Jonas Valanciunas 11/12 Season Thread III

raptor21_85 · Post #401 » by **raptor21_85** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:26 pm

HSOB SIRHC wrote:Didn't they use Big V in the song? I just call him JV.

i remember i passed the video to a friend in Argentina and he was like wtf, Jonas has his own video??? He roots for NJN..

Anyways, i thought Big V was very common, at least i always call him that way.. i guess 50% of this board doesnt still care Jonas yet, so maybe next season he'll have his nicknames

UcanUwill · Post #402 » by **UcanUwill** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:30 pm

kingz32 wrote:
Listas wrote:
kingz32 wrote:lol...Jonas fouled out in a Eurocup game in 8 min of play for himself....discipline and timing kid....discipline. It was a 10 point loss for his team. If he stayed in the game, Rytas wins easily...can't really blame refs when you put your self in scenarios that are likely to yield foul shots against you.

Hawe you watched the game ?

no i haven't, i slept in this morning. regardless i think its a complete cop out to blame the refs for a poor performance by Rytas as a team and a poor performance by Jonas. He had a bad game, made bad decisions. Does that make him a bust? Of course not. He has a strong resume. But in the context of this game, i think its fair to analyze and question his decision making, spacing on the floor, and post position as all of those things combined had an impact on his ability to stay out of foul trouble. Just because the Raptors organization is depending on this kid to become the heart of this team, it doesn't mean that we should be willfully blind of any weakness in his makeup as a player and a rookie. He's learning, going through the motions and it's better he makes more of those mistakes there than he does here although that's inevitable.

Well, you see, you havent watched the game. I dont want to advocate here, but.

First, you cant say, Rytas wins easily if Jonas stayed in the game. Nobody knows, fouls completely changed the flow of the game early, it happened that way, and Valencia took a complete control, they were closer to win that game than 10 point differential can tell you.

Second, sadly, referring was the story of the game, and its true. Jonas made no drastic mistakes in this game. He didnt lost his cool, his sportsmanship or was completely lost, overaggressive or incautious. He played like he always does, but he was not ready for that kind of referring.

Regulio · Post #403 » by **Regulio** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:36 pm

I am sure he will learn from this. If you foul out in 8 mins it is awful regardless of referees.
Basically that's what learning by experience process is about - do mistakes and become smarter.

raptor21_85 · Post #404 » by **raptor21_85** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:36 pm

idk, but according to the media Rytas was the underdog in this game
i wish i could watched the game, but for what i've read, Big V needs to make some adjustments to not be foul prone.. referring may be atrocious, but 5 fouls in few min ?? btw, was he mad?? did he get techs??

Los Manos · Post #405 » by **Los Manos** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:39 pm

raptor21_85 wrote:idk, but according to the media Rytas was the underdog in this game
i wish i could watched the game, but for what i've read, Big V needs to make some adjustments to not be foul prone.. referring may be atrocious, but 5 fouls in few min ?? btw, was he mad?? did he get techs??

More dumbfounded than mad as they were all touch fouls. He needed to be more careful with his hands and adjust to what was being called but several of them were just horrible calls in the context of a highly physical, ultra aggressive game.

UcanUwill · Post #406 » by **UcanUwill** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:46 pm

Theres full game, look it up if you curious.

http://tv.lrytas.lt/?id=13344166521333214445

KarolisJ · Post #407 » by **KarolisJ** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:51 pm

http://tv.lrytas.lt/?id=13344134931332566903
he looks really sad and disappointed

kingz32 · Post #408 » by **kingz32** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:52 pm

UcanUwill wrote:
kingz32 wrote:
Listas wrote:Hawe you watched the game ?

no i haven't, i slept in this morning. regardless i think its a complete cop out to blame the refs for a poor performance by Rytas as a team and a poor performance by Jonas. He had a bad game, made bad decisions. Does that make him a bust? Of course not. He has a strong resume. But in the context of this game, i think its fair to analyze and question his decision making, spacing on the floor, and post position as all of those things combined had an impact on his ability to stay out of foul trouble. Just because the Raptors organization is depending on this kid to become the heart of this team, it doesn't mean that we should be willfully blind of any weakness in his makeup as a player and a rookie. He's learning, going through the motions and it's better he makes more of those mistakes there than he does here although that's inevitable.

Well, you see, you havent watched the game. I dont want to advocate here, but.

