Official Countdown Grunfeld Era-2nd SuperStar?

[Rafael122]

In that article it was also mentioned that the position will be highly sought after and I would tend to agree. This team has pieces in place, some cap room, and another high lottery pick so the Wizards are in a prime position to turn it around in a year or two. With the right management of course.

[Knighthonor]

After Gil is gone, it looks like the Wizards will never get a super star. And the wizards will remain another bottom of the rank team like the rams and Lions have been in the NFL

[hands11]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/wizards-ernie-grunfeld-wont-let-speculation-about-future-affect-him/2012/04/12/gIQATyXjDT_story.html

Interesting article on Ernie in today's Post.

Leonsis has said he wouldn’t judge Grunfeld based on decisions that were made under the previous ownership. Grunfeld has pulled off some stellar moves — dealing away Gilbert Arenas when few thought he could; acquiring Kirk Hinrich and the 17th overall pick (which turned out to be Seraphin) from Chicago and using Hinrich to get Crawford and the 18th pick (Chris Singleton) from Atlanta.

Sounds like a point someone on the board was trying to make.

[hands11]

I owe Gil an apology for speculating that he owed Javaris money. After reading this, it seems he just argued with the wrong fool.

One point I remember you making at the time is the danger the Arenas put himself in(and anyone possibly in the locker room). Arenas' explanation does make it seem like an argument(more than a joke) that got way out of hand.

Yeah. Considering Critter is up on charges of actually shooting and killing someone, I think it was very stupid.

I have no problem with people wanting to see Gil make a comeback but lets remember something here. Gil totally F k d this franchise with his stupidity. A lot of why this team got completely blown up was because of Gil. Gil was the ring leader of stupid. It is his culture was are still trying to change. I wasnt a culture CB or AJ set. It was Gil and Abe. One on the court and in the locker. One in the front office.

[hands11]

In that article it was also mentioned that the position will be highly sought after and I would tend to agree. This team has pieces in place, some cap room, and another high lottery pick so the Wizards are in a prime position to turn it around in a year or two. With the right management of course.

Wonder how they got in that prime position.

How this as an idea. Some unnamed person makes some general statement about why a GM has to leave the job of a highly sought after job. How conveeeeeeeeeenient.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I owe Gil an apology for speculating that he owed Javaris money. After reading this, it seems he just argued with the wrong fool.

One point I remember you making at the time is the danger the Arenas put himself in(and anyone possibly in the locker room). Arenas' explanation does make it seem like an argument(more than a joke) that got way out of hand.

I wasn't off about that at all. Bringing the guns wasn't very bright. Getting into with a guy like Javaris wasn't bright. Even if Gil had been the shooter had something gone down, it still would have been a tragic event. I did figure it was way more than a joke from the start.

In hindsight, Arenas is lucky things went as they did. He earned his punishment for being really dumb. At least he's not in the same condition as that mother of four in ATL.

[montestewart]

After Gil is gone, it looks like the Wizards will never get a super star. And the wizards will remain another bottom of the rank team like the rams and Lions have been in the NFL

Well then we better not let him go.

[WizarDynasty]

Wall would be alot further along mentally if Hinrich were still around. Love Seraphin, but the wisdom of battling in the trenches and studying off the court with hinrich instead of mack is starting to show its ugly head.

[Rafael122]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/wizards-ernie-grunfeld-wont-let-speculation-about-future-affect-him/2012/04/12/gIQATyXjDT_story.html

Interesting article on Ernie in today's Post.

Leonsis has said he wouldn’t judge Grunfeld based on decisions that were made under the previous ownership. Grunfeld has pulled off some stellar moves — dealing away Gilbert Arenas when few thought he could; acquiring Kirk Hinrich and the 17th overall pick (which turned out to be Seraphin) from Chicago and using Hinrich to get Crawford and the 18th pick (Chris Singleton) from Atlanta.

Sounds like a point someone on the board was trying to make.

I think it's pretty naive to just judge Ernie based on what he's done while Ted has been owner. I think you have to look at his entire body of work. He's made some good moves recently, but there's also 10 other moves that you could look at and say "yeah, that was bad."

[hands11]

I think it would be pretty foolish to overly weight moves made with a different owner. What should matter the most to Ted is how well he and EG have worked together.

Let me take that to an extreme just to highlight the point. Our math people should understand well how you test things. Lets do some calculus and test the limits of your your theory. Lets say Abe/EG was 100% terrible. Then lets say Ted/EG was 100% amazingly awesome - best pairing ever.

What would it really matter what Abe/EG did ? It wouldn't matter at all. Zero. Nada. It is meaningless. All that matters is how you are with your new partner. You would be stupid to part ways with the person you hit 100% with just because they hit 100% wrong with someone else.

