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Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter.

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Re: Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter 

Post#61 » by Sprewell4Three » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:53 pm

truth serum wrote:It's crazy how many people actually hate Steph and say vile things about him and they don't even know him. That says more to me about YOUR character than the one-sided view we got from our adoring media tells me about Stephon's.

To think he'd be a bad idea for this team is one thing, but to still be calling him names....saying he's a loser and a drug addict.....while he's over in China making his life great and finding peace of mind, still playing basketball and keeping it real......that makes you the losers. In my circle? The way my people and I judge others, you're nothing but a turd.

As for Steph coming back to this team? Not only do I think he could help the team right now, but it would be incredible for me to see Marbury come back to the Knicks in the final years of his career after turning his career around in China, get a chance to play for an actual contender, and be an important part of the Knicks team that eventually wins the title. That'd be one full circle for Steph and I love to see full circles.

That's not gonna happen for obvious reasons aside from the fact that thinking the Knicks can win the title (with Marbury no less) is like taboo to some people. It's also the media and the people of New York working in perfect harmony to prevent awesome stuff like that from happening. In the world that Hollywood and mass media has created and that a lot of you have been willingly sucked into, there is no forgiveness and there is no thinking outside of the box. Marbury is hated here because he is a cancer and he's not allowed back. Lastly, he doesn't want to come back. Why would he?



I guess you forgot how terrible he was back 4 yrs ago. Not only is he a scrub, he's a huge distraction!

The Knicks are finally winning games yet we have people that want to bring in misery. Some of you dudes make me want to pull my hair out
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Re: Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter 

Post#62 » by IMAN5 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:09 pm

That tweet made me happy, never said anything bad.

He's enjoying his career, happy he won the championship. The guy just wants to play.
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Re: Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter 

Post#63 » by Kampuchea » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:12 pm

no way he comes back. Why would he want to?

He is a hero to a whole country, does well financially and won a title as the key player. So he would even consider coming back to be a backup, villain, media circus on a mid level team?

He is definitely talented enough to play in the NBA and much better over what we have now, but i see no chance of this happening. And yeah, i am a Marbury fan and blame the clown show on our teams mismanagement during those years.
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Re: Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter 

Post#64 » by makeitstop » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:25 pm

This was actually settled, by Marbs himself, a couple of weeks ago.

Someone asked him if he'd want to return to the Knicks. His reply:

Mr. Marbury hails from Coney Island, and the Spike Lee basketball film, “He Got Game,” was partly filmed there at his childhood courts at O’Dwyer Gardens. But his separation from the Knicks was less than pleasant, and on Sunday he tweeted that he would never again play for the team — “not at GUNPOINT.”


I'll take that as a no. :lol:

I'm glad he's happy. We should just let him be.
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Re: Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter 

Post#65 » by 21shumpst » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:14 pm

Starbury, Isiah, and Larry Brown, bring 'em all back. Get it done Grunnie.
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Re: Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter 

Post#66 » by ikidunot » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:43 pm

If Eddie Curry can get another chance(He is with the Heat) Marbury deserves another one. It seems like he has moved on though. Hope he is at peace.
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Re: Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter 

Post#67 » by BBALLER4FR » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:53 pm

GONYK wrote:
BBALLER4FR wrote:What is wrong with some of you guys? Everybody was shouting "Savior!" from the rooftops for Baron Davis. If you can honestly say that right now you'd prefer watching this 32 year old version of Baron Davis starting over this 35 year old version of Stephon Marbury you're nuts. Maybe Jeremy Lin is the future of the Knicks but it's not set in stone with Melo here. And that's nothing to do with Melo's effort but more to do with the night and day production you get from him with vs. with Lin and Amare on the floor. Marbury (if he wanted to come back) would be relatively cheap, is always healthy and he still plays at a very high level. Better than Kidd, Davis, Bibby, Fisher or any other veteran PG around his age. I would take Marbury 100 times right now of Baron Davis.


Honestly, when is the last time you saw Marbury play?


Sorry for the delayed response, I had to pick up children from school but

Really man? What's it matter how much I've seen of him? I know he led the Chinese team to a championship. I know JR Smith and Kenyon Martin both came back to the states after being ousted early. So one could argue he is better than those 2 guys at this point in their careers (even though I wouldn't dare utter such nonsense - I'm just going by this years accompolishment.). I also know Marbury had a relatively injury free career and he always kept his body in tip top shape... more than can be said of Baron Davis. I also know from the clips I watched of Marbury on the Chinese team (a) his game/style/shooting looks exactly the same as it did 2 years ago and (b) he's able to get up the floor with ease at age 35. Look at Baron right now and tell me why you would even pose such a question. If we were throwing Billups out there right now instead of Baron/Bibby/Douglas this conversation wouldn't even exist. That's how bad our PG rotation is.

If Kenyon, JR Smith and Wilson Chandler can come back into the NBA after playing with such "inferior" talent and losing, than no one here should question if Marbury can still play in the NBA. If this were Iverson's Turkish team winning the championship everybody would be sold on Iverson returning. But now all the detractors can flame Marbury some more and the only people who get grilled are the guys with a non-mob mentality about Marbury.
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Re: Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter 

Post#68 » by blackstar » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:15 pm

BBALLER4FR wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Honestly, when is the last time you saw Marbury play?


