debunking the injury prone theory

[snaquille oatmeal]

ok so I'm in the gb and read a post that tries to tell us how silly we are for putting too much value into Bynum because "as every body know" he is injury prone and has never played a full season. this assumption has never sat well with me so I'm trying to remember if bynum in fact has played a full season or at least been available a full season. the answer yes.

he was available to play his rookie season for all 82 games, but Phil didn't play him all 82. injury prone?

he played 82 games sophomore year. injury prone?

third season has freak accident with Lamar while playing against Memphis. injury prone?

fourth season has freak accident with Kobe while playing against Memphis. injury prone?

fifth season Bynum injures knee against the thunder in the first round of the playoff. injury prone?

sixth season recovery takes longer than expected and he misses the early part of season. no injury that season. injury prone?

seventh season no injuries. injury prone?

so basically he has had 3 significant injuries in 7 years. it has only affected him in 3 1/2 seasons. his so called structural issues have not been a problem since high school yet when it comes to injury prone players he is up there with Oden and Bill Walton. wtf? is he really injury prone or just has a bad rep. if anything Kobe is the injury prone one. that guy goes through injuries like a teen age boys goes through happy socks.

[Dr Aki]

lets define our terms:

- injury proneness - is the risk of developing injuries. structual abnormalities are what you would term a systematic issue or a systematic variable
- bad luck - self-explanatory, is placed under the category random issues or random variables
- severity - is level at which an injury affects a player's ability to play effective basketball
- hardiness - is the ability to play at an acceptable level DESPITE having an injury (within reason).

what bynum has are structural issues that lead to a systematic increase in injury proneness. it is the 2 factors of being injury prone AND having bad luck that has led to games missed. bynum's injuries have led to 2 severely shortened seasons and one postseason where his effectiveness dropped off, hence bynum isn't particularly hardy.

the problem with oden and bill walton are that their structural issues compromise their knees/back to the extent that they simply cannot play at any valuable level without hurting their teams and their abilities to become healthy again

kobe stacks injuries at a decent rate. however, his injuries are such that he can still play and play at an acceptable level. ie, kobe is:
- injury prone
- has good luck (in that the severity of injuries he acquires doesn't stop him from playing)
- is hard, being the hard mofo that he is

whereas bynum would be:
- injury prone
- has bad luck
- not particularly hardy

and oden/walton would be:
- injury prone
- have bad luck
- not hardy one bit

and a ironman comparison; dwight:
- not injury prone at all
- has good luck
- TBD, seeing as dwight seems to never get injured

or a fun example; lebron
- not injury prone
- has good luck
- not particularly hardy, sprained ring finger on off-dribbling arm and "injured" elbow and all

[Edrees]

The only reason he missed the beginning of last season is because he waited until Aug 30 or something to get surgery - a week before the pre season began. Had nothing to do with slow recovery.

[Dr Aki]

The only reason he missed the beginning of last season is because he waited until Aug 30 or something to get surgery - a week before the pre season began. Had nothing to do with slow recovery.

but that incident doesnt preclude the fact bynum returned from his 2nd significant injury (2009) behind schedule (remember he was supposed to have ~14 games under his belt before the POs started) and only ended getting only 4 games before the POs.

it was a lucky thing pau played out of his mind, especially in defending dwight in those 2009 finals

[kblo247]

Add in never played close to a full season of high school ball because of injuries

[Jetset]

Bynum is injury prone and this is something that everyone is going to have to accept if they haven't already. There have been multiple threads on this issue that apparently have gone anywhere or have done nothing, hopefully this is the last topic created on the matter. The difference as to why Howard is a truck and why Bynum could be viewed as injury prone in comparison is because Dwight hasn't had to carry around a lot of weight on his knees most of his life. According to Dwight and others, he was rail skinny growing up and had to work in a weight room to get to where he's at now. Bynum on the other hand has more than likely had to carry more weight on his knees than Dwight has over his life, which could lead to knee issues that Bynum has had (in high school) or knee issues down the road. Factor that in along with the fact that Bynum has already been diagnosed with an irregularity in his skeletal structure, so would it be to anyone's surprise that a player with an irregularity in his makeup could quite possibly be injury prone? Bynum is just too big for his own good.

And for anyone to say Bynum isn't injury prone or at least susceptible to injury goes against what Gary Vitti diagnosed Bynum as. And Vitti's been doing what he's doing for almost 30 years, so you'll have to excuse me if I choose to believe that man over what gets said here.

[Jetset]

Also, didn't Bynum suffer a meniscus injury? A meniscus effects the ability to absorb friction and force in the knee, I'm sure a 7 foot man would exert a lot of force running up and down a court on a nightly basis. And since because the meniscus is encased in the knee, blood flow cannot reach it. Therefore a meniscus injury can never heal and will more than likely cause other lingering effects of the knee. And before I get bombarded with how it happened, I don't care how it happened. It doesn't change the fact that his structurally damaged knee only adds to the other health odds he's facing. So if there are still a couple of you out there that think he isn't susceptible to injury or at least wasn't before the run-ins, well he is now.

