Do u have a problem with the heat and hoodies?

[RunDogGun]

Most of that is according to Zimmerman. Is that really where Martinwas first seen? How do you know that Zimmerman didn't see Martin go into the neighborhood, and Zimmerman didn't follow him into the neighborhood in his truck.

A screw driver? But he didn't. Don't add things that aren't true.

And just because he didn't know where Martin was, in no way implies he wasn't still looking for him. By his own words, he didn't want this "a**hole to get away". Many times I get frustrated because I can't find my car keys, and sound like I am going to give up looking for them, but I continue to search for them.

As far as your reason for the Stand Your Ground law, Come on dude. This law has hindered many cases. And many killers are free to roam the streets.

As far as the dispatcher goes, a redirect is all that is needed. "Did you imply to Mr. Zimmerman that you wanted him to get out of the car, and follow Martin?". "No, in fact when it sounded as if he was following him, I told him that wasn't neccessary.". " Did Mr. Zimmerman tell you that he had a loaded weapon, when he started his pursuit of Trayvon?". "No, if he had, I would have told him to stay in his vehicle, and not to take the law into his own hands, and to let the police do their job."

[Frank Lee]

...... but I understand where your coming from and that's why I'm trying to ask him to tone it down a little. ....

Am I supposed to do that before or after I decide if I'm a racist or cold hearted ?

your either cold hearted or a racist yourself if your NOT invested emotionally yet continue to discuss the topic.

Does that apply to everyone in this thread ?

And you know.... I was just getting comfortable with your other labels

Don't kid yourself. Your just as big of a scumbag as Zimmerman if you can even begin to try to defend him, I don't care what Trayvon did, .....

.....you claim to be objective yet your just an idiot bringing up points that don't matter. ......

ob·jec·tive : adjective: not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased:

May be not 100%, but pretty close. I've just been asking questions really because I do not have all the facts... nobody here does. ... then I was drawn into a semantic debate over the definition of child. (BTW, under 14... remember? )

And points that dont matter ? I questioned the media's attempt to canonize this kid. Once they determined the trendish appeal this death had (ie heat and hoodies) they leapt into manipulation mode. The photos? Are you kidding me ? he's 13 -14 yrs old in those? The edited 911 call that pushed racial buttons.... The videos allowing many to presume that ZIm was not injurred at all ? The TV interviews with witnesses stating post shooting accounts..... Its a circus of half trues setting up the general populace to fill in the blanks. You bought it hook line sinker Dudley...and have cherry picked the evidence you trumpet. Believe it or not, crap like that compromises the judicial system. Now, the big question has become can Zimmerman get a fair trial?

Dud, you got emotionally invested in this. I am not. Nor am I a racist, nor cold hearted. There are other things that concern me more. I watch this from a distance, but have interjected here and ended up in a joust with you. You needed somebody to blow your horn on. You do make good points. And have been steadfast.

I asked the simple question of 'What if Martin initiated the physical altercation ?' Believe me, that will be a focus in court. If Zimm's team cant show enough proof/doubt about that, then he's toasted, as he should be.

As the trial goes on, perhaps some of the local blank filling will require erasers. The public has never known the entire book of evidence. All of the witness accounts...The police accounts... The medical report from the ems at the scene... etc etc... and yes... of course the ballistics report.

Let it shake out.... its going to be good TV for the spring/summer... and spark many a legislative debate on this weird law that is now getting a much harder look.

And one more thing..... this question....

are you willing to accept the outcome of this judicial system as being a fair conclusion ?

caio back.


PS.... Miklo... I think you're the bestest most best MOD ever... and when the line dies down, I'll give you a fannykiss too.

[Nuntius]

Dud, you got emotionally invested in this. I am not.

You are. You are emotionally invested in this story. You are just not emotionally invested in Trayvon's death like most of us. You are emotionally invested in supporting Zimmerman. Stop trying to pretend that you're objective. You are not. You are clearly subjective. The only difference is that most people are willing to accept that they are subjective yet you are under the impression that you are objective. But that's simply not true.

[Frank Lee]

Be more specific Nuntias. Educate me.

Or perhaps answer a question or two. I have asked a couple of 'what if and may be' ones that were unclear to me, based on the little evidence available. And please... when you say 'most of us' , are you referring to the 4 or 5 people posting in this thread ? Dude, many read this stuff, I do not see how you claim 'most' when it is such a small sampling. Outside of Bigfoot and myself, you guys have about run off anyone questioning the validity of media's display of evidence.

I have continued the discussion in a back and forth jab/gab session as some form of twisted entertainment I suppose. Read the posts... its clear some are much more upset about this thing. I should have realized their/your sensitivity... but hey... its the Internet right ? I hope I have contributed in a positive way, even though for the most part, you and others have your minds made up on how it all should play out. Again, all the evidence is not public .... yet.

And just because I havent lock stepped in with you does not mean I champion Zimmerman. I could give a crap about him. His own choices have caused his position and now his fate will be determined by others.

IF he is proven guilty, he goes to jail. I wont lose a minutes sleep about it... where as if he walks... ????? So be it. I do not think you can say the same. I dont know though.... can you ?

See there is another simple question....

[Nuntius]

1) It's Nuntius and not Nuntias. And I have no interest in educating anyone, actually. I'm just here to share my opinions not to force them upon someone.

2) When I say most of us I am referring to the people posting in this thread, of course. It's safe to say that the majority has taken a stance opposite of yours. Not that this means anything. All opinions should be heard no matter how accepted or popular they are.