Sorry for the delayed response, I had to pick up children from school but

Really man? What's it matter how much I've seen of him? I know he led the Chinese team to a championship. I know JR Smith and Kenyon Martin both came back to the states after being ousted early. So one could argue he is better than those 2 guys at this point in their careers (even though I wouldn't dare utter such nonsense - I'm just going by this years accompolishment.). I also know Marbury had a relatively injury free career and he always kept his body in tip top shape... more than can be said of Baron Davis. I also know from the clips I watched of Marbury on the Chinese team (a) his game/style/shooting looks exactly the same as it did 2 years ago and (b) he's able to get up the floor with ease at age 35. Look at Baron right now and tell me why you would even pose such a question. If we were throwing Billups out there right now instead of Baron/Bibby/Douglas this conversation wouldn't even exist. That's how bad our PG rotation is.

If Kenyon, JR Smith and Wilson Chandler can come back into the NBA after playing with such "inferior" talent and losing, than no one here should question if Marbury can still play in the NBA. If this were Iverson's Turkish team winning the championship everybody would be sold on Iverson returning. But now all the detractors can flame Marbury some more and the only people who get grilled are the guys with a non-mob mentality about Marbury.


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Re: Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter 

Post#69 » by blackstar » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:21 pm

I laugh at the people that call him a scrub.

Last time dude played in the NBA he had been inactive for a whole YEAR. You expect a 32 - 33 year old guy to start playing after a whole year off and start dominating the league? And he wasn't even a scrub. He was respectable. The only thing that was really off was his jumpshot, not surprisingly, as you need your game legs under you for your jumpshot to be consistent.

Is he the Marbury of 2001? No, but the guy can still play a solid backup role in this league, without a doubt. Would he be better than Davis? Absolutely, unless Davis miraculously gets healthy. And he's 3 years older too.

None of this matters though because there is no chance he comes back. He doesn't want anything to do with the NBA. He has no reason to come back to the Knicks after everything that's happened. And this team has no notion of bringing him in, either. Let things be.
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Re: Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter 

Post#70 » by GONYK » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:24 pm

BBALLER4FR wrote:Sorry for the delayed response, I had to pick up children from school but

Really man? What's it matter how much I've seen of him? I know he led the Chinese team to a championship. I know JR Smith and Kenyon Martin both came back to the states after being ousted early. So one could argue he is better than those 2 guys at this point in their careers (even though I wouldn't dare utter such nonsense - I'm just going by this years accompolishment.). I also know Marbury had a relatively injury free career and he always kept his body in tip top shape... more than can be said of Baron Davis. I also know from the clips I watched of Marbury on the Chinese team (a) his game/style/shooting looks exactly the same as it did 2 years ago and (b) he's able to get up the floor with ease at age 35. Look at Baron right now and tell me why you would even pose such a question. If we were throwing Billups out there right now instead of Baron/Bibby/Douglas this conversation wouldn't even exist. That's how bad our PG rotation is.

If Kenyon, JR Smith and Wilson Chandler can come back into the NBA after playing with such "inferior" talent and losing, than no one here should question if Marbury can still play in the NBA. If this were Iverson's Turkish team winning the championship everybody would be sold on Iverson returning. But now all the detractors can flame Marbury some more and the only people who get grilled are the guys with a non-mob mentality about Marbury.


JR Smith and Kenyon Martin didn't invest themselves in playing for China, because it was just a way to make money until they can resume their NBA careers. Marbury is fully invested in his Chinese career.

And don't put inferior in quotes like its not true. China is nowhere near the NBA in terms of competition. That is undeniable. JR Smith and Wilson regularly dropping 40 is enough of an indicator of that. To say Marbury is better than a guy who was the starting PG for the NBA champions last year because of clips you saw on youtube is ridiculous to me.

And if Iverson's team won the Turkish championship, I still wouldn't care. There is no competition like NBA competition, and it is all that matters. You might was well tell me Iverson is tearing up the Chicago Pro-Am.

All I know is that Baron Davis has been playing NBA ball for the last few years at a decent level, and Marbs hasn't. I don't know if Marbury could produce in the NBA anymore, but I have no doubt that Baron Davis, or any player who has consistently played in the NBA, can produce in China.
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Re: Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter 

Post#71 » by Retired_Doc » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:31 pm

makeitstop wrote:This was actually settled, by Marbs himself, a couple of weeks ago.

Someone asked him if he'd want to return to the Knicks. His reply:

Mr. Marbury hails from Coney Island, and the Spike Lee basketball film, “He Got Game,” was partly filmed there at his childhood courts at O’Dwyer Gardens. But his separation from the Knicks was less than pleasant, and on Sunday he tweeted that he would never again play for the team — “not at GUNPOINT.”


I'll take that as a no. :lol:


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Re: Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter 

Post#72 » by AllanHoustonFan » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:31 pm

GONYK wrote:
BBALLER4FR wrote:Sorry for the delayed response, I had to pick up children from school but

Really man? What's it matter how much I've seen of him? I know he led the Chinese team to a championship. I know JR Smith and Kenyon Martin both came back to the states after being ousted early. So one could argue he is better than those 2 guys at this point in their careers (even though I wouldn't dare utter such nonsense - I'm just going by this years accompolishment.). I also know Marbury had a relatively injury free career and he always kept his body in tip top shape... more than can be said of Baron Davis. I also know from the clips I watched of Marbury on the Chinese team (a) his game/style/shooting looks exactly the same as it did 2 years ago and (b) he's able to get up the floor with ease at age 35. Look at Baron right now and tell me why you would even pose such a question. If we were throwing Billups out there right now instead of Baron/Bibby/Douglas this conversation wouldn't even exist. That's how bad our PG rotation is.