First, you cant say, Rytas wins easily if Jonas stayed in the game. Nobody knows, fouls completely changed the flow of the game early, it happened that way, and Valencia took a complete control, they were closer to win that game than 10 point differential can tell you.

Second, sadly, referring was the story of the game, and its true. Jonas made no drastic mistakes in this game. He didnt lost his cool, his sportsmanship or was completely lost, overaggressive or incautious. He played like he always does, but he was not ready for that kind of referring.

there can never be an excuse for fouling out in 8 minutes of play. You said that Valencia took advantage of it. Of course, they're supposed to! That's good strategy by their coaching when the opposing teams best player leaves the game. It has a drastic impact. If Jonas was disciplined in the game and was effective offensively and maintained better positioning he would have made a positive impact for his team.

I find it laughable that some of you are attempting to justify 5 fouls in 8 minutes in a critical game. If this was any other prospect on any other team people would be talking about how bad of a decision maker he is. I'm not calling for Jonas to be unfairly looked at because of one bad game but I'm saying that we need to be honest with ourselves when we see stuff like this happen and not just act like nothing happened because we want to numb ourselves of such performances.

Listas · Post #409 » by **Listas** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:56 pm

Well, I guess 2002 Kings are just sore losers.

raptors_star · Post #410 » by **raptors_star** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:56 pm

Highlights:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDgIfEmPx68[/youtube]

JV with 4 points, no rebounds, and 5 fouls in only 8 minutes.

Listas · Post #411 » by **Listas** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:58 pm

raptors_star wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDgIfEmPx68[/youtube]

JV with 4 points, no rebounds, and 5 fouls and 3 new enemies in only 8 minutes.

Fixed*

Los Manos · Post #412 » by **Los Manos** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:59 pm

kingz32 wrote:
there can never be an excuse for fouling out in 8 minutes of play. You said that Valencia took advantage of it. Of course, they're supposed to! That's good strategy by their coaching when the opposing teams best player leaves the game. It has a drastic impact. If Jonas was disciplined in the game and was effective offensively and maintained better positioning he would have made a positive impact for his team.

I find it laughable that some of you are attempting to justify 5 fouls in 8 minutes in a critical game. If this was any other prospect on any other team people would be talking about how bad of a decision maker he is. I'm not calling for Jonas to be unfairly looked at because of one bad game but I'm saying that we need to be honest with ourselves when we see stuff like this happen and not just act like nothing happened because we want to numb ourselves of such performances.

This thread isn't going anywhere. Watch the game and then come back here and give us your comments. Until then your contribution is entirely pointless.

ATLTimekeeper · Post #413 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:03 pm

What would you know of positioning if you haven't watched the game? You're talking in hypotheticals. If he had a history of fouling out of games or not showing up in big games maybe it might be something to be concerned about, but picking up 5 ticky-tacks in one big game isn't worth worrying about. People are complaining about the refereeing because JV's performance is an anomaly, especially this season. He wasn't playing overly aggressive or getting caught out of position.

UcanUwill · Post #414 » by **UcanUwill** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:05 pm

kingz32 wrote:
there can never be an excuse for fouling out in 8 minutes of play. You said that Valencia took advantage of it. Of course, they're supposed to! That's good strategy by their coaching when the opposing teams best player leaves the game. It has a drastic impact. If Jonas was disciplined in the game and was effective offensively and maintained better positioning he would have made a positive impact for his team.

I find it laughable that some of you are attempting to justify 5 fouls in 8 minutes in a critical game. If this was any other prospect on any other team people would be talking about how bad of a decision maker he is. I'm not calling for Jonas to be unfairly looked at because of one bad game but I'm saying that we need to be honest with ourselves when we see stuff like this happen and not just act like nothing happened because we want to numb ourselves of such performances.

But the fact is, it seemed like a regular game, he played like he always do. He actually did nothing worth bashing.
I actually missed the first and the last of his fouls, but I can tell you for sure, that 2-4 fouls were all controversial. He committed those fouls while playing regular defense. He had no opportunities to sag off or be over extra careful anyway, because his team was way behind all the time, he needed to play that D. Unfortunately, refs called everything.

raptor21_85 · Post #415 » by **raptor21_85** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:16 pm

thanks for the highlights..

kingz32 · Post #416 » by **kingz32** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:19 pm

Los Manos wrote:
kingz32 wrote:
there can never be an excuse for fouling out in 8 minutes of play. You said that Valencia took advantage of it. Of course, they're supposed to! That's good strategy by their coaching when the opposing teams best player leaves the game. It has a drastic impact. If Jonas was disciplined in the game and was effective offensively and maintained better positioning he would have made a positive impact for his team.

