Jan Vesely

tontoz · Post #1101 » by **tontoz** » Fri Apr 6, 2012 7:42 pm

I haven't noticed him bulking up any. I would have to see some before/after pics to be convinced of this. He still looks like he gets pushed around routinely.

He tries hard and seems to have a decent IQ but i can't get on board until he proves he can shoot from outside 5 feet and make a sustained effort on the boards.

closg00 · Post #1102 » by **closg00** » Fri Apr 6, 2012 9:13 pm

tontoz wrote:I haven't noticed him bulking up any. I would have to see some before/after pics to be convinced of this. He still looks like he gets pushed around routinely.

He tries hard and seems to have a decent IQ but i can't get on board until he proves he can shoot from outside 5 feet and make a sustained effort on the boards.

+1 on all points. When he stops being afraid to shoot (a sports psychologist could help) and can do a little more beyond being a hustle guy, I will get on-board quickly....but that's not who he is as a player. I hope we can save this pick.

princeofpalace · Post #1103 » by **princeofpalace** » Fri Apr 6, 2012 9:57 pm

jivelikenice wrote:
princeofpalace wrote:^
Leonard and Farhied wouldve looked great for the Wiz.

Farhied would have, in hindsight. I know CCJ & others were calling for him but I'm trying to differentiate between a draft re-do versus who realistically could have been taken in @ 6.

Leonard was in the mix with Detroit at 8, I thought he was on yalls bigboard at 6 too

hands11 · Post #1104 » by **hands11** » Fri Apr 6, 2012 10:44 pm

Higga wrote:The thing is, Vesley was drafted SIXTH OVERALL. We're not talking about some 2nd rounder or UDFA. He shouldn't need years of work just to be serviceable.

Ed Wood · Post #1105 » by **Ed Wood** » Fri Apr 6, 2012 11:59 pm

Yeah, don't be ridiculous. Top ten picks are for trading for Mike Miller.

Knighthonor · Post #1106 » by **Knighthonor** » Sat Apr 7, 2012 7:42 am

nate33 wrote:
tontoz wrote:Just look at his last 5 games (which hands posted above). 9.6/6 in 33.4 minutes is lame. It isn't as bad as earlier in the season but it is still bad, especially when you consider how easily he gets pushed around on D.

Reposted from the Nene Trade Thread:
Severn Hoos wrote:What's more encouraging is the GameScore per 36 minutes:

Vesely Pre-trade/Post-trade: 1.59 / 11.94
Seraphin Pre-trade/Post-trade: 7.88 / 13.49

Great stuff, Severn Hoos. Those are amazing improvements. Perhaps we should just write off Vesely's first 2 months, given the lack of training camp and the preseason injury.

When people lament that Vesely's rookie PER is an anemic 9.8, the reality is that it was probably closer to 13-15 once he got his bearings. A quick glance at his March/April numbers indicates that he has averaged roughly 9.5 points, 8.5 rebounds and 1.2 blocks per 36 minutes with a TS% of about .590 on an extremely low usage rate. His defense is promising, particularly on the pick and roll, but he has problems holding his position against strong players and he is foul prone. With a little more strength and experience, those problems should clear up and he could pan out to be an excellent all-around defender.

Would he be a bust if he ends up averaging 12 points and 10 boards per 36 with excellent defense? Noah's career averages are 12 points and 11.5 boards.

Excuses excuses. Just let it go already Nate. You and others will fill better.

NoVaO · Post #1107 » by **NoVaO** » Sun Apr 8, 2012 1:33 am

tontoz wrote:I haven't noticed him bulking up any. I would have to see some before/after pics to be convinced of this. He still looks like he gets pushed around routinely.

A few weeks ago I noticed him looking much tanner, which gave him more of a toned look. I wonder if that's what people are seeing. I find it hard to believe that he's bulked up mid-season given the amount of cardio they are doing on the court. I think it was Jared Jeffries who said he always tried to bulk up in the off-season but could never maintain it during the season. Which makes Andray Blatche's constant out-of-shapeness quite impressive in a bad way.

VUK1 · Post #1108 » by **VUK1** » Mon Apr 9, 2012 2:37 am

Of course Vesely's first few months were bad, the Wizards were a travelling circus!

Give him some time, he's good...

Mizerooskie · Post #1109 » by **Mizerooskie** » Mon Apr 9, 2012 11:09 am

For a top ten pick, the early returns on Vesely have been pretty terrible. But I'm willing to show a bit of patience before passing judgement. Seraphin was worse last season than Vesely has been this season, and he's looking like he'll be a useful rotation player.

Give the Janchise another year and see if he takes a step forward--unless, of course another team is willing to part with a useful piece for him.

Johnlac1 · Post #1110 » by **Johnlac1** » Mon Apr 9, 2012 11:46 am

Mizerooskie wrote:For a top ten pick, the early returns on Vesely have been pretty terrible. But I'm willing to show a bit of patience before passing judgement. Seraphin was worse last season than Vesely has been this season, and he's looking like he'll be a useful rotation player.

Give the Janchise another year and see if he takes a step forward--unless, of course another team is willing to part with a useful piece for him.

Agreed. A lot of franchises take flyers on physical specimens like Vesely, and Biyombo with the Bobcats, because of that hope the specimen will improve their skills. The key question is: how much improvement are they likely to gain over one offseason to make themselves valuable players. And how long will the team taking the chance on the specimen be patient. I think Vesely is with the right club as far as fitting his talents. He will look best on a running team like the Wizards...albeit not a very smart or good club. We'll see how patient the Wizards are. If Vesely still looks like a lost puppy looking for his owner as he has looked in many games this year, I think the experiment will come to a quick end. He's producing better numbers as of late, so we'll what he does over the offseason. He should practice about several thousand jump shots a day.