If Kenyon, JR Smith and Wilson Chandler can come back into the NBA after playing with such "inferior" talent and losing, than no one here should question if Marbury can still play in the NBA. If this were Iverson's Turkish team winning the championship everybody would be sold on Iverson returning. But now all the detractors can flame Marbury some more and the only people who get grilled are the guys with a non-mob mentality about Marbury.


JR Smith and Kenyon Martin didn't invest themselves in playing for China, because it was just a way to make money until they can resume their NBA careers. Marbury is fully invested in his Chinese career.

And don't put inferior in quotes like its not true. China is nowhere near the NBA in terms of competition. That is undeniable. JR Smith and Wilson regularly dropping 40 is enough of an indicator of that. To say Marbury is better than a guy who was the starting PG for the NBA champions last year because of clips you saw on youtube is ridiculous to me.

And if Iverson's team won the Turkish championship, I still wouldn't care. There is no competition like NBA competition, and it is all that matters. You might was well tell me Iverson is tearing up the Chicago Pro-Am.

All I know is that Baron Davis has been playing NBA ball for the last few years at a decent level, and Marbs hasn't. I don't know if Marbury could produce in the NBA anymore, but I have no doubt that Baron Davis, or any player who has consistently played in the NBA, can produce in China.


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Re: Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter 

Post#73 » by BernardKing » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:32 pm

JoseChinga wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPxegzjaRwo[/youtube]


Only one part of that interview is actually worth watching:
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Re: Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter 

Post#74 » by BBALLER4FR » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:19 am

GONYK wrote:
JR Smith and Kenyon Martin didn't invest themselves in playing for China, because it was just a way to make money until they can resume their NBA careers. Marbury is fully invested in his Chinese career.


Cool. Then you've made the decision easier. I'll take the guy who invested himself in bringing his team to something great. If you want to label him a scrub than WTF does that make the 2 guys who only went there to kill time? Too many people talking both ways here. You can't label Marbury as a scrub then casually talk Kenyon and JR's performance as "they just didn't want to invest in China". How the heck does Marbury still get marginalized while everyone else get justified?

Marbury showed that without the distractions and the agenda's and with support from your fans he could lead a team to a championship (maybe not the level of team you like, but a team nonetheless which is more than Deron, Iverson and any other non NBA championship, super player has done overseas). With all the garbage this team had on the roster you'd think maybe, just maybe the Knicks fans would say: "Damn! He did that with a crappy Chinese team. Shame D'Antoni didn't give him a chance. Shame Brown was acting foolish." Nope. It's the same Marbury jokes.

GONYK wrote:And don't put inferior in quotes like its not true. China is nowhere near the NBA in terms of competition. That is undeniable. JR Smith and Wilson regularly dropping 40 is enough of an indicator of that. To say Marbury is better than a guy who was the starting PG for the NBA champions last year because of clips you saw on youtube is ridiculous to me.


So dropping 40 is all that matters? OK if those teams are truly inferior(minus the quotes) than how is it Marbury led inferior talent to a championship while superior talent like Chandler and Smith pouring out 40's gets them nada? I mean Kenyon Martin is "One Bad Yellow MothaFukka" right? That makes him the best player (not PF, PLAYER) on his team and he still goes home early. Again, I don't see where you've made your point.

GONYK wrote:All I know is that Baron Davis has been playing NBA ball for the last few years at a decent level, and Marbs hasn't. I don't know if Marbury could produce in the NBA anymore, but I have no doubt that Baron Davis, or any player who has consistently played in the NBA, can produce in China.


You kidding me? Baron Davis was playing for the $hitty Clippers and the friggin Cavs when he was looking decent (and missing games I might add). If Marbury wanted he could have started on both those teams. And looking at Baron Davis right now, how can you say "I have no doubt that Baron Davis can produce in China"? And nevermind if he can play in China, The question is: could Baron Davis lead team China to a championship? You can't definitively say YES. In fact, given the result of Kenyon/Chandler/JR Smith's (All better than Baron at this stage in the game), the answer more than likely points to NO.
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Re: Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter 

Post#75 » by dantian » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:55 am

JoseChinga wrote:Marbury is the best shape of his life right now, he's extremely conditioned to an elite level and so is his mind. He would be a more quality option than Baron Davis who looks like a snail on the court...he's close to retirement...I mean even Derek Fisher moves better than this guy. How much you have to be in denial to understand Davis is DONE? A rookie SG has taken over the PG duties because Davis can't deliver. Marbury is actually a good option here.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPxegzjaRwo[/youtube]

The problem with simple minded Knick fans is that they have a really hard time thinking for themselves and can't see logic in a lot of situations with the team. They tend to follow the media's propaganda and fly with it. So they'll believe Marbury was a cancer

when the truth is Stephon Marbury was never the problem in New

Peep out this article because I don't have time to explain it all.

?Cartoon Character?

?King of Fools?

?He is a loser?.

These were some of the early media descriptions of Stephon Marbury after he parted ways with the Knicks to join the Celtics. If Marbury is a ?cartoon character?, we can thank our sports media for drawing the daily comic strip. For those innocent souls who have so mistakenly bought into the cartoon journalism, then... "You Don't Know Marbury"!