How many of us have been partnered with a lady that yielded bad results ? Then you partner with someone else and it yielded good results. It only takes 1/2 a partnership to make it suck. And sometimes two pieces don't compliment each other well. It can not work even if one of the pieces isn't flawed in a major way. You with a new partner and the other person with a new partner could both work out.

All that matter is what Ted/EG have done. The only exception to that would be if EG was ever in a position where he has 100% decision making control ala the way things were under several Bill Parcells lead franchises.

[Rafael122]

We're in this position BECAUSE of Ernie. He is cleaning up the mess he made under the previous ownership. That's why he needs to go. Who does that? Who messes a team up, and then has the chance to fix his mistake?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

--When Ernie drafted Pecherov, Millsap was an obvious choice for a team that needed rebounding.

--When Ernie acquired Mike Miller and Randy Foye, both with only one season before unrestricted free agency, Stephen Curry was an obvious choice. Ricky Rubio ended up becoming Minnesota's pick

--I thought it was a good deal, but many knew better when Ernie extended Blatche. That one has come back to bite EG, but I blame Andray Blatche.

--The single most devastating move EG made was re-signing injured Arenas, and also Jamison to contracts of $111M and $56M. I said Gil knows his body is breaking down and that is why he opted out. I said let both guys walk and go after other players, particularly guys who play defense. It has been years in the making, but Nene at $13M could have been the type of signing the Wizards made 5 years ago.

I was happy during the 2 wins. Happy with the way Seraphin and Vesely were playing. I believed Jordan Crawford might be playing his way to a good trade for a draft pick. I love what Martin and James Singleton brought back to the team. I saw the recent moves EG has made as steps in the right direction. They are. Not looking forward to Walsh/D'Antoni, I said keep EG and Wittman.

However, the last couple games have been very demoralizing. This season has been brutal. The past two games just removed all doubt about the two wins. Orlando was tired and Charlotte SUCKS. I think the Wizards really need changes.

Ernie should go.

[hands11]

When Ernie drafted Pecherov, Millsap was an obvious choice for a team that needed rebounding.

When Ernie acquired Mike Miller and Randy Foye, both with only one season before unrestricted free agency, Seth Curry was and obvious choice. Ricky Rubio ended up becoming Minnesota's pick

I thought it was a good deal, but many knew better when Ernie extended Blatche.

The single most devastating move EG made was actually re-signing injured Arenas, and also Jamison to contracts of $111M and $56M. I said Gil knows his body is breaking down and that is why he opted out. I said let both guys walk and go after other players, particularly guys who play defense.

It has been years in the making, but Nene at $13M could have been the type of signing the Wizards made 5 years ago.

I was happy during the 2 wins. Happy with the way Seraphin and Vesely were playing. I believed Jordan Crawford might be playing his way to a good trade for a draft pick. I love what Martin and James Singleton brought back to the team. I saw the recent moves EG has made as steps in the right direction. They are. Not looking forward to Walsh/D'Antoni, I said keep EG and Wittman.

The last couple games have been very demoralizing. This season has been brutal. The past two games just removed all doubt about the two wins. Orlando was tired and Charlotte SUCKS. I think the Wizards really need more changes.

E

I said most of the same things only it was Stephen Curry I was pulling for us to get. I said other things as well like trade Gil before he ever got to the point of needing to extend him but when it got to that point I said let him walk. I said the same thing about AJ. The OP pick was a bad one I give you that but that was a long long time ago. What matters is what has he done with Ted. With Nene and Booker on the court, this team would be worlds better. Of the moves made since then, Singleton and Mack are the two questionable ones. We could have had Brooks and took a swing on Jereme Tyler.

Ya the last two game have me down also but since Ted became owner, they have made a lot of the right moves. Some were outstanding. And look how Booker improved this year with his shot. Look how Ves is coming along. Just got his second double double in 4 games. Look at how KS is coming along and how we got him. And none of them are knuckheads. Yeah they should have played better against Cleveland. It was a let down but that doesn't mean the end of the world. Stuff happens. Specially on a back to back of getting it handed to you the night before.

This team was designed to tank this short strike year. That was part of the plan for the rebuild. They wanted one more top draft pick to go along with Wall. Well, we are about to get it. Seems like the plan was executed perfectly.

Now if they can get a sure thing GM to take over then why not upgrade, but to make a change just to make one, I think that is unwise.

[Knighthonor]

problem I see with this plan to tank is that the Wizards have Wall, who cant shoot. but nobody else. they trade for the big men on the team. but still no progress without shooters that can shoot the ball well.

nobody in the top mock drafts can shoot. this is the issue I am seeing.