Veselyfan · Post #1111 » by **Veselyfan** » Mon Apr 9, 2012 11:43 pm

I dont understand what happened to Jan in his confidence in his jumper..Last season in Europe he hit many jumpers...You can see in this video some of them... He needs to believe in his shot more,I have seen many times last season in warmups him hitting many 3-pointers...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSbMtFF2b7s[/youtube]

closg00 · Post #1112 » by **closg00** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:06 am

Veselyfan wrote:I dont understand what happened to Jan in his confidence in his jumper..Last season in Europe he hit many jumpers...You can see in this video some of them... He needs to believe in his shot more,I have seen many times last season in warmups him hitting many 3-pointers...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSbMtFF2b7s[/youtube]

If Vesely could hit some shots and not be afraid to shoot, he'd be worthy of being taken 6th. I think he needs to see a sports psychologist. He is actually fearful of shooting the ball judging from how he averts shooting at all costs. Dunking is where it's at for him.

hands11 · Post #1113 » by **hands11** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:23 am

Ok, I have been holding out. I will now admit something. I'm an insider.

Here is what is really going on. Ves actually can shoot. He was instructed not to and when he does, to miss. It is all part of the tank plan. They didnt want to win to much this year. They want one more top pick. We are almost there.

Come next year, Ves is going to dust off that J and you will see the real deal.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #1114 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:28 am

Vesely looked confident against Charlotte. He helped control the game.

He looked like a top-6 pick tonight IMO. Jan had 11 points, 11 rebounds in only 26 minutes tonight. Best I have seen him play.

7-Day Dray · Post #1115 » by **7-Day Dray** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:39 am

It's not like Vesely has terrible touch on his jumper. He came pretty close on the jumpers he took tonight. His mechanics are solid. I think he can become a solid shooter. He just needs to work on it extensively.

hands11 · Post #1116 » by **hands11** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:41 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Vesely looked confident against Charlotte. He helped control the game.

He looked like a top-6 pick tonight IMO. Jan had 11 points, 11 rebounds in only 26 minutes tonight. Best I have seen him play.

His first double double.

80sballboy · Post #1117 » by **80sballboy** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:48 am

nate33 wrote:
tontoz wrote:A little more strength? That is like saying his foul shooting needs a little bit of improvement. This guy needs major improvements in multiple areas to be a useful NBA player. Sure it is possible but it is unlikely. It isn't like he came to the NBA out of high school.

I took the same stance on Vesely about 2 months ago. At the time, he was terrible at all facets of the game except pick-and-roll defense. He had so far to go development-wise that I just didn't think it was possible given that he was already 21. But things have changed. Like I said before, he has bulked up considerably in the middle of a grueling season, and he has already improved his rebounding ability to an average level. With his new baseline being that of a pretty good defender and an average rebounder, I think that becoming a starting caliber player is no longer out of the realm of possibility.

Another 10 pounds of muscle would allow him to compete with any PF on the block. Another 20-25 pounds of muscle will allow him to compete with centers.

I'm confident he'll add the 10 pounds necessary to be a full time PF. That'll make him a worthwhile rotation player off the bench. To be a viable starter, he needs to add an additional 10-15 pounds so he can be a center, or he needs to develop a PF's skills on offense (i.e. a reliable 17-foot jumper). If he does both, then he'll be a quality starting center and borderline all star.

Anybody that has watched this team all season (throw away the stats), knows that Ves is a different player from the beginning of the season. That comes with playing time and confidence, Sure, he still has a long ways to go and will probably never live up to the #6 pick. Forget that. Let's hope he becomes somewhere close to a Kirilenko-Noah type. I don't know what we'll do with the 4 spot next eyar but at least we'll have some options. I love Booker but I don't think he's a full-time player. Maybe Nene will play some 4 with big Kev at the 5.

Vesely's free throw shooting was worse than Chris Dudley and now he's shooting over 50%. He's taking the ball to the basket more and starting to use the glass. He can't dunk everythhing. He has to make those shots around 10 feet first and then make those 15 footers, which he can eventually do. Look at the improvements at the foul line. I would expect him to shoot at least 60% from the FT line next season and hopefully start being credible from the perimeter. Add 10lbs and he'll be able to hold his position much better against most 4s (save for Blake).

zardsfan · Post #1118 » by **zardsfan** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:58 am

All our rookies pretty much get a pass from me this year given the lockout and the limited practices during this condensed season... not to mention the firing of Flip. Jan was drafted a little high for his talent but it was a pretty weak draft class IMO.

ShaqDiesel · Post #1119 » by **ShaqDiesel** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:16 am

Not comparing, but Dirk started his career in NBA slowly too. European players seems to take more time to adapt to NBA style.

Post #1120 » by **Zonkerbl** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:11 pm

Ves took a long two yesterday and it looked a little like he was fighting himself internally ("OMG WHAT AM I DOING??? NO COACH TOLD ME TO TAKE THE SHOT IT'S OK") so it looked a little wobbly. Just barely caught the rim. He needs to take the shot in game situations more so he can get used to when he's open vs. not. I.e. he needs more practice taking the shot in game situations so that he'll get confidence in it.

I see the same kind of mental issues that Seraphin was having. If he can get past the mental part he should improve a lot.