If he is also a ?loser?, we can thank a misleading media once again [1]. We are told how his former teams improved ?after he left?, but not that those overall rosters also improved [2]. Sure, after two playoff appearances with Minnesota, Marbury would play on many losing teams. But how often have we read how those same rosters fared without Marbury?

41% - winning % of his games after leaving Minnesota 29% - winning % (62-152) of those teams in his absence [3].

Translation: Marbury has played on some god-awful teams!?

But that?s a whole other article about the ?Evan Eschmeyer Era?? This article is about this:

Stephon Xavier Marbury is the most mismanaged, miscoached, and misunderstood Knick talent that I have ever seen [4].

Please allow Bill Simmons to warm us up:

?As a basketball fan, I can't fathom why the Clippers would sign Baron [Davis] then bog him down in a half-court offense. It's like hiring Simon Cowell to judge a reality show then preventing him from being mean.? ? Bill Simmons

As a basketball fan, I know exactly how you feel Bill. And welcome to Marbury-land Baron, and sorry about your shooting drop from 43% to 36%. Maybe one day coach Dunleavy will allow you to call your own plays again like Nellie once did. Maybe he will also break up that clogged Clipper frontcourt next year. Or maybe your next four years will be just like Steph?s last four. Let?s hope not?

Much has been written about Marbury?s feuds with past coaches, and everyone has an opinion [4]. However, this analysis is strictly X?s and O?s. It?s time for some real basketball questions:

1) Why would you start line-ups that minimize or eliminate the exceptional skills of your best player?

2) How can you justify taking the ball out of the hands of your best point guard?

3) How on mother earth does an elite ?penetrate-and-dish? point guard go his entire career without playing alongside top 3-point shooters?? or even just good ones?

Before answering these questions let?s first revisit our main Knick characters. No, not current Knick coach Mike D?Antoni. His inexplicable benching of Marbury was simply the culmination of coaching that Larry Brown started and Isiah Thomas perfected. Brown and Thomas were once former all-star point-guards in the ABA and NBA. Instead of coaching Stephon according to his strengths, each coached him to THEIR strengths. The only Knick coach that ever grasped Marbury?s exceptional skills was that other former all-star point guard: Lenny Wilkens.

Stephon and His Knick Coaches

Stephon: Marbury?s success begins with his ability to penetrate, draw double-teams, score, or find the open man on a crisp kick out. He is not a ?pure point guard? in the mold of Jason Kidd or Steve Nash, but resembles that third all-star PG on that 1996 Suns team: Kevin Johnson. Just like KJ, Marbury could destroy his man off the dribble; use his strength; finish strong; pass; get to the line; run the fast break well; and excel at running tightly executed pick-and-rolls, and pick-and-pops. This type of point-guard is usually maximized with one strong low-post threat, floor-spacing shooters (more than slashers), and two ?dirty-work? guys who don?t need the ball. While KJ would consistently have players that complemented his strengths [5]. Marbury?s post-Minnesota career would be the exact opposite.

Lenny ? Right Coach, Wrong Talent: All-time wins leader Wilkens was hired in January 2004 just days after trading for Marbury. At the time GM Isiah said Lenny was ?the perfect person? to coach Stephon, and he was right. Prior to Steph?s arrival, this old slow Knicks team was 14 -21, and its only top player (Allan Houston) had bum knees and a pending retirement. Enter instant turnaround. Marbury and Wilkens would lead the team to a 25 ? 22 finish and into the playoffs while averaging 20 points and 9.3 assists. The following year, Stephon would average 22 points and 8.1 assists with an efficient 46% shooting. Because the team won only 33 games, Marbury?s greatest career season went unnoticed on a squad that had no business winning 23. With the exception of fast breaks, Wilkens would harness all of Marbury?s strengths. However, Isiah would fire him at midseason, leaving him with a 40-41 record as a Knicks coach (succeeded by Herb Williams).

Larry ? Young Talent, Wrong Coach: Brown arrived to NYC with a special media moniker never afforded to Wilkens: ?Hall-of-Fame Coach?. The shield title ? repeated ad nauseum ? had a distinct purpose: ?Larry Brown was always right.? Just check the resume. Unlike Wilkens, Pat Riley, and other great coaches, Brown is a great coach like Jack Nicholson is a great actor ? he only plays one role. Seasoned veterans? Brown might land a championship. Young players? Brown might blow an Olympic gold medal [6]. Brown decided to forget coaching that season in favor of his mantra to ?play the right way? ? even if that way meant losing. ?Play the right way? was much more than a phrase -- it was a stand. It symbolized a basketball, generational, and racial ?culture war? where everyone took a side. Where Wilkens saw amazing talent worth harnessing, Brown saw a point guard who did not play the position ?the right way?. So Brown basically tried to turn him into Eric Snow. An often mechanical looking Marbury would post career low stats, and Brown would produce a 23-59 record.

Isiah ? Best Talent, Wrong Coach: After inheriting possibly the worst roster in NBA history (no hyperbole), Isiah received brutally unfair criticism for his tenure as Knicks GM. That criticism should have been reserved for Isiah the coach. His famous benching of Marbury would overshadow his dysfunctional starting line-ups, head-scratching substitution patterns, and few set plays beyond ?can Jamal or Nate take his man off the dribble??. After an adequate first year (33-49) that involved key injuries, the second year was like watching ball at Rucker Park ? except with fewer team assists. Finishing where Larry started, Thomas would render Marbury useless.