3) Just because you don't support Zimmerman that does not mean that you have not chose a side. You have clearly do so. I don't know why. The OP had a reason to take Zimmerman's side since he is a military officer. That means that he can relate to him. In fact, that's why this story is so heated and people pick sides. Because a lot of them can relate. I can relate to Trayvon because I'm young and I have been profiled due to my appearance by the police and because I've faced police brutality several times. Other people could relate to Zimmerman because they have been robbed.

4) Sure, the evidence is not public. Not there will ever be. Even if they are, I'll probably never found out about them. As I said I live in Greece. This story has not been broadcast by our media more than once. Most of my info come from here. It's safe to say that I cannot make a correct judgement since I don't have the evidence or the specialty to do so. Also, I am not aware of the US legal system. The only thing I can do is to express my opinion. And that's what I'm going to do.

5) Even if Zimmerman goes to jail that is not going to change anything for me. It will not bring Trayvon back. The case for me is pretty simple. No one should die because he looked too "gangsta" in the mind of a freak. No vigilante should roam the street and be out for blood in order to protect the "holy" private property. The US has to come to a realization sooner or later. A human life is worth A LOT MORE than private property.

[bigfoot]

Well, it still may not go to trial. I am happy he is in custody, because that is really all I wanted. However, GZ may still be able to use this stupid Stand Your Ground law, and be acquitted.

Time will tell, as to what evidence was accumulated. It is just unfortunate that the officers did such a terrible job initially.

I was watching some shows, and there is too much media coverage, and many are just trying to make a story about every little thing. Hopefully as much of the real story can come to light, and whatever justice can be served. If that means that GZ walks, then so be it.

The real issue will then be the law itself, and how many cases it has hindered. Hopefully that law will be altered.

Look at this situation in a state that did not have such a law.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15199221/#.T4oe1Y5O_jM

Fish was found guilty and served several years in jail because of an overzealous prosecutor and a judge who withheld information from the jury. The information withheld was that the person Fish killed had a violent past and had attacked people.

After that, Arizona put the burden of proof on the prosecutor in self-defense cases. Fish was eventually freed.

[RunDogGun]

Cool story Bigfoot. It has nothing to do with this case. So do I have to find another case where someone killed an innocent person but used the Stand Your Ground law to get away with murder, to counter your Fishy case? Does this case count?

It's a stupid law, that has hindered many cases from going to trial, and many killers are walking the streets because of this law.

Anyways, let's see how this case unfolds, but the so called facts are still very one sided, because we don't have Trayvon's side. We only have the side of a guy who was tired of "a**holes getting away " with, well whatever they get away with. Unfortunately for Trayvon, he wasnt allowed to get away with eating his Skittles, drinking his tea, walking in the rain in a hoody, or talking on the phone.

Zimmerman was looking for trouble with his gun, and he found it.

[bigfoot]

It's a stupid law, that has hindered many cases from going to trial, and many killers are walking the streets because of this law.

There are many killers walking the streets period.

http://azdailysun.com/news/state-and-re ... 770cf.html

The right to bear arms and defend yourself is too important.
Otherwise only the bad guys have guns.
Also, how will you survive the zombie apocalypse

Note: Not arguing with you about GZ/Martin. Only your stance that the "stand you ground law" is bad.

[RunDogGun]

There are many killers walking the streets period.

http://azdailysun.com/news/state-and-re ... 770cf.html

The right to bear arms and defend yourself is too important.
Otherwise only the bad guys have guns.
Also, how will you survive the zombie apocalypse

Note: Not arguing with you about GZ/Martin. Only your stance that the "stand you ground law" is bad.

Getting rid of this law does not affect the right to bear arms. So far it has only hindered cases from prosecuting murderers that took the law into their own hands. And me being against this law, does not mean I want all guns gone, and I don't think I have even implied that in anything I have said about this case, or any other post I have made here. I don't even see the correlation between the law, and your second paragraph.

As far as the zombie apocalypse, I would much rather use a chainsaw and a sword. I am still not convinced that a mere gunshot will stop them. However, if you cut off their head, they can't bite you.

[bigfoot]

There are many killers walking the streets period.

http://azdailysun.com/news/state-and-re ... 770cf.html

The right to bear arms and defend yourself is too important.
Otherwise only the bad guys have guns.
Also, how will you survive the zombie apocalypse

Note: Not arguing with you about GZ/Martin. Only your stance that the "stand you ground law" is bad.

Getting rid of this law does not affect the right to bear arms. So far it has only hindered cases from prosecuting murderers that took the law into their own hands. And me being against this law, does not mean I want all guns gone, and I don't think I have even implied that in anything I have said about this case, or any other post I have made here. I don't even see the correlation between the law, and your second paragraph.

As far as the zombie apocalypse, I would much rather use a chainsaw and a sword. I am still not convinced that a mere gunshot will stop them. However, if you cut off their head, they can't bite you.

Fair enough ... you did not say you wanted guns gone ... just that the law is unfair. I'm not a raging NRA member and really don't think assault rifles are good idea either. However, these defense laws provide other really valuable benefits. If you are truly defending yourself you are protected against both criminal charges and civil suits.

http://www.wisn.com/r/9950016/detail.html

As far the zombie apocalypse ... maybe you need practice

http://www.crazymonkeygames.com/Boxhead ... -Wars.html

[LBCsun49]

mark my word

Zimmerman will be not guilty for 2nd degree murder due to stand your ground law

He will be guilty for disobeying police order.

Zimmerman will be a rich man after this. He is going to counter sue the media for discrimination or slander. I would even press charges against the heat and the NBA for supporting something prematurely.

This is going to be a crazy outcome!