[verbal8]

problem I see with this plan to tank is that the Wizards have Wall, who cant shoot. but nobody else. they trade for the big men on the team. but still no progress without shooters that can shoot the ball well.

nobody in the top mock drafts can shoot. this is the issue I am seeing.

Shooters are probably the easiest thing to find via Free Agency. It seems almost if this team was constructed to fail by design. Cartier Martin is a borderline NBA player, however he has been a significant factor in recent victories. If you use free agency to a acquire a solid NBA player who can shoot, I think that alone could add 5 victories over the season.

[Jay81]

i think any chance of EG being retained has blown up with these last 2 losses. EG and Whit will both be gone after the season

[hands11]

problem I see with this plan to tank is that the Wizards have Wall, who cant shoot. but nobody else. they trade for the big men on the team. but still no progress without shooters that can shoot the ball well.

nobody in the top mock drafts can shoot. this is the issue I am seeing.

Shooters are probably the easiest thing to find via Free Agency. It seems almost if this team was constructed to fail by design. Cartier Martin is a borderline NBA player, however he has been a significant factor in recent victories. If you use free agency to a acquire a solid NBA player who can shoot, I think that alone could add 5 victories over the season.

Tanking is always by design. Players want to win. They don't tank. The front office designs a tanks.

You have to put yourself in the position of the front office, not a fan.

Start with this. You have to have a plan. In this case, we know what Ted mandated, he told us. Also, we can see what he did with the caps. He wanted another top 5 pick to go with Wall. That right there requires that you lose a lot of games. You have to be no better then the 2nd worst team in the league. You need some serious holes on your team to be that bad. The team cleared out a lot of players and contracts the previous year. You don't want to get to good to quick. Lots of us have posted about why teams need to avoid doing that when rebuilding. You don't want to rebuild to mediocre. You want to rebuild to eventually build a top team. That means you need lot of assets, cap space and a longer term plan.

Survey the landscape. You have a draft class coming up that has some good top prospects. There is even a franchise level big in the class. You have a league that is on strike when you draft this coming year and you have the 6th pick. You know it won't be a full season.. that is if there is a season at all so you can draft for upside, not immediate impact.

Survey your situation: You have Nick as a RFA who wants 9M and McGee becoming a RFA the following year. Both are not progressing as you would like so you can't count them in as part of your build. Both will want more money then you want to pay at this stage of the rebuild. Plus both are immature knuckheads that were infected by Gilbertology so you have to move one or both of them as part of the culture rebuild. Both have some talent so you should be able to get something for them. You have the Lewis contract you still need to get off your books but that will happen in 2012/2013. You can't move him yet but when you do, you are going to clear 23M in cap space. And you know his kind of contract will get addressed in some way in the new CBA. He is the poster child for the problem. You have the #1 pick in Wall and he should be coming into his own in his 3rd year so you want to have a solid team in place and start winning more by the 2012/2013 season. That is your target date. For 2011/2012, you want to rack up the Ls.

The team is void of quality shooters ( except Nick can get hot ). You have no solid SFs and you have no defensive pro level center but you have a prospect banger in KS that needs playing time. You have McGee to audition for a trade so you don't want to clog up that slot with a vet yet but you need to add some maturity. Ronny was a good addition for that. Plus he speaks French. And you have Dray who need to get evaluated. He is a big question mark. He closed the year as a starter and was putting up great (meaningless) numbers, but he has not proven he will stay in shape or that he can be a starting PF on a winning team. But you have to find out. Dray isn't a pure knuckhead. He is more the lazy type who is enjoying his success. He just needs to get back on track and he needs a reality check. He can be rehabbed.

So what do you do ? You design a tank in a strike shortened year. You don't address your lack of shooting yet because that may cause more wins then you want. You audition Nick and McGee as starters as trade bait and move them at the trade deadline so you can upgrade but you do it late in the year as to not cause to many wins. You draft the best you can with the 2012/2013 season and beyond in mind. You can grab a project player with good upside in this situation. You draft toughness, BBIQ and defense because the team need a culture rebuild. You can go for a glue piece that will have value once everything is in place but someone who is not going to produce wins on his own. A 3 and D player is a piece several winning teams have. That is how you end up with Ves and Singleton.

The 2011/2012 team is flawed by design because you want to get another top 5 pick. Doing it in a strike year is ideal. Less pain for the gain. Many of us wanted this strategy. Losing would suck but if you are going to do it, do it now. Things paned out and they were able to move Nick and McGee for Nene. Out, two knuckheads, in a solid productive vet to lead your young front court. Now you have two starting pieces when you started the season with only 1. And you don't have to deal with Nick walking for nothing looking for 9M or McGee thinking he is worth 14M a year. And you have a top 5 draft pick on the way. Hopefully that yields a 3rd starting piece by the 2013/2014. We should be getting that in Davis, Beal or Robinson.