CRIME #1: LINE-UP LUNACY - From 42 to 45

Lenny: The 2004 turnaround was a remarkable feat considering that year?s most common starting line-up was 1) Marbury; 2) Shandon Anderson; 3) Tim Thomas; 4) Kurt Thomas; 5) Nazr Mohammed. While most were usually bench players for other teams, together with Marbury, the Thomas-Thomas-Mohammed frontline was 30-31 over two seasons. Tim could still help spread the floor, Kurt brought gritty defense and his best season of rebounding, and Nazr would play his finest ball in his career. Marbury was particularly efficient at running 15-foot ?pick and pops? with teammates like Kurt, Nazr, and Keith Van Horn (before Nazr). He even made Michael Doleac look good. Was this frontline talented? No. Good floor balance? Yes. The entire frontline would soon be traded traded for long-term benefit [7].

Larry: Mad scientist Brown would: start a front-line of shot vets over promising youngsters; give no steady minute patterns; and set an NBA record with 42 line-ups. That year?s lone bright spot brought a 6-game winning streak where Marbury started alongside rookies Nate Robinson and David Lee. The latter two would soon find themselves into Brown?s infamous rookie doghouse, out of the starting line-up, and receiving 30 or three minutes on any given night. Lee, in particular, would be underutilized by both Brown and Thomas. That year, Marbury?s injuries would leave the Knicks 5-17 without him. If Larry could never make up his mind about line-ups, Isiah could never change his.

Isiah: Starting Marbury alongside a 5-scorer line-up is absurd. Starting Eddy Curry and Zach Randolph together is absurd. Starting a can?t-shoot-unrecovered-from-surgery Q Richardson is absurd. Doing all of the above requires a new word? Don?t spread the floor. Check. Clog up the middle. Check. Eliminate point-guard penetration. Check. Eliminate ball movement. Check. Duplicate defensive liabilities. Check. Blame it all on your point guard. Check? Despite plenty of better fits on the bench, Isiah would not break Eddy-Zach-Q frontline for four months! The Knicks would get crushed every first quarter, but magically play teams even in the 2nd quarter (check the stats). If the number 42 is Brown?s Knick coaching legacy, Isiah?s should be 45: the amount of games that Eddy-Zach-Q started together.

Stephon: Eddy-Zach joined the Marbury-Steve Francis backcourt as Isiah?s second disastrous starting pair. Injuries had robbed Francis of his once great athleticism, but not his head-down-ball-stopping style. In 2006 the Knicks rolled out to a 7-14 record before Isiah decided to bench Francis. For the next 41 games or half-a-season Marbury and Eddy Curry would lead the Knicks to a 21-19 record before injuries to Lee, Jamal, and Q would end their playoff hopes (and bring return of Francis as starter). The young team was running, exciting, and even losing heart breakers with passion. The media would often credit Marbury?s suddenly new ?leadership?, or claim that the December 2006 fight with Denver ?brought the team together?. The truth? A simple line-up change. In 2005-2006:

Marbury with Francis: 12 points on 38% shooting

Marbury w/o Francis: 18 points on 44% shooting

During this same time, Eddy Curry?s dominance would also rise. Marbury ? starving for an inside presence since his Suns playoff year with rookie Amare Stoudemire was more than happy to play second-fiddle. By that summer Stephon would say:

?This is Eddy Curry's team, not Steph's team. This is Eddy Curry's team, and we all have to understand that.?

CRIME #2: COACHING CRAZINESS - Jamal is Not A Point Guard!

By 2007-2008, it was neither Eddy nor Steph?s team ? it was Jamal?s team. Crawford?s ankle-breaking crossover, and monthly career game scoring outbursts often worked to seduce fans into thinking one-night-stands might ever become true love. Coupled with his mature off court demeanor and poised interviews, it also seemed to work on his coaches. It seemed as if one play was called in any close game: Jamal-take-man-off-dribble-from-top-of-key. The play calling became so ludicrous that one game the Knicks would lose in overtime as Crawford missed his final 12 shots including the final three taken in regulation. Such an instance is symbolic of both Isiah?s and Larry?s coaching of Crawford. There was none.

Worst of all, both coaches also decided that Marbury share ball-handling duties with Jamal as was once done with Francis. Insanity? Let?s start here.

Marbury Assists Per Game:

9.0 - under Lenny

6.4 - under Larry

5.3 - under Isiah

In Stephon?s first two years under Lenny, the Knicks averaged more than 20 assists per game despite inferior team talent. Under Larry (17.9) and Isiah (18.7) the Knicks were dead last in NBA assists. Transferring partial point-guard duties did not just hurt Stephon ? it hurt the Knicks. Having Jamal bring the ball up meant less team assists, less ball movement, less-fatigued opponents, and less wins. On the plus side, Jamal did throw nice alley-oops to Curry. On the down side, Jamal is a low percentage shooter, is a poor finisher near the rim, does not get to the line much, and can barely run the pick-and-roll. Most importantly, he doesn?t draw double-teams on his drives. Jamal can only break down his man, but Marbury can break down team defenses.

