OT: Marlins Suspend Manager Ozzie Guillen for 5 Games

[Parataxis]

Nobody said it was. The basic concept is still the same though.

No, it's really not the same at all. Guillen is free to say whatever he wants, and the Marlins are free to suspend him if he does something stupid. Crazy how freedom works, isn't it?

And posters here are free to call out the Marlins for being wrong to do so. Your point?

[Skin Blues]

Baseball is not now, nor has it ever been, about freedom. The idea that it is has quite often been overly romanticized, though.

Nobody said it was. The basic concept is still the same though.

No, it's really not the same at all. Guillen is free to say whatever he wants, and the Marlins are free to suspend him if he does something stupid. Crazy how freedom works, isn't it?

And posters here are free to call out the Marlins for being wrong to do so. Your point?

My point is that the Cuban-Americans in Miami aren't hypocrites for wanting Ozzie suspended. I thought that was pretty obvious since I explicitly said it at least once.

[Hamyltowne]

Well, so much for freedom of speech and political opinion.

Think before you write. Or, at least, read before you write.

Think before you write, yourself. I never said that they weren't allowed to do it.

Well, then, what were you saying? Or are you in the habit of typing before thinking?

Parataxis, you have become imperious. If you never said they weren't allowed to fire him, then how is it "so much for freedom of speech and political opinion"?

Freedom of speech means not going to jail. Nothing more.

It does disgust me though that MLB would support the Marlins' actions.

It shouldn't disgust you. Baseball is a business. MLB is a company, an entertainment company, and they put out a product. Hence why the teams are all titled as franchises.

The Marlins are one such franchise. Ozzie might cost them the bulk share of their customers with his comments. There is virtually no way to sell a product to a group so revolted at the product spokesman (i.e. the Manager).

The Marlins didn't suspend Ozzie. MLB didn't suspend Ozzie. The market suspended Ozzie.

There is a cost to everything. That includes speech. The cost was too great for the Marlins and they took action.

Baseball is the American way of life, and the American way of life is all about protecting political speech.

No, it's not. Come on, enough with the histrionics.

Were I a Miamian, I'd be thinking twice about renewing season tickets if that's their approach to freedom.

You wouldn't include this if you didn't think it some sort of rhetorical device (it's not) but it does serve to point out your own hypocrisy. The Marlins were faced with hordes of people in their very own backyard--the new park is in Little Havana--threatening to boycott games and deep six their season tickets. So, they placated the fanbase to mollify the tension, lest they have protests outside the ticket gates all season long, yet this is wrong to you, but your solution, "were you a Miamian," is to not renew your own hypothetical season tickets?

Have you considered wearing a helmet to sleep?

In future, I will not be responding to any post that has even the patina of politics.

[flatjacket1]

Why can't we all just be friends

[Hamyltowne]

Why can't we all just be friends

You're right. You're absolutely right.

Still, this is why politics and religion are not discussed at the dinner table.

[ItsDanger]

Look, if he said anything that could be spun as pro-Castro (right or worng), expect a reaction. Guillen is ignorant of his new surroundings. Im not agreeing or disagreeing but they take it seriously down there and he should know that. Lots of Cuban descendants in Miami.

[Parataxis]

Think before you write, yourself. I never said that they weren't allowed to do it.

Well, then, what were you saying? Or are you in the habit of typing before thinking?

I was saying, quite simply, that I view them as being in the wrong - morally - for doing so. It was a normative argument, not a descriptive one; that I would respect them more if they allowed their Manager to express his political views without fear of reprisal.

Baseball is the American way of life, and the American way of life is all about protecting political speech.

No, it's not. Come on, enough with the histrionics.

Fair. I should have said 'bills itself as', rather than 'is'

Were I a Miamian, I'd be thinking twice about renewing season tickets if that's their approach to freedom.

You wouldn't include this if you didn't think it some sort of rhetorical device (it's not) but it does serve to point out your own hypocrisy. The Marlins were faced with hordes of people in their very own backyard--the new park is in Little Havana--threatening to boycott games and deep six their season tickets. So, they placated the fanbase to mollify the tension, lest they have protests outside the ticket gates all season long, yet this is wrong to you, but your solution, "were you a Miamian," is to not renew your own hypothetical season tickets?

That's not hypocrisy, that's influencing the markets. I recognize that the Marlins did it for financial reasons; were I a Miamian, I'd be trying to change their math.

I fail to see why you feel it would be okay for one group to threaten to boycott the Marlins for their hypothetical lack of action, but not for another to threaten a boycott for their actions. That strikes me as a greater hypocrisy.

Again, this was never about what they're legally allowed to do, or what makes them the most money. This is about how I feel on their actions. And I feel disappointed.

[Hamyltowne]

[Hamyltowne]

Right outside the ticket booths. This can't be good for business.



Right outside the gates:



We should start a countdown thread to the day he gets fired.

[illy]

lol i think we may see another ozzie trade in the works the way this is going.

joey cora is a smart man following ozzie, he knew he would be managing in no time.

[Avenger]

That's disgusting but then again these thugs have always gotten what they've wanted. Can people also stop calling them Cuban refugees? Its an insult to real refugees