2012 NBA Draft - Part III

[WizarDynasty]

People are worry about Thomas Robinson size. My concern is Beal height he listed six feet three. He's a good player but His height concerns me especially on the defensive end at the pro level. That's why I don't have him in my top 3 right now. I have him in my top four to six range in the draft.

If Beal is so small, why did he lead Florida in rebounds -- as a freshman -- with nearly 7 a game? He blocked the same number as shots as John Wall did in his year in college. I don't care he he measures; he plays plenty big.

a shooting guard main job is to score at will, and when you are undersized but have elite athleticism--for a shooting guard that means outstanding first step and excellent bulk (eric gordon) --but if you are undersized and also not an elite athlete (no explosive first step) aka Jordan crawford and bradley beal. Or you hae a quick first step but no bulk to hold your position on the drive (lamb, iverson, and nic young) you pull of your low percentage moving jumpers because slight nudges throw your shot off after you used your explosive firsts step to get into lane after beating the defender and can't get to the line at will unless teh refs call touch fouls.
If you have a poor standing reach as shooting guard, you get posted up and shot over (eric gordon)
the worst thing to do as a rebuilding team is to overdraft a player based on need. Get the player that you are willing to bet all your chips will give you the greatest amount of trade value in three years. who honestly at the 5th pick, assuming Hornets get more wins, gives us that. If we are looking for immediate improvement--our best bet is with a trade or free agency. Draft is for developing prospects in a couple of years to be studs, not for immediate returns. I don't see any starters next years in this draft, and definitely not Davis. It's going to take him the same amount of time as Javale to Bulk because he has the same exact body type. Basically a perimeter player trying to gain the lower body bulk to be an interior player takes a very very long time if ever.

CAlling bradley beal anything close to ray allen in his prime shows alot of people forget who ray allen was. In the dunk contest of 1997, [youtube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QO3FOj0 ... age#t=426s[/youtube]may allen's head nearly touches the rim. He was extremely explosive, Beal had nothing on him so i think it funny that people are trying to sell Beal as Ray Allen clone. Ray allen 6'5 w/o shoes who's head nearly touches the rim on dunks when he first comes out of college. Beal barely can get the ball over the rim. there is a huge difference in terms of athleticism. But if my two shotblocking seven footers are gone, i will go with MKG in a heart beat.

[pcbothwel]

WizD,

I dont know where to start. I understand the importance of measureables when projecting to the next level, but you seem to have zero grasp on how those transfer to playing the game. If it were, McGee would be a great player and defender. But oh yeah "hes slow footed/no lateral quickness". Go look up Javales pre-draft work out with running ladder drills, SIMPLY AMAZING for his size.

Kevin Love should thank god every day the NBA practices Affirmative Action or else his slow, short, T-rex armed self would be a D-League bench rider. Give me a break.

Robinson has Amare type potential but a better defender simply because of work ethic. And this "undersized" thing is ridiculous. He will measure in two inches taller than Booker with 3+ inches on his wingspan.
Did you use Beasley as an example of why Robinson will fail as an undersized 4...really..Micheal Beasley. Oh, and you said Chris Humphries. Maybe you dont watch Basketball or you got a thing for Kim, but if I could get a hardworking rebounder like Humphries with a better offensive game and quicker first step..I take him top 3-5 no question. Look a Humphries Per/36 number below and take into account that Robinson would be better offensively...hmmm

Season Tm FG% FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS PER TS
2010-11 NJN .527 .665 3.9 9.5 13.5 1.5 0.6 1.4 1.8 2.9 12.9 17.8 .56
2011-12 NJN .481 .747 3.9 7.5 11.4 1.5 0.8 1.3 2.0 2.9 14.2 17.9 .54

Sorry to Rant on you WizD, but its just unbelievable that people continually overlook what is right in front of them with regard to scouting players.

[Rafael122]

The teams that will be looking at both of them at the top of the draft if they don't get the No. 1 pick -- the Charlotte Bobcats, Washington Wizards, Toronto Raptors and Cleveland Cavaliers -- will have a tough call. I spoke with sources inside all four teams and I think right now MKG has the edge in Charlotte and Toronto. The Cavs sound like Beal may have the slight edge. I think the Wizards are still trying to figure this out, though we have them selecting Kidd-Gilchrist in our mock. If the two agree to workout against each other, it should be epic.

--Chad Ford

I think both guys are the 2nd or 3rd best players in the draft so you can't go wrong with either of them. However, Beal fits a need, and he's a good player. It's not like we're gonna pick a scrub just because we have a gaping hole at the 2. If he turns out to be the shooter everyone thinks he is, we'll have our Ray Allen for the next decade.