By last year, the combination of crazy line-ups, reduced ball-handling, and even the abandonment of two-man pick plays [8] would make Marbury more liability than asset. The coaching of Thomas and Brown was so perplexing that fan theories of sabotage were just as likely as coach incompetence. The most benign explanation just might be this: Marbury as a ball dominating point guard offended Brown?s ?pure-point-guard? sensibilities, and Isiah could never accept that the double-point backcourt just might fail if the other guy isn?t named Joe Dumars.

CRIME #3: MANAGEMENT MANGLING - Where are the 3-Point Shooters?

In sports it?s like peanut butter and jelly. Pair a great quarterback with a great wide-receiver (sorry Donovan); get a great hitter some back-up protection (sorry Barry), and get an elite ?drive-and-dish? point guard some 3-point shooters.

With a one year exception of Kerry Kittles (Nets), Marbury never started alongside another sharp-shooting guard. Beyond one season, his best two 3-point shooters were forwards Keith Van Horn (Nets), and Shawn Marion (Suns) ? neither of whom could shoot prior to his arrival. In his two full seasons with Stephon, Marion would shoot 39% from behind the arc, but never higher than 34% in any other season despite playing with both Kidd and Nash.

The minute he arrived to the Knicks, Marbury?s drives to the hoop had amazing results. Spreading the floor widened Marbury?s penetration lanes, and in-turn, his ability to break down defenses aided those shooters right back. Stephon?s kick-outs often began an ?around the horn? passing sequence that resulted in no assist, but three points. As a result, every single Knicks long range shooter benefited:

3-Point Shooting Before and After Marbury Trade (2003-2004 season):

Allan Houston: 38% to 51%

Keith Van Horn: 31% to 46%

Tim Thomas: 36% to 41%

Shandon Anderson: 24% to 34%

It is amazing what can happen when a hand is removed from one?s face! Sadly, Houston would only get to play 38 total games with Marbury, and the Knicks would never sign a top long-range shooter after him [9]. That no GM actively and deliberately sought to spread the floor for Marbury is a crime of NBA management.

Perhaps it was because so few could see through awful rosters, the villainizing journalism, and their own ?pure point guard? biases to realize that:

Stephon makes his teammates better.

It just has to be the right teammates.

No, he won?t make Crawford better. Jamal, reliant only on his crossover, will shoot 41% with the Bulls, the Knicks, the Warriors, or the Showtime Lakers. No, he won?t make Randolph better. Zach will get his 20 whether Stephon, Baron, or Mardy Collins throws that entry pass. And he definitely won?t make Steve Francis better? But he made the entire 2004 Knicks much better. During the few glimpses of sensible line-ups, he also made Eddy Curry, Channing Frye, David Lee, and Nate Robinson better. A prime Marbury would not just make the currently constructed Orlando Magic better, but possibly champions. Ditto for a younger Allan Houston coupled with an older Ewing.

Sorry Larry, there are no ?right ways? to play the point, just ?right systems?. Says Marbury?s newest coach and former point guard Doc Rivers: ?I never thought he was a pure point guard?. Nor does he care, even if Marbury has lost a step.

This is just how it goes with point guards. High-flyers like Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson, and Kenyon Martin will thrive under Jason Kidd ? but Josh Howard won?t. Steve Nash goes from a borderline all-star to a borderline Hall-of-Famer -- just by changing his coach. Gary Payton (at any age) goes from an all-star to bum should you reduce him to a spot-up shooter role in a triangle offense. Styles make fights, styles make perceptions, and when misunderstood by media -- styles make villains. But?

What if Joe Dumars spent his whole career with the Pistons cast that averaged 24 wins in back-to-back seasons from 93-95?

What if John Stockton was told to be great, but just forget that whole ?pick-and-roll? thing?

What if Baron Davis never gets to runs the break or drive to the hoop again?

And if a player like Stephon Marbury can reach a .500 plateau with the right system and the wrong talent, what could he have done if equipped with both?

These are the real questions we should be asking. Even if it might take away from our favorite ?cartoon character?.

Notes:

[1] Marbury?s rookie season helped bring the Timberwolves a 14-game improvement and first-ever playoff berth, but his departure began the ?selfish? label. In New Jersey, a ?loser? label was added, but few reminders that he joined a 3-16 squad. His Suns experience would not be defined by the respectable 2003 playoff showing, but their poor start the following injury-plagued year. Despite averaging over eight assists per game, all of the above would contribute to a ?Marbury-as-selfish? narrative before playing a single Knick game.

[2] Marbury's old teams were followed by the era?s best two point guards, but few reports that Jason Kidd and Steve Nash also received vastly improved rosters. The Nets did not just receive Kidd, but had Kerry Kittles return from injury, had Kenyon Martin move past rookie year growing pains, and drafted Richard Jefferson. The Suns actually got worse after Marbury left. The following year they signed Nash, had Amare return past his second year injuries, and had a maturing Joe Johnson. By comparing Marbury?s tenure to overhauled rosters, Steve Nash is also loser because his Dallas Mavericks team went to the finals ?after he left?.

[3] The 29% winning percentage takes into account his games missed due to injuries and how his past/new teams fared without him from the two midseason trades. Marbury?s winning totals while playing: New Jersey (66-106), Phoenix (92-105), and New York (113-174). Winning totals in Marbury?s absence: Nets (7-35); Suns (17-32); Knicks (38-85).

