Bobcats 2012 vs Bobcats 2005

Nanogeek · Post #1 » by **Nanogeek** » Mon Apr 9, 2012 10:06 pm

Here's a sad fact. The 2004-05 expansion Bobcats would appear to have been able to consistently beat the 2011-12 Bobcats.

2004-05 BOBCATS
Offensive Rating: 101.1 (28th)
Defensive Rating: 107.5 (20th)

2011-12 BOBCATS
Offensive Rating: 96.1 (30th)
Defensive Rating: 110.1 (30th)

HornetJail · Post #2 » by **HornetJail** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:10 am

We had Gerald Wallace and Emeka Okafor then.

Eoghan · Post #3 » by **Eoghan** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:20 am

And Bernie Bickerstaff I believe. If we held an expansion draft this year for the Bobcats we'd probably still create a better roster. Ugh.

Elden Payton · Post #4 » by **Elden Payton** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:32 am

The expansion days were dark yes but Bickerstaff did ok with what he could.

Brevin Knight was a great FA signing.

The Jahidi White pick(for pick) was genius, too bad we spent it on Sean May.

Gerald Wallace was obviously a good choice.

Primo Brezec was also a good pick at the time from the Pacers.

The 2005 Bobcats won 18 games and Okafor had something like 26 straight double-doubles, sadly they would probably beat the 2012 Bobcats very handily.

SWedd523 · Post #5 » by **SWedd523** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:26 am

Different leagues, in different times, with teams that have two completely different goals. Pointless to use two arbitrary numbers to tell the whole story

Nanogeek · Post #6 » by **Nanogeek** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:00 am

SWedd523 wrote:Different leagues, in different times, with teams that have two completely different goals. Pointless to use two arbitrary numbers to tell the whole story

Its still the NBA and the NBA hasn't changed that much in 7 years.

How are the expansion team's goals different than the 2011-12 team's goals?

Arbitrary numbers? Offensive and defensive rating measure the points a team produces per 100 possessions and gives up per 100 possessions. Last I check - points were a fairly good metric for gauging a team's performance.

I don't think anyone would disagree that this year's team is not about trying to win as many games as possible. But the plight of this year's team is most starkly shown by comparing it to the first year of the franchise. Management has to date squandered years worth of picks and salary cap to produce a team that is worse than the team we started with. That is the stark point of all this.

Eoghan · Post #7 » by **Eoghan** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:21 am

Nanogeek wrote:
How are the expansion team's goals different than the 2011-12 team's goals?

The expansion team's goals were different in that they tried to be competitive too soon. They tried to build off Okafor, Wallace, Felton and May as franchise blocks. Only one of those were arguably worth building around (Wallace). They improved until they hit their wall of treadmill mediocrity, chasing the 8th seed every year.

This team is a like a complete reboot. This is a dedicated tank (of 2-3 years) of acquiring as many young players with potential as possible and hopefully keeping the right ones that are worth building around.

Post #8 » by **fatlever** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:47 am

im not sure kemba could beat out jason hart as the 2nd string pg for the 2005 team. hart had a solid run that year.

SWedd523 · Post #9 » by **SWedd523** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:27 pm

Nanogeek wrote:Its still the NBA and the NBA hasn't changed that much in 7 years.

Allen Iverson scored over 30ppg in 2004.

How are the expansion team's goals different than the 2011-12 team's goals?

Really? The goal of that team was to show that they belonged and went out trying to win every game. This team has been assembled with the goal to lose enough games to get a high lottery pick.

Arbitrary numbers? Offensive and defensive rating measure the points a team produces per 100 possessions and gives up per 100 possessions. Last I check - points were a fairly good metric for gauging a team's performance.

Did you account for pace? League average? Rule changes? Development and stylistic changes of the game? You can't truly expect two simple numbers to tell the whole story.

I don't think anyone would disagree that this year's team is not about trying to win as many games as possible. But the plight of this year's team is most starkly shown by comparing it to the first year of the franchise. Management has to date squandered years worth of picks and salary cap to produce a team that is worse than the team we started with.

Management never "squandered" any picks. They simply made some bad picks over the years. The salary cap was squandered, not "to produce a team that is worse than the team we started with"... The cap was squandered to get the team to the playoffs. And they achieved that goal.

Post #10 » by **fatlever** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:15 pm

just for fun

PG: Brevin Knight > DJ Augustin - edge to knight, he was a better defender and much better facilitator. dj is the better scorer

SG: Keith Bogans < Gerald Henderson - both solid defenders, henderson is the better offensive player

SF: Gerald Wallace > Corey Maggette - Wallace averaged 11ppg and 5rpg that season but he still brought the energy, defense and heart which trumps maggette's free throws.

PF: Emeka Okafor > Byron Mullens - Okafor arguably had his best year as a rookie and was a double-double machine.

C: Primoz Brezec > Biz Biyombo - Primoz was soft as a pillow, but he still had size experience and could score 20 on any given night. of course biz has loads of potential, but is still a long way from that point.

05 Bench: Hart, Rush, Kapono, S Smith, House, White, Carroll, Ely > 12 Bench

Really, its not even close the 05 team by a mile.