And you have assets in Booker and Kevin, either of which look like they have starters potential but if not, they are solid back ups. C Singleton still may work out as your 3 and D bench player. Ves clearly has great BBIQ, heart and court awareness. He is no way a bust. And far from the SF most thought we were getting, he is playing C and PF. Two double doubles in the last 4 games. Not bad for a rookie with no summer camp who is foreign. He has start potential 2 years down the road. Just needs to add a mid range. He can easily do that. Booker did it and his shoot looked terrible last year. Don't write Dray off as just yet as an asset. I don't think the risk they took in extending him was a bad move. I think the kid is going to rebound and be worth something. In the long run, what happened with him is actually perfect. That was the hard wake up call he needed, and he helped the tank this year. Had this not happened to Dray, he could have loafed his way through and go amnestied. But because of what happened with him, he will finally get in shape. Everything points to that as he is doing two workouts a day now. That is how you get the most out of him or for him in a trade. The kid has skills, he just needed a boot camp wake up call and he is getting it. Lewis will come off the books so your cap is going to get even better. Dray is the only contract that is of any concern and I'm really not concerned. I think it ends up being a far value contract because he will make a come back. Even if he doesn't prove to worth all the contract in the last year, it won't be a terrible contract to deal with. Specially when he is an expiring in the final year of it. He is a skilled big who can shot, pass and rebound. Someone will want him for their bench at a minimum.

If I was a GM looking for a job, I would LOVE to come to the Wizards. All you have to do is walk in the door and make a no brainer top five draft pick and your will instantly improve the team wins next year. Even without the top 5 pick, just with Nene and Booker on the court this team will win more next year. It's a no lose situation for any GM that comes here. You have assets and cap space an all you need to do is find a starting SF and make some smart adjustments as needed. If you don't get Beal, you add a SG but that mean you got Robinson or Davis. You upgrade a back up PG.

Yes. The tank is by design. It was always the plan to get another top 5 pick. They designed this team to lose. To get that pick, you have to fill out a roster that is flawed with a few gaping holes for the 2011/2012 season but while you do that, you do the work you need to get things done for 2012/2013 and beyond.

If they move EG out, GM will be lining up for take over as the WIzards GM. You don't need to do much to look like a genius. You could put Wes Unseld in charge and have him sit on his hands and he would look like a good GM come next year. This garden has been weeded and tilled and seed planted. You have a full line of credit, a few good plants and one more on order. Cream puff job for any GM who wants to look like a genius. Team Ted/EG already did most the hard work.

[Silvie Lysandra]

--The single most devastating move EG made was re-signing injured Arenas, and also Jamison to contracts of $111M and $56M. I said Gil knows his body is breaking down and that is why he opted out. I said let both guys walk and go after other players, particularly guys who play defense. It has been years in the making, but Nene at $13M could have been the type of signing the Wizards made 5 years ago.

Gilbert Arenas prior to injury was a player on the level of Wade/Kobe/LeBron. Arenas was mismanaged and rushed back, just like Roy was mismanaged and rushed back. That doesn't mean taking the chance that he regains his old form wasn't a good idea.

EG should be fired for constantly drafting awful players and not building a strong defensive team around Arenas.

[JonathanJoseph]

i think any chance of EG being retained has blown up with these last 2 losses. EG and Whit will both be gone after the season

EG has not had a chance to be retained since Flip was coaching the team. Ted knows quite well that Flip has a track record of success and his struggles were more an indictment of the roster construction than his coaching. Ted also knows by now that the organizational dysfunction (what Arenas was referring to as parole) is something that must be fixed and can only be fixed by completely cleaning house. This goes beyond basketball moves, even if Vesely, Singleton and Mack weren't all struggling badly right now.

Just because EG is still around doesn't mean he isn't long, long gone. Change is inevitable.

[rockymac52]

So let's say Whit and EG get the boot this offseason. What's the time frame for their firings and the subsequent hirings?

It seems like Whit is definitely not going to be our coach next season. This season will end, his contract will expire (right?), and we'll go our separate ways (unless maybe he stays on as an assistant, who knows, after all, Tapscott is still part of our front office).

Then the next step logically would be to evaluate Grunfeld. Do we keep him or let him go? It appears we'll be letting him go. When would this announcement be made? Would there even be an announcement, or would we just eventually sign a new GM, and thus cut ties with EG?

Then once we get a new GM, how long before he (and Ted I suppose) hire a new head coach?

I assume this would all have to take place before the draft and free agency, obviously.

Anyone have any idea of the time frames for all of these events?