[4] A friend tells me of Marbury?s coaching feuds: ?if you get into five car accidents, then you are a bad driver!? This makes sense on the surface, but is overly simplistic. Marbury is not blameless by any stretch, but he is both perpetrator and victim. Firstly, Marbury?s last three coaches (D?Antoni, Thomas, Brown) all have their own share of car accidents (Brown?s license should have been revoke 20 years ago!). More accurately, Marbury is that kid with a past felony on his record and cops know full well that they could treat him any way they choose while receiving immunity. His last three coaches all knowingly took advantage of this power dynamic in initiating unfair treatment while Marbury?s reactions to feeling wronged would often help their cause.

[5] After trading for KJ in 1988, the Suns soon signed a big man complement in all-star Tom Chambers. KJ would run the pick-and-roll all day and night with Chambers when not driving-and-dishing to sharp-shooters like Hornacek and Eddie Johnson. Those latter two names marked an entire career that featured two long-range marksmen (also Dan Majerle, Danny Ainge, Wesley Person, Rex Chapman, etc) for KJ to spread the floor. In a couple of years, the Suns would sign Charles Barkley and go from a perennial playoff team to legitimate title contenders.

[6] After winning a championship with the Detroit Pistons , Brown would fail to win the Olympic Gold medal. Most notably, he would leave a young Lebron James and Carmelo Anthony on the bench while Lamar Odom and Richard Jefferson logged heavy minutes.

[7] Seeking youth and athleticism, Isiah soon traded the entire frontline in what eventually netted David Lee, Nate Robinson, Eddy Curry, and Wilson Chandler.

[8] Isiah virtually abandoned the pick play in favor of one-on-one play by his second year. Gone was Channing Frye?s floor-spacing an occasional pick-and-pops, and in came Zach ? the starting line-ups third ball-stopping vacuum. Like Eddy, Zach is only effective for a team as the only low post presence. Marbury was essentially reduced to throwing entry passes ? and not very good ones at that.

[9] In Brown and Isiah?s tenure, the best 3-point shooter would be Nate Robinson, but he and Marbury would rarely play together ? presumably for defensive reasons. When not bothered by his back injuries, Quentin Richardson is still only an adequate shooter.



Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/src_featur ... z1rq0SO700


Great read!
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Re: Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter 

Post#76 » by dantian » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:00 am

BBALLER4FR wrote:
Sprewell4Three wrote:
BBALLER4FR wrote:What is wrong with some of you guys? Everybody was shouting "Savior!" from the rooftops for Baron Davis. If you can honestly say that right now you'd prefer watching this 32 year old version of Baron Davis starting over this 35 year old version of Stephon Marbury you're nuts. Maybe Jeremy Lin is the future of the Knicks but it's not set in stone with Melo here. And that's nothing to do with Melo's effort but more to do with the night and day production you get from him with vs. with Lin and Amare on the floor. Marbury (if he wanted to come back) would be relatively cheap, is always healthy and he still plays at a very high level. Better than Kidd, Davis, Bibby, Fisher or any other veteran PG around his age. I would take Marbury 100 times right now of Baron Davis.



It doesn't matter what Marbury can do for this team on the court. He brings too much baggage. The team doesn't need this media frenzy right now. I don't understand why some of you guys can't just move on? Nobody in the NBA has signed Marbury since his Celtic days. Yet for some ridiculous reason we still have Knicks fans that think Marbury can be a positive addition lol..


Isiah brought baggage. Larry Brown brought baggage. Mike D'Antoni brought baggage. James Dolan has baggage. They all chose to have Marbury carry it for them. You strip away every one of those guys and Marbury is a success in NY. Getting rid of Marbury didn't fix our problems. Getting rid of coaches/GM's who had baggage is what helped us.


True dat!
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Re: Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter 

Post#77 » by dantian » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:11 am

BBALLER4FR wrote:
GONYK wrote:
JR Smith and Kenyon Martin didn't invest themselves in playing for China, because it was just a way to make money until they can resume their NBA careers. Marbury is fully invested in his Chinese career.


Cool. Then you've made the decision easier. I'll take the guy who invested himself in bringing his team to something great. If you want to label him a scrub than WTF does that make the 2 guys who only went there to kill time? Too many people talking both ways here. You can't label Marbury as a scrub then casually talk Kenyon and JR's performance as "they just didn't want to invest in China". How the heck does Marbury still get marginalized while everyone else get justified?

Marbury showed that without the distractions and the agenda's and with support from your fans he could lead a team to a championship (maybe not the level of team you like, but a team nonetheless which is more than Deron, Iverson and any other non NBA championship, super player has done overseas). With all the garbage this team had on the roster you'd think maybe, just maybe the Knicks fans would say: "Damn! He did that with a crappy Chinese team. Shame D'Antoni didn't give him a chance. Shame Brown was acting foolish." Nope. It's the same Marbury jokes.

GONYK wrote:And don't put inferior in quotes like its not true. China is nowhere near the NBA in terms of competition. That is undeniable. JR Smith and Wilson regularly dropping 40 is enough of an indicator of that. To say Marbury is better than a guy who was the starting PG for the NBA champions last year because of clips you saw on youtube is ridiculous to me.


So dropping 40 is all that matters? OK if those teams are truly inferior(minus the quotes) than how is it Marbury led inferior talent to a championship while superior talent like Chandler and Smith pouring out 40's gets them nada? I mean Kenyon Martin is "One Bad Yellow MothaFukka" right? That makes him the best player (not PF, PLAYER) on his team and he still goes home early. Again, I don't see where you've made your point.

