I miss (Fighter X) because.....

[Gold Chain]

Another one is Matt Hughes.

I got into MMA though my buddies older brother, and I think one of the first memories I have, young, is Hughes vs Royce. This would have been UFC 60, but I was new to this version of the UFC, I only remembered the early days with the sumo breaking his nose on the cage. We watched it on a VHS and I remember my buddy turning it on when he heard his brother coming downstairs because we wanted to impress him and show him we were tough guys. lol

Anyways, I always hated him , still do, and wish defeat on him, but he was a marvelous fighter, a pretty good trash talker and certainly one of the greatest welterweights of all-time.

I will admit though,

[Nemesis21]

Another one is Matt Hughes.

I got into MMA though my buddies older brother, and I think one of the first memories I have, young, is Hughes vs Royce. This would have been UFC 60, but I was new to this version of the UFC, I only remembered the early days with the sumo breaking his nose on the cage. We watched it on a VHS and I remember my buddy turning it on when he heard his brother coming downstairs because we wanted to impress him and show him we were tough guys. lol

Anyways, I always hated him , still do, and wish defeat on him, but he was a marvelous fighter, a pretty good trash talker and certainly one of the greatest welterweights of all-time.

I will admit though,

The greatest.

[cowboyronnie]

Agreed with the first two, and I'll add Brock Lesnar and Rampage.

Say what you will about Brock, but his fights were something to look forward to. They were events. I like having a bit of buzz around an upcoming UFC and my casual fan friends asking me questions, where/when to watch, etc.

And Rampage, who retired in 2008 and just hasn't told anybody yet.

Yeah, Brock's physical potential is just crazy too. I've said it a couple times, but his boxing looked really smooth in that Overeem fight. He moved beautifully.

It was an awesome ride.

[Gold Chain]

Another one is Matt Hughes.

I got into MMA though my buddies older brother, and I think one of the first memories I have, young, is Hughes vs Royce. This would have been UFC 60, but I was new to this version of the UFC, I only remembered the early days with the sumo breaking his nose on the cage. We watched it on a VHS and I remember my buddy turning it on when he heard his brother coming downstairs because we wanted to impress him and show him we were tough guys. lol

Anyways, I always hated him , still do, and wish defeat on him, but he was a marvelous fighter, a pretty good trash talker and certainly one of the greatest welterweights of all-time.

I will admit though,

Nah, that's Georges. Matt's #2 imo.

The greatest.

[Nemesis21]

Another one is Matt Hughes.

I got into MMA though my buddies older brother, and I think one of the first memories I have, young, is Hughes vs Royce. This would have been UFC 60, but I was new to this version of the UFC, I only remembered the early days with the sumo breaking his nose on the cage. We watched it on a VHS and I remember my buddy turning it on when he heard his brother coming downstairs because we wanted to impress him and show him we were tough guys. lol

Anyways, I always hated him , still do, and wish defeat on him, but he was a marvelous fighter, a pretty good trash talker and certainly one of the greatest welterweights of all-time.

I will admit though,

The greatest.

Nah, that's Georges. Matt's #2 imo.

45-9 7 title defenses finished fights > 22-2 6 title defenses rarely finishes fights

[SDM]

GSP's beaten much better competition. GSP wishes he could fight Carlos Newton twice in three fights. Trigg and Sherk (GSP slaughtered both), Sakurai, Gil Castillo... none of these guys or their modern equivalents are any match for GSP. Hughes is 1-4 versus the fighters GSP has beaten in his title run.

I don't even see how it's debatable at this point.

[Nemesis21]

GSP's beaten much better competition. GSP wishes he could fight Carlos Newton twice in three fights. Trigg and Sherk (GSP slaughtered both), Sakurai, Gil Castillo... none of these guys or their modern equivalents are any match for GSP. Hughes is 1-4 versus the fighters GSP has beaten in his title run.

I don't even see how it's debatable at this point.

Again GSP rarely finishes fights. In your opinion he faced better competition that Matt. I disagree. GSP is the LnP king. I'm sorry but I'm not being a Canadian homer about it.

[SDM]

GSP's beaten much better competition. GSP wishes he could fight Carlos Newton twice in three fights. Trigg and Sherk (GSP slaughtered both), Sakurai, Gil Castillo... none of these guys or their modern equivalents are any match for GSP. Hughes is 1-4 versus the fighters GSP has beaten in his title run.

I don't even see how it's debatable at this point.