I know this sounds far fetched but who's to say Kidd-Gilchrist won't end up being just a more polished version of Chris Singleton?

[tontoz]

I know this sounds far fetched but who's to say Kidd-Gilchrist won't end up being just a more polished version of Chris Singleton?

MKG is the opposit of Singleton. Singleton can't finish inside if there is anyone near him. The strength of MKGs game is taking it to the rim and finishing, even in traffic.

I am not sold on drafting MKG but that is a bad comparison. Singleton sucks. MKG's game resembles GWallace more than anyone.

[dobrojim]

I agree that Withey could pan out to be a decent defensive role player in the pros - a la Theo Ratliff, or at least Jim McIllvaine. I'm not sure if it would be wise for us to draft him next year, however. I figure 18 months from now, Jan Vesely will be able to provide much of what Withey provides, but with more mobility.

for a C, I'd take Zeller before Withey.

[dobrojim]

People are worry about Thomas Robinson size. My concern is Beal height he listed six feet three. He's a good player but His height concerns me especially on the defensive end at the pro level. That's why I don't have him in my top 3 right now. I have him in my top four to six range in the draft.

If Beal is so small, why did he lead Florida in rebounds -- as a freshman -- with nearly 7 a game? He blocked the same number as shots as John Wall did in his year in college. I don't care he he measures; how plays plenty big.

+1 -he plays big. He might make a really strong backcourt partner
with Wall, especially if this year was more of an aberration as a long range
shooter.

I like Beal a lot as our first pick if that is what it ends up being.
Hard to say which I like best between TRob, MKG and Beal. I can
imagine good things for all of them. And questions about all of them.
Probably fewest questions about TRob - agree with the high floor thought^.

[closg00]

I'm picking Jeff Taylor for my Doc/CCJ/Cons special

Here are his numbers vs MKG.

vs. UK March 11, 2012: J. Taylor: 18 Pts, 11 Reb, 1 Ast, 2 Stl
M. Kidd-Gilchrist: 5 Pts, 0 Reb, 0 Ast, 0 Stl
vs. UF February 28, 2012: J. Taylor: 18 Pts, 6 Reb, 3 Ast
B. Beal: 16 Pts, 5 Reb, 3 Stl
vs. UK February 25, 2012: J. Taylor: 19 Pts, 9 Reb, 1 Stl, 1 Blk
M. Kidd-Gilchrist: 8 Pts, 8 Reb, 3 Ast, 1Stl
vs. UK February 11, 2012: J. Taylor: 13 Pts, 9 Reb, 4 Ast
M. Kidd-Gilchrist: 4 Pts, 7 Reb, 1Ast, 1 Stl
vs. UF February 4, 2012: J. Taylor: 25 Pts, 6 Reb, 2 Ast, 4 Stl, 1 Blk
B. Beal 16 Pts, 7 Reb, 3 Ast, 2 Stl
vs. UNC November 21, 2010: J. Taylor: 15 Pts, 7 Reb, 3 Ast
H. Barnes: 11 Pts, 4 Reb, 2 Ast, 2 Stl

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jeff-Taylor-1351/

Most notably, Taylor has turned into an excellent jump shooter, knocking down an outstanding 43.2% of his 5.3 attempts per 40 minutes pace adjusted while ranking as one of the best perimeter shooters amongst small forwards in our database. To put this feat in perspective, he was making 9.1% of 0.5 attempts per 40 minutes pace adjusted just two years ago. His form has improved significantly, far quicker and more fluid than in the past. Furthermore, though he is primarily a spot-up shooter at this stage in his career, his form stays relatively consistent with or without a hand in his face

[WizarDynasty]

ok, for last time, t-rob probably has the same standing reach or worse than Booker. I won't say this again, when you talk about height, you need to talk about basketball height which is standing reach, not wingspan. No one plays basketball with their head. Post players put their hands straight into the air when playing post defense.
A player with poor standing reach for his position, Booker is inferior to a player with superior standing reach. Brand has a 9'2 standing reach but he is only 6'8. Booker has a 8'10 standing reach.
Basically that is the same 6'6 shooting guard going up against a 6'2 shooting guard on defense.
4 inches is a huge huge advantage close to the rim.
so again, i highly doubt trob has standing reach above 8'10. He isn't taller than singleton and even though singleton is 6'9 he only has an 8'8 standing reach. Why? Long neck.

[dobrojim]

Taylor could well turn out to be pretty good. What you post is more than food for thought.
But so is the fact that MKG was a frosh and Taylor a senior IIRC.
Do you think any GM would any GM trade MKG for Taylor after the draft? Not sure I do.
The question would be how much incentive could be gained for doing this. And what you end
using that incentive on. Jae Crowder? I seriously doubt this guy lasts to the 2nd round
by the time the draft rolls around.