[snaquille oatmeal]

I just don't buy 3 injuries in 7 years, two being freak accidents as injury prone.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dcXWZuTWDM[/youtube]

this is what injury prone means to me, getting injured often for no particular reason.

[Jetset]

I thought this would've already been settled when he went down earlier this season. I don't know what to tell you if you don't believe a person that happens to protect his knee with a knee pad, still goes down with an injury to that said knee is not susceptible to injury. There's no logical way to explain that. The only way you even possibly begin to explain it is if you were to argue it's the knee pad not doing it's job, and what may work for one person may not work for another. Which is true, but holds no bearing in this matter because in the offseason Bynum had a custom made knee pad specifically made for his knee and to reduce the chances of an injury.

Bynum's done all he can do, he's strengthened the muscles around his knees, wears a knee pad which sole purpose is to protect his knee more so than an average knee pad and he still goes down. I don't know what more you need, Snaq.

And I want you all to be real on this issue. If Bynum were drafted by a team other than the Lakers and had went through all the stuff he's gone through on another team, you all would be calling him injury prone. And don't even say you wouldn't. This is a classic case of a fanbase defending it's players, even when we're wrong. And every fan of every fanbase is at fault of this at times, which is fine and totally understandable because he's on the team we root for so it's only natural that we choose to look at the positives. But reality also needs to be taken into consideration, and the reality is that Bynum is susceptible to injury.

[snaquille oatmeal]

Jetty I defend Bynum against accusations of not playing an entire season because of injuries when that is simply not true. it is on that basis that I have to resist to put the injury prone label on Drew. like I said 3 injuries in 7 years 2 being freak accidents does not make a players injury prone in my eyes.

[Jetset]

So putting whether or not he's played a full season or not aside, are you willing to agree that Bynum is susceptible to injury?

[Gek]

The only part of him that is currently susceptible to injury is the part of him that was previously injured as a result of freak accidents and immaturity/ignorance in the importance of physical condition. Bynum would have been MUCH better off going to college.

[Jetset]

All of that is true, and you left the part out about Bynum being diagnosed with a skeletal irregularity. Unless you just dismissed that on purpose.

[Gek]

Have a link to what it is? We all have skeletal irregularity/birth defects, not sure on the severity of his.

[Jetset]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1184609/2/index.htm

And it's a lot to read but here's an excerpt:

Trainers learned that Bynum underwent his first knee operation when he was 12 and were concerned about his Q angle—the relationship between his pelvis, leg and foot. According to head athletic trainer Gary Vitti, a wide Q angle can affect the way the kneecap glides along the thigh bone and can also cause increased foot pronation, both common sources of injuries. "Andrew is challenged in terms of his skeleton," Vitti says. "But we can work with those issues to some degree. What you can't do is take someone with a normal Q angle and make him 7 feet, 285 pounds."

[snaquille oatmeal]

So putting whether or not he's played a full season or not aside, are you willing to agree that Bynum is susceptible to injury?

nope because it is not a guarantee that he will get injured only an assumption. like gek said "The only part of him that is currently susceptible to injury is the part of him that was previously injured as a result of freak accidents". take away those freak accidents and he only has one injury in seven years.

[Jetset]

alright.

[chefy]

man i wish i can find that thread where milesfides posted a bunch of medical exam results and doctors interviews saying bynum's knees are indeed prone to injuries.

[Gek]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1184609/2/index.htm

And it's a lot to read but here's an excerpt:

Trainers learned that Bynum underwent his first knee operation when he was 12 and were concerned about his Q angle—the relationship between his pelvis, leg and foot. According to head athletic trainer Gary Vitti, a wide Q angle can affect the way the kneecap glides along the thigh bone and can also cause increased foot pronation, both common sources of injuries. "Andrew is challenged in terms of his skeleton," Vitti says. "But we can work with those issues to some degree. What you can't do is take someone with a normal Q angle and make him 7 feet, 285 pounds."

Ohhhhh, gotchya. I'd say his body is built to be injury prone, but he hasn't been injury prone throughout his career. I still stand by my previous statement.

[MoLakers]

lets define our terms:

and a ironman comparison; dwight:
- not injury prone at all
- has good luck
- TBD, seeing as dwight seems to never get injured

or a fun example; lebron
- not injury prone
- has good luck
- not particularly hardy, sprained ring finger on off-dribbling arm and "injured" elbow and all

though dwight has been healthy his whole career, i found it doesnt help your point when he's in LA getting doctors' opinions about his back.