I find it laughable that some of you are attempting to justify 5 fouls in 8 minutes in a critical game. If this was any other prospect on any other team people would be talking about how bad of a decision maker he is. I'm not calling for Jonas to be unfairly looked at because of one bad game but I'm saying that we need to be honest with ourselves when we see stuff like this happen and not just act like nothing happened because we want to numb ourselves of such performances.

This thread isn't going anywhere. Watch the game and then come back here and give us your comments. Until then your contribution is entirely pointless.

Who are you to tell me that my contribution is pointless? E-Police? :lol:

I'm not asking you to read and respond to my comments. This is the internet where people just might have different stances than you on topics. deal with it.

Los Manos · Post #417 » by **Los Manos** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:24 pm

kingz32 wrote:
Los Manos wrote:
kingz32 wrote:
there can never be an excuse for fouling out in 8 minutes of play. You said that Valencia took advantage of it. Of course, they're supposed to! That's good strategy by their coaching when the opposing teams best player leaves the game. It has a drastic impact. If Jonas was disciplined in the game and was effective offensively and maintained better positioning he would have made a positive impact for his team.

I find it laughable that some of you are attempting to justify 5 fouls in 8 minutes in a critical game. If this was any other prospect on any other team people would be talking about how bad of a decision maker he is. I'm not calling for Jonas to be unfairly looked at because of one bad game but I'm saying that we need to be honest with ourselves when we see stuff like this happen and not just act like nothing happened because we want to numb ourselves of such performances.

This thread isn't going anywhere. Watch the game and then come back here and give us your comments. Until then your contribution is entirely pointless.

Who are you to tell me that my contribution is pointless? E-Police? I'm not asking you to read and respond to my comments. This is the internet where people just might have different stances than you on topics. deal with it.

I have no problem with you having an opinion, just preface it with "I didn't watch the game but...' so that anybody reading your long winded analysis based off a box score can also tell it is pointless.

raptor21_85 · Post #418 » by **raptor21_85** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:27 pm

kingz32, Jonas is still developing.. its not that fair to bash him this way.. he had a bad game let alone the refs exageratin calls.. you have a point, and thats okay, but you'd have to watch the game to support it

kingz32 · Post #419 » by **kingz32** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:29 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:What would you know of positioning if you haven't watched the game? You're talking in hypotheticals. If he had a history of fouling out of games or not showing up in big games maybe it might be something to be concerned about, but picking up 5 ticky-tacks in one big game isn't worth worrying about. People are complaining about the refereeing because JV's performance is an anomaly, especially this season. He wasn't playing overly aggressive or getting caught out of position.

You see, I actually know the game of basketball and I don't need to watch a game to know that when a big man is in foul trouble like that it's because he's not getting the proper leverage he needs in the post position wise to play strong defense and alter shots without making himself susceptible to continuous foul calls. When you put yourself in a good stance and remain cautious with your reaches with the ball you limit the opportunity for the refs to blow the whistle on questionable calls.

You're not even getting the point. A lot of you are being too sensitive about this and I should't even be continuing to discuss a small issue i brought up. I'm not saying Jonas is a bad player, I'm saying he had a bad game. When you foul out in 8 min, you had a bad game regardless of anything else he did on the court that day. That's all I'm saying, I don't see why there's so much opposition to that observation. Better positioning and discipline next time around in such a situation when things arent going his way will do the trick. The kid will be fine, i know it's not the end of the world.

NiL8r87 · Post #420 » by **NiL8r87** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:38 pm

kingz32 wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:What would you know of positioning if you haven't watched the game? You're talking in hypotheticals. If he had a history of fouling out of games or not showing up in big games maybe it might be something to be concerned about, but picking up 5 ticky-tacks in one big game isn't worth worrying about. People are complaining about the refereeing because JV's performance is an anomaly, especially this season. He wasn't playing overly aggressive or getting caught out of position.

You see, I actually know the game of basketball and I don't need to watch a game to know that when a big man is in foul trouble like that it's because he's not getting the proper leverage he needs in the post position wise to play strong defense and alter shots without making himself susceptible to continuous foul calls.

So you're basically a scout who can analyze players and their positioning without actually watching the games. It's a wonder you aren't working for an NBA team yet.

Are you always this dumb?