Again GSP rarely finishes fights. In your opinion he faced better competition that Matt. I disagree. GSP is the LnP king. I'm sorry but I'm not being a Canadian homer about it.

I'm not being a Canadian homer, I'm being reasonable and applying common sense. Trigg lost 2/3 fights after losing to Hughes, Newton went 2-4 for the next two years after losing to Hughes, Castillo went 2-3 and retired, Riggs exchanged wins and losses for the next five years, Sakurai went 3-3. After GSP, Fitch won 5 straight, Kos went 8-2 against the rest of the division since the first lost to GSP, Serra went 1-2 and retired, Shields is 1-1, Alves and Hardy have struggled a bit. I think it goes without saying that talent pools are deeper now. Clearly, GSP has fought better, more well-rounded, more experienced competition. He fights the absolute best of his weight class, Hughes fought whoever could make 170 in a much, much smaller talent pool. And for the last time, it's not GSP's job to put on an exciting fight for you. He'll continue to win 50-43 decisions and people like you will continue to find a way to tell others that he's not a dominant champion because he's not annihilating a 9-5 Carlos Newton (and getting a gift win while being passed out in a triangle). Do the two finishes in three fights against Hughes not matter all of a sudden?

Accept that you're wrong, drink a fruity drink with an umbrella in it and move on.

[Nemesis21]

GSP's beaten much better competition. GSP wishes he could fight Carlos Newton twice in three fights. Trigg and Sherk (GSP slaughtered both), Sakurai, Gil Castillo... none of these guys or their modern equivalents are any match for GSP. Hughes is 1-4 versus the fighters GSP has beaten in his title run.

I don't even see how it's debatable at this point.

Again GSP rarely finishes fights. In your opinion he faced better competition that Matt. I disagree. GSP is the LnP king. I'm sorry but I'm not being a Canadian homer about it.

I'm not being a Canadian homer, I'm being reasonable and applying common sense. Trigg lost 2/3 fights after losing to Hughes, Newton went 2-4 for the next two years after losing to Hughes, Castillo went 2-3 and retired, Riggs exchanged wins and losses for the next five years, Sakurai went 3-3. After GSP, Fitch won 5 straight, Kos went 8-2 against the rest of the division since the first lost to GSP, Serra went 1-2 and retired, Shields is 1-1, Alves and Hardy have struggled a bit. I think it goes without saying that talent pools are deeper now. Clearly, GSP has fought better, more well-rounded, more experienced competition. He fights the absolute best of his weight class, Hughes fought whoever could make 170 in a much, much smaller talent pool. And for the last time, it's not GSP's job to put on an exciting fight for you. He'll continue to win 50-43 decisions and people like you will continue to find a way to tell others that he's not a dominant champion because he's not annihilating a 9-5 Carlos Newton (and getting a gift win while being passed out in a triangle). Do the two finishes in three fights against Hughes not matter all of a sudden?

Accept that you're wrong, drink a fruity drink with an umbrella in it and move on.

Who cares what their opponents did in their next 5 fights after facing them. Just because GSP beat Matt 2 out of 3 times, does not make him the greatest WW. Matt has twice as many wins in his career. And probably twice as many finishes.

[SDM]

Twice as many finishes and 200% the number of losses to Dennis Hallman.

And who cares about the heads up matches? Yeah, who cares about taking two out of three. That makes absolutely no sense and has no relevance in a head to head comparison. Yeesh. Yer running on fumes by this point.

[Nemesis21]

Twice as many finishes and 200% the number of losses to Dennis Hallman.

And who cares about the heads up matches? Yeah, who cares about taking two out of three. That makes absolutely no sense and has no relevance in a head to head comparison. Yeesh. Yer running on fumes by this point.

Didn't say that, re-read it. Said just because GSP won 2 of the 3 vs Matt, does not make him greatest of all time.

[Gold Chain]

Sorry, Nemesis, fully with SDM on this.

Prime Georges vs Prime Matt, GSP wins every time imo.

I've seen this debate for years on other sites, so I'll leave it at that.

Whatever, they're both great fighters and are always usually 1/2 in any P4P All-Time WW rankings.

[Nemesis21]

Sorry, Nemesis, fully with SDM on this.

Prime Georges vs Prime Matt, GSP wins every time imo.

I've seen this debate for years on other sites, so I'll leave it at that.

Whatever, they're both great fighters and are always usually 1/2 in any P4P All-Time WW rankings.

