Draft Day Trade Proposal

[Eoghan]

How do you do, Jazz fans? Bobcat's fan here.

Let's say the ping pong balls fall terribly for the Cats and they get the 4th pick, and the player they want isn't there. Would you consider:

trading Utah's two lottery picks (8 & 13?) and Raja Bell (bad contract)

for

Gerald Henderson, #4 pick, and filler (cash, future picks, whatever you think is fair)

I know Raja hasn't been great for you guys and that you'll need to start putting the finishing touches on your rebuild soon. I think Gerald could potentially start thanks to his defense, letting Hayward boost the bench's offense or at the least Gerald would be a nice 6th man.

Feel free to counter offer, trying to gain some perspective on how much value Utah's picks hold.

[babyjax13]

I'd do it, Henderson is a nice player and the 4th pick isn't something to sneeze at.

[Efernand]

Raja Bell will only have 1 year left on his contract at that point, hardly a bad contract. I would say its a pretty fair trade but I'd rather keep our picks as I'd argue that in this draft there isn't a huge difference between 4 and 8. I want the Jazz to draft a PG prospect and its probable that either Lillard or Marshall will be there at 8. After that they can go with the best available player with the 2nd pick.

[The59Sound]

Perfectly fair offer, and one I kind of like. Henderson is having a solid season and has improved every year. I might like to have a draft pick and a proven commodity, as opposed to two rookies on a very young team.

It does depend, in part, on who we like and where they'll be available, but at first blush, not a bad deal.

[countrybama24]

In all likelihood, we won't have the warriors pick, and it's becoming increasingly likely we won't have our pick either. Would you do the same trade for the warriors 2013 pick and the jazz pick? What about millsap and a future pick for maquette and the #4?

[finnegan]

If it were for #3 then it would be a no brainer, since Davis, Robinson. and Gilchrist are about as real as it gets. However; there is a drop-off at #4.

That being said, is seems to be a pretty fair deal, but I would probably prefer two picks and pick up some combination of Lilliard/Zeller/Marshall.

I would also be willing to do a deal to move to #7 to pick up Beal, but definitely not both picks for that.

[countrybama24]

Beal is gonna go top 5 and I think he is just as good as Robinson or MKG.

I also think there is little to no chance Cho trades a top 4 pick unless it's an offer that really blows him out of the water. He knows as well as anyone the formula is you gotta nail 3 top 5 picks (to get the two all-
star caliber core players) and get lucky on a few mid-first round or lower picks to build a contender. He seems to have the green light from MJ to be patient with the rebuild, so I just don't see it happening unless we move Kanter or something (which I probably wouldn't do).

[babyjax13]

Beal is the second best player in this draft.

[sendai91]

This is a really great trade offer - well done. The trade value is spot on. Here's my 2 cents, and why I think that the Jazz may ultimately pass, but it's very tempting

One of these players are likely available @ # 4: MKG, Beal, Robinson and Drummond if you like him ( I don't..). The problem is that the Jazz drafted or traded for 1st or 2nd year players similar to MKG ( Hayward), Robinson ( Favors) and Beal ( Alec Burks).

Of those three comparisons, I'd say that only Beal is likely to be (much?) better than Burks. Said differently, I don't think that MKG or Robinson would get more than 15-18 mpg next year on the Jazz. So, if Beal is on the board @ 4, we've probably got a deal.

If not, I think that the Jazz keep their #8 for Lillard or Marshall and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them trade # 13 or #14 for future assets.

Of course, this all assumes that the Jazz miss the playoffs and the GSW lottery ping pong balls bounce our way. I think that the deal is fair as listed - Henderson / Cha #1 for Bell, Utah picks - nothing else would be needed IMO..

[MeestR]

sure, sounds good to me. of course, this is only if warriors surrender their pick this year. if they hold on to it, then ide rather hold on to the warrior pick. (next year has slightly less protection on it)

[countrybama24]

sure, sounds good to me. of course, this is only if warriors surrender their pick this year. if they hold on to it, then ide rather hold on to the warrior pick. (next year has slightly less protection on it)

Next years draft is significantly less deep, and the warriors will be a fringe playoff team depending on injuries. The pick is significantly less valuable next year.

I think beal and burks would be fine together. We can easily trade the lesser of the two later unless one can guard point guards.

[reapaman]

In this scenerio (which it won't be but still), I would pass on the deal. Drummond could be a beast in 5-6 years but too raw and we got enough raw bigs. Robinson would be nice and he may be a type of big we need in the future if Kanter and/or Favors don't become much better scorers but I think we will get another chance at a guy like him in future years. And people killed me for saying Kawhi Leonard shouldve been a top 5 pick last year but people love MKG as high as #2 in what suppose to be a better draft. I don't get it. Beal could be really good but seems like a duplicate for Burks depending on how you look at it. As for henderson, he's nice and all but I would rather take a shot a getting jeremy lamb who has way more potential imo.

Plus I actually like taking a chance on a pg like Marshall with the lower pick. Haven't really examined msot of the prospects yet tho, so it may be a better chouce I'm missing. In reality tho KOC would probley pick Austin Rivers and Myler Leonard but hopefully it won't come too that.

[countrybama24]

@reapaman

I don't think we should be drafting for need. We need an all-star, and if robinson turns out to be one, then kanter becomes expendable (and/or we can trade al AND mill sap). If burks doesn't turn out, we're kicking ourselves for not taking beal (its not like we can't trade one later).

The pistons didn't take carmelo because they already had tayshaun. The blazers didn't want durant because they already had webster (maybe only 10% of their decision calculus, but still). Don't assume all our young players turn out. MKG is way better than kawhi too, he can handle the ball better, more of a playmaker, better finisher, slightly younger, more athletic, and fills a need. Similar, but one is much better imo.

