than most 3's. And he's got an excellent perimeter game, so... he's really not physically challenged at the 3 - he just looks different.

I wouldn't classify Crowder as having "an excellent perimeter game." I consider his midrange shooting just so-so and his ballhandling as somewhat mediocre for a SF.