And that's totally fair.

[K1NG]

If they hadn't ever fought one another, I think Hughes would have a solid argument. The fact that GSP beat him twice changes everything.

[Shaazzam]

I miss Evan Tanner because he's dead.

[cowboyronnie]

GSP's beaten much better competition. GSP wishes he could fight Carlos Newton twice in three fights. Trigg and Sherk (GSP slaughtered both), Sakurai, Gil Castillo... none of these guys or their modern equivalents are any match for GSP. Hughes is 1-4 versus the fighters GSP has beaten in his title run.

I don't even see how it's debatable at this point.

Again GSP rarely finishes fights. In your opinion he faced better competition that Matt. I disagree. GSP is the LnP king. I'm sorry but I'm not being a Canadian homer about it.

I'm not being a Canadian homer, I'm being reasonable and applying common sense. Trigg lost 2/3 fights after losing to Hughes, Newton went 2-4 for the next two years after losing to Hughes, Castillo went 2-3 and retired, Riggs exchanged wins and losses for the next five years, Sakurai went 3-3. After GSP, Fitch won 5 straight, Kos went 8-2 against the rest of the division since the first lost to GSP, Serra went 1-2 and retired, Shields is 1-1, Alves and Hardy have struggled a bit. I think it goes without saying that talent pools are deeper now. Clearly, GSP has fought better, more well-rounded, more experienced competition. He fights the absolute best of his weight class, Hughes fought whoever could make 170 in a much, much smaller talent pool. And for the last time, it's not GSP's job to put on an exciting fight for you. He'll continue to win 50-43 decisions and people like you will continue to find a way to tell others that he's not a dominant champion because he's not annihilating a 9-5 Carlos Newton (and getting a gift win while being passed out in a triangle). Do the two finishes in three fights against Hughes not matter all of a sudden?

Accept that you're wrong, drink a fruity drink with an umbrella in it and move on.

Right. But then how do you hold against the logical conclusion of that argument by diminishing, say, a prime Royce Gracie, based on the lack of "talent pool" and the ease with which the next generation could school him? I'd say the majority of today's purple belts could give prime Royce a serious go in a BJJ competition - a lot of them would outright sub him. But he was there before the tide had risen, and everyone had risen with it. As Hughes was. Unless you think Hughes was protected and there were better fights out there for him, I don't think you can hold a relative lack of talent against him...precisely because it's relative.

I consider Hughes as dominant as GSP.

[REDDzone]

Right. But then how do you hold against the logical conclusion of that argument by diminishing, say, a prime Royce Gracie, based on the lack of "talent pool" and the ease with which the next generation could school him? I'd say the majority of today's purple belts could give prime Royce a serious go in a BJJ competition - a lot of them would outright sub him. But he was there before the tide had risen, and everyone had risen with it. As Hughes was. Unless you think Hughes was protected and there were better fights out there for him, I don't think you can hold a relative lack of talent against him...precisely because it's relative.

I consider Hughes as dominant as GSP.

The above argument is what nemesis should have responded with, instead of just yelling Canadian homer without substance.

FWIW, I probably have GSP at the top. But I don't think its laughable either way.

[Nemesis21]

Right. But then how do you hold against the logical conclusion of that argument by diminishing, say, a prime Royce Gracie, based on the lack of "talent pool" and the ease with which the next generation could school him? I'd say the majority of today's purple belts could give prime Royce a serious go in a BJJ competition - a lot of them would outright sub him. But he was there before the tide had risen, and everyone had risen with it. As Hughes was. Unless you think Hughes was protected and there were better fights out there for him, I don't think you can hold a relative lack of talent against him...precisely because it's relative.

I consider Hughes as dominant as GSP.

The above argument is what nemesis should have responded with, instead of just yelling Canadian homer without substance.

FWIW, I probably have GSP at the top. But I don't think its laughable either way.

I didn't yell. Most of the posters on this board outside of Cammo and I, are from Canada.

[REDDzone]

I'm from Milwaukee.

My point is that SDM is a knowledgeable dude who was backing up his assertions as opposed to blindly loving GSP. Around GSP fight time we may see some dudes on this board with raps avs swinging by and talking up GSP and/or dissing his opponents (BJ, Kos, etc.). But its rare.

[SDM]

I was really animated there. I had a puny portion of pasta for lunch. I don't blindly root for anyone, especially not a dirty separatist like Georges.