GONYK wrote:All I know is that Baron Davis has been playing NBA ball for the last few years at a decent level, and Marbs hasn't. I don't know if Marbury could produce in the NBA anymore, but I have no doubt that Baron Davis, or any player who has consistently played in the NBA, can produce in China.


You kidding me? Baron Davis was playing for the $hitty Clippers and the friggin Cavs when he was looking decent (and missing games I might add). If Marbury wanted he could have started on both those teams. And looking at Baron Davis right now, how can you say "I have no doubt that Baron Davis can produce in China"? And nevermind if he can play in China, The question is: could Baron Davis lead team China to a championship? You can't definitively say YES. In fact, given the result of Kenyon/Chandler/JR Smith's (All better than Baron at this stage in the game), the answer more than likely points to NO.


Actually, Marbury had the option to join the perennial champion (7 titles in previous 8 seasons) Guangdong they dethroned which also had Aaron Brooks in their finals' match. Beijing was a marginal one-and-down playoff team when he joined them. Without his investing a lot of energy to help his teammates grow and perform at the highest level of their lives, they had no chance at all. In fact, replacing Marbury with any NBA point guard but without similar 'investment', Beijing wouldn't have won it.
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Re: Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter 

Post#78 » by dantian » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:31 am

GONYK wrote:
I agree, but there is no proof Marbury is better than Bibby or Douglas, as weird as that sounds, since he's playing in China and nobody has seen him up against NBA comp in years.


He outplayed Aaron Brooks who would be a starting PG in NBA in the finals of CBA. Not just in numbers but mostly on impact and clutch. Suns GM Babby witnessed the last 3 games there and changed his opinion on Marbury from 'washouts' to 'can be competitive in NBA'. In comparison, Brooks were as good or as bad as he was the year ago.

If anything, Marbury proved he was a team player with heart.
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Re: Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter 

Post#79 » by blueNorange » Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:23 am

anyone else hoping starbury1 makes a surprise cameo?
LOL Y U MAD THO?
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mitchell robinson has blocked zion williamson 3 times as of 7/6/19.
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Re: Asked Stephon Marbury To Come Back To Knicks via Twitter 

Post#80 » by GONYK » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:34 am

BBALLER4FR wrote:
GONYK wrote:
JR Smith and Kenyon Martin didn't invest themselves in playing for China, because it was just a way to make money until they can resume their NBA careers. Marbury is fully invested in his Chinese career.


Cool. Then you've made the decision easier. I'll take the guy who invested himself in bringing his team to something great. If you want to label him a scrub than WTF does that make the 2 guys who only went there to kill time? Too many people talking both ways here. You can't label Marbury as a scrub then casually talk Kenyon and JR's performance as "they just didn't want to invest in China". How the heck does Marbury still get marginalized while everyone else get justified?

Marbury showed that without the distractions and the agenda's and with support from your fans he could lead a team to a championship (maybe not the level of team you like, but a team nonetheless which is more than Deron, Iverson and any other non NBA championship, super player has done overseas). With all the garbage this team had on the roster you'd think maybe, just maybe the Knicks fans would say: "Damn! He did that with a crappy Chinese team. Shame D'Antoni didn't give him a chance. Shame Brown was acting foolish." Nope. It's the same Marbury jokes.

GONYK wrote:And don't put inferior in quotes like its not true. China is nowhere near the NBA in terms of competition. That is undeniable. JR Smith and Wilson regularly dropping 40 is enough of an indicator of that. To say Marbury is better than a guy who was the starting PG for the NBA champions last year because of clips you saw on youtube is ridiculous to me.


So dropping 40 is all that matters? OK if those teams are truly inferior(minus the quotes) than how is it Marbury led inferior talent to a championship while superior talent like Chandler and Smith pouring out 40's gets them nada? I mean Kenyon Martin is "One Bad Yellow MothaFukka" right? That makes him the best player (not PF, PLAYER) on his team and he still goes home early. Again, I don't see where you've made your point.

GONYK wrote:All I know is that Baron Davis has been playing NBA ball for the last few years at a decent level, and Marbs hasn't. I don't know if Marbury could produce in the NBA anymore, but I have no doubt that Baron Davis, or any player who has consistently played in the NBA, can produce in China.


You kidding me? Baron Davis was playing for the $hitty Clippers and the friggin Cavs when he was looking decent (and missing games I might add). If Marbury wanted he could have started on both those teams. And looking at Baron Davis right now, how can you say "I have no doubt that Baron Davis can produce in China"? And nevermind if he can play in China, The question is: could Baron Davis lead team China to a championship? You can't definitively say YES. In fact, given the result of Kenyon/Chandler/JR Smith's (All better than Baron at this stage in the game), the answer more than likely points to NO.


Bro, what are you talking about? Who cares what a player won in China. JR Smith and Kenyon Martin didn't give a sh*t. They have real careers in the NBA.


The question was never can Baron Davis win a championship in China. It was whether Marbury can still play in the NBA. A championship in China doesn't mean jack. The level of comp is probably not even on par with the D-League. Nothing that happens outside of the NBA matters in the context of comparing players who are in the NBA. Leading a team to a ring in a league where 99.9% of the players aren't even good enough to make it onto NBA summer league rosters doesn't mean you are now NBA worthy.

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