We shouldn't' draft drummond. He shot 29% on free throws, so I'll agree with you there. I also only think lilard would be good for us. Kendall Marshall couldn't stay in front of ACC guards, he's gonna get torn up on the NBA.

[blackham9258]

Yes a thousand times over. You always take a chance to move up into the top #5. Only 14% of players make it as rotation players in the league at all from 11 and above. So we essentially are trading #8 for #4 which given MJ's stellar draft history is something that makes sense for him...

Stupid move for Charlotte.

[Hoops Addict]

Jazz would accept that trade......at #4 they select MGC or Beal.

no GS pick though.

[Eoghan]

In all likelihood, we won't have the warriors pick, and it's becoming increasingly likely we won't have our pick either. Would you do the same trade for the warriors 2013 pick and the jazz pick? What about millsap and a future pick for maquette and the #4?

1st ?: Probably not for the reasons eloquently stated above.

2nd ?: That's very tempting. It wouldn't take much enticing to move Maggette but since he's in a contract year next year, I don't think a future pick and Milsap would get him. Milsap definitely would fill a serious need though, rebounding and inside scoring. I actually think that would end up bad for both teams. Maggette would get injured and give you guys nothing while Milsap would play well enough to shortchange our rebuild.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since the original trade seems pretty favorable, how would you think about this tweak?

Instead of Bell, how about Burks?

Charlotte receives:
Burks, 2 Utah 1st rounders

Utah receives:
Cha #4 pick, Henderson

[reapaman]

Normally I would agree that we should move up if possible but in this case I think Lamb is the BPA. We can debate that another time but I just don't think we should pass lamb or Marshall for that matter up. Lamb too me has the most upside after Davis and mabey drummond but lets act like drummond doesn't exist for now. He's also is one of the most ready to play now while still fill a huge need for us on ball, off ball and defensively. To me Beal is too raw for me right now, MKG will be great but he's more of a Iggy jack of all trades type of guy rather than that elite wing scorer which is something most championsip teams need which is what lamb can be, and Robinson still relys way too much on his athletisim for a 21 y/o for my taste.

As for Marshall, I understand everything that is said about him from guys blowing by him, he can't shoot, his playmaking may not translate to the nba, ect... But I remind you that everything and I mean everything that is said about Marshall, was said about rubio before he came over here and was brilliant before he got injured. I know you remeber the endless hate on rubio right? Marshall has a very unquie and superior feel for the game and his play making skills are elite. Whatever he lacks in defense and shooting, he will more than make up for in getting his teammates better oppurtunities and his leadership abilities just like rubio. Marshall is a can't miss prospect imo because he makes everyone on the court better and getting him in the late lottery is a rondo like steal. Lilliard could be a very nice player but he just doesn't have that superior quality to him like marshall does with his playmaking abilities. You can find a shoot first pg but its tough to find one like marshall, so you waste no time in taking them and never look back.

[HolyToledo]

Only if Beal is there!

[countrybama24]

As for Marshall, I understand everything that is said about him from guys blowing by him, he can't shoot, his playmaking may not translate to the nba, ect... But I remind you that everything and I mean everything that is said about Marshall, was said about rubio before he came over here and was brilliant before he got injured.

I disagree a bit about Lamb / Beal / Robinson, but I'll save that for another time.

I'm really down on marshall. And actually, lots of the stuff Ricky was great at is a huge weak point for Marshall. I'm not just gobbling up DX on his word, but I watched a lot of UNC this year and I thought it generally confirmed what is said below. Our PG has to do two of three things:
-Shoot
-Play Defense
-Distribute

I don't think just doing one of those really well will get this team very far.

Rubio vs. Marshall

1. Defense

One of the most fun parts of seeing Rubio perform is watching him off the ball defensively. As the opposition moves the ball around the court, you can see Rubio anticipating their next move, closing down angles just as a pass is about to be made, pouncing at just the right moment, getting his long arms on the ball to create the deflection, and taking the ball the other way.

He also showed the lateral quickness to stay in front of most anyone he went up against, which allows him to play outstanding on-ball defense as well.

The defensive end, however, is perhaps the most concerning aspect of Marshall's game projecting to the next level, as his lack of quickness on this end of the floor is concerning in the dribble-drive centric NBA, and already is a problem against high level competition in college.

2. Athleticism (i.e. ability to break down NBA defenses, not just rack up fast break assists)

Rubio is a terrific ball handler, which considering his quickness, excellent first step, footwork and ability to change gears makes him really hard to stop whenever he decides to step into the lane.

Marshall's first step is below average and despite excellent craftiness and a good ability to change speeds, he lacks the top gears most NBA guards have, which often prevents him from getting to the second level on drives.

Kendall will be a solid distributor, but he's not a game changer, and he's a liability on defense. Who cares if he averages 12pts on 42% shooting and 11 dimes, if his opponents are dropping 23-8 on him (or more). A team like the Jazz has to be elite defensively to compete, given our lack of superstars.

I'd also like to point out I think Ricky Rubio is solid, but really overrated since he only marginally helps the offense given his lack of shooting. Actually, advanced states rate his defense as vastly superior to what he brings to the offense. NBA defenses are really, really good, the backcourt has to be able to spread the floor to make them pay for overloading the strong side. This is especially true for us given our lack of superstars, and interior oriented offense. Also neither Hayward nor Burks has proven to be especially great at shooting the three (although I think both will improve a lot), and if either one of them can't figure it out it only magnifies the importance of three point shooting.