[The Consiglieri]

Does Thomas Robinson has all star potential? He more athletic then people give him credit for. His jumper is steady improving also. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkZbmKIhwAo He Got hops.

I think Thomas Robinson will have a long and productive pro career that doesn't quite justify his likely draft position. I think he will be along the lines of Kurt Thomas, Joe Smith and Juwan Howard. All were great college players and good but unexceptional pros. If we didn't have Nene, I could be more in favor of picking him. He is the ultimate high floor pick.

Ive been fixating on the Howard Comp for two months, not for style of play or anything else at all save impact. I think his upside in terms of impact is what Howard was '94-'97 before the wheels fell off the following year and his career went a bit sideways. I loved Howard, and was ecstatic when we drafted him (the only time we ever drafted exactly whom i wanted at slot), and if Robinson could become that impactful it would be great, but we'd still be looking for our elite difference maker. I don't think he'll ever be that special, i think he'll be good, maybe very good, but i definitely dont see any potential for true greatness in him.

[The Consiglieri]

People are worry about Thomas Robinson size. My concern is Beal height he listed six feet three. He's a good player but His height concerns me especially on the defensive end at the pro level. That's why I don't have him in my top 3 right now. I have him in my top four to six range in the draft.

If Beal is so small, why did he lead Florida in rebounds -- as a freshman -- with nearly 7 a game? He blocked the same number as shots as John Wall did in his year in college. I don't care he he measures; how plays plenty big.

+1 -he plays big. He might make a really strong backcourt partner
with Wall, especially if this year was more of an aberration as a long range
shooter.

I like Beal a lot as our first pick if that is what it ends up being.
Hard to say which I like best between TRob, MKG and Beal. I can
imagine good things for all of them. And questions about all of them.
Probably fewest questions about TRob - agree with the high floor thought^.

Yep, Beal brings everything you want to the table (great motor, great BBIQ, highly coachable, excellent shooter, fills the stat line, great guy/teammate) save elite jump out the gym athleticism, and he isn't far off from having that kind of impact on the court. He's a very special player, and if MKG can become better as a shooter, he's fantastic too. There are 3 nice runner up prizes in Beal, MKG, and Robinson. It was also nice to see that the favorite targets for us after Davis appear to be 2/3 on our board.

[Knighthonor]

Wizards need to pay right now so they can get number 1 in the next two years of a fixed draft..
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/7080 ... r-everyone

Lol

[doclinkin]

I'm picking Jeff Taylor for my Doc/CCJ/Cons special

Yeah I mentioned I liked his numbers this year. I don't see a star player there but a solid addition to a team.

[hands11]

I would just like to point out again, it isn't all about having top 5 picks. It's about how the pieces fit together. Look at Chicago. They are the best team in the league. Well, they have the best record.

Yeah, they have D Rose and that makes a big difference. But they are also really smart and have experienced players. And even without Rose they were winning. And they just beat Miami who has 3 big name players who seem to be missing some mental edge while Rose didnt play that well.

Look at some of the pieces to the Chicago team.

Carlos Boozer,2nd Rnd, 6th
Kyle Korver 2nd Rnd, 22nd
Taj Gibson 1st Rnd, 26th - that's almost a second rounder
C.J. Watson undrafted
Omer Asik 2nd Rnd, 6th by POR

Yeah, they have several players who are 1st round 7th picks types but they don't have a full roster of them.

It's how the pieces fit together that matter most.

And a lot of these pieces came from other teams. I think the Wiz have one more year of adding assets, then they have to start making moves like they did with Nene. I am very anti moving Booker at this point. The kid has to much to offer the team mentally and physically. He is the kind of piece I think you want to keep. He may not have everything you want in his game right now but his game did get better since last year. The kid has a winning way about him. This team can't afford to lose players like that. If this team has Booker and Nene on the court, they would look a lot better.

The big piece they need to find over the next year or so is that SF piece. They need to stay patient for the right opportunity.

[truwizfan4evr]

If wizards land forth pick threw six pick would anyone consider Harrison Barnes? He struggled in big moment in college but he would be a nice fit with john wall. Don't get me wrong I don't have him in my top 5 but is he someone to consider when the guys we want is off the board?

[Rafael122]

If wizards land forth pick threw six pick would anyone consider Harrison Barnes? He struggled in big moment in college but he would be a nice fit with john wall. Don't get me wrong I don't have him in my top 5 but is he someone to consider when the guys we want is off the board?

Top 5 players: Davis, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Bradley Beal, Thomas Robinson.

If we land in the top 5, we'll get one of them. But if we have the 6th pick, I would look into trading down, maybe with a team like Portland, have them give the Wizards their other lottery pick and see what we could do there.

[The Consiglieri]

No.

4th pick would be the last of the big 4 (Davis, Beal, MKG, Robinson)
5th Pick would be the last of the big 4, or Drummond if he falls, or a trade down of Drummond
6th pick would be a trade down, or holding your nose and taking the highest upside guy, probably PJ3 or Sully or Zeller, though I'd do everything and anything to move out six unless one of the big 4 was there or Drummond.

Barnes fell out of my top 10 w/how he played down the stretch. There are much better options than him. The good news seems to be that he isn't in our top 5, the bad news is i have no idea who would be sixth for us, and I imagine it would be one of Sully, Barnes, or PJ3, and it could very well be Barnes (though I tend to think Barnes absolutely hosed himself with how he played down the stretch).

We're basically in a position where if we play 3-4 or 4-3 down the stretch were a lock for no worse than sixth, and if we go 2-5 to 3-4 were almost certainly a lock for no worse than fifth.

[truwizfan4evr]

No.

4th pick would be the last of the big 4 (Davis, Beal, MKG, Robinson)
5th Pick would be the last of the big 4, or Drummond if he falls, or a trade down of Drummond
6th pick would be a trade down, or holding your nose and taking the highest upside guy, probably PJ3 or Sully or Zeller, though I'd do everything and anything to move out six unless one of the big 4 was there or Drummond.

Barnes fell out of my top 10 w/how he played down the stretch. There are much better options than him. The good news seems to be that he isn't in our top 5, the bad news is i have no idea who would be sixth for us, and I imagine it would be one of Sully, Barnes, or PJ3, and it could very well be Barnes (though I tend to think Barnes absolutely hosed himself with how he played down the stretch).

We're basically in a position where if we play 3-4 or 4-3 down the stretch were a lock for no worse than sixth, and if we go 2-5 to 3-4 were almost certainly a lock for no worse than fifth.

new Orleans has 3 games up on wizards we almost a lock for second worst record in nba. So we cant finish no worst then fifth pick. Witch will be better then what we had last draft at six pick.

[truwizfan4evr]

If wizards land forth pick threw six pick would anyone consider Harrison Barnes? He struggled in big moment in college but he would be a nice fit with john wall. Don't get me wrong I don't have him in my top 5 but is he someone to consider when the guys we want is off the board?

Top 5 players: Davis, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Bradley Beal, Thomas Robinson.

If we land in the top 5, we'll get one of them. But if we have the 6th pick, I would look into trading down, maybe with a team like Portland, have them give the Wizards their other lottery pick and see what we could do there.

Well remember who are general manger is. I'm almost certain Barnes is high on his draft board as a top five or six pick.

[The Consiglieri]

No.

4th pick would be the last of the big 4 (Davis, Beal, MKG, Robinson)
5th Pick would be the last of the big 4, or Drummond if he falls, or a trade down of Drummond
6th pick would be a trade down, or holding your nose and taking the highest upside guy, probably PJ3 or Sully or Zeller, though I'd do everything and anything to move out six unless one of the big 4 was there or Drummond.

Barnes fell out of my top 10 w/how he played down the stretch. There are much better options than him. The good news seems to be that he isn't in our top 5, the bad news is i have no idea who would be sixth for us, and I imagine it would be one of Sully, Barnes, or PJ3, and it could very well be Barnes (though I tend to think Barnes absolutely hosed himself with how he played down the stretch).

We're basically in a position where if we play 3-4 or 4-3 down the stretch were a lock for no worse than sixth, and if we go 2-5 to 3-4 were almost certainly a lock for no worse than fifth.

new Orleans has 3 games up on wizards we almost a lock for second worst record in nba. So we cant finish no worst then fifth pick. Witch will be better then what we had last draft at six pick.

Past couple of years I've seen the Nats, Wizards, and Redskins all significantly outproduce expectations in terms of wins seriously risking draft slotting (got really lucky with Bryce and Strass, barely holding off other opponents, the Wizards repeatedly screwed up slotting with solid runs down the stretch the previous 3 seasons, and of course the redskins vastly outpaced expectations in 2010 and 2011 when they were projected to be the worst team both seasons, and instead finished 23rd, and 27th instead losing out on the Newton/Miller/AJ Green/Peterson sweepstakes, and the Luck/RG3 sweepstakes this year, and as a result having to engage in a massive asset removing overpay to get RG3 this month). I never count anything as locked in until the final game is over.

According to all information available, Barnes is not in our top 5 period. I do not know if he's the guy at 6 though and can't speak to that. He very well could be, which is one of the absolutely essential reasons for us to hold the 2 slot pre-lottery.