James Harden is a superstar

dream_catcher_9 · Post #221 » by **dream_catcher_9** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:29 am

BmanInBigD wrote: Man, with 3 superstars, how does OKC ever lose a freakin game?!

23, 23, 22. that's their age.

I don't think Harden is a superstar, but even if he was OKC still is pretty inconsistent, which is normal for a young team.

C-izMe · Post #222 » by **C-izMe** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:02 am

If Harden was an average defender he would be a star. He still needs to come off the bench/have off the bench a Thabo level defender (which is about 5-8 people in the league) to be a very impact full player. On his own team I can see a Rajon Rondo level impact (all star not superstar).

JustCame · Post #223 » by **JustCame** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:09 am

Rapcity_11 wrote:
ahonui06 wrote:This thread is ridiculous. He isn't a superstar. There aren't very man superstars in the entire league.

Harden is a fringe all-star player in the same mold as Ginobili.

How many times are you going to come in here and repeat the same thing?

If he's the next Ginobili he basically is a future superstar...just needs to have more stamina and durability than Manu.

I don't think he'll ever get there though. Ginobili is so underrated.

CKRT · Post #224 » by **CKRT** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:26 am

C-izMe wrote:If Harden was an average defender he would be a star. He still needs to come off the bench/have off the bench a Thabo level defender (which is about 5-8 people in the league) to be a very impact full player.

No he doesn't. Brooks won't stagger the rotations so one of the three are on the floor at all times. If Harden starts then the bench will be devoid of any offensive talent, and that's a big deal when you only have 3 offensive threats on the entire roster.

fallacy · Post #225 » by **fallacy** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:30 am

Harden is the sixth perimeter player in NBA HISTORY to play over 30 minutes a game and have a ts% of over 65%

Not just in the last two years, forever

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... _by=ts_pct

LoyalKing · Post #226 » by **LoyalKing** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:15 am

The season is not over yet. Harden just had a 1-11FG 0-8 3-P shooting last game.

Plus, he is the only player in that list that is a bench player. All the other players are starters playing against starters.

Sorry, he is not a superstar. Whoever gives him a max contract will regret it big time.

I am calling it now and you guys can bookmark it.

Mamba Venom · Post #227 » by **Mamba Venom** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:54 am

He is an all-star not a superstar- only 5 superstars in the league at any time.

Collie · Post #228 » by **Collie** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:53 am

fallacy wrote:Harden is the sixth perimeter player in NBA HISTORY to play over 30 minutes a game and have a ts% of over 65%

Not just in the last two years, forever

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... _by=ts_pct

Along with such luminaries as Brent Barry, Mario Elie and Johnny Dawkins!

BmanInBigD · Post #229 » by **BmanInBigD** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:56 pm

Collie wrote:
fallacy wrote:Harden is the sixth perimeter player in NBA HISTORY to play over 30 minutes a game and have a ts% of over 65%

Not just in the last two years, forever

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... _by=ts_pct

Along with such luminaries as Brent Barry, Mario Elie and Johnny Dawkins!

Exactly. That's the "fallacy" of this guy's argument. That something is rare doesn't make it necessarily great. I guess he decided to use "perimeter" players for his pigeon-holed data after he was praising Harden for being on some stupid list with Cornbread Maxwell and Daryl Dawkins. :lol:

BmanInBigD · Post #230 » by **BmanInBigD** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:56 pm

Collie wrote:
fallacy wrote:Harden is the sixth perimeter player in NBA HISTORY to play over 30 minutes a game and have a ts% of over 65%

Not just in the last two years, forever

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... _by=ts_pct

Along with such luminaries as Brent Barry, Mario Elie and Johnny Dawkins!

Exactly. That's the "fallacy" of this guy's argument. That something is rare doesn't make it necessarily great. I guess he decided to use "perimeter" players for his pigeon-holed data after he was praising Harden for being on some stupid list with Cornbread Maxwell and Daryl Dawkins. :lol:

Rapcity_11 · Post #231 » by **Rapcity_11** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:09 pm

Who some of you guys like Harden more if he jacked up mid-range jumpers, scored a few more points a game and saw he efficiency drop? That's basically what a bunch of people are saying.

BmanInBigD · Post #232 » by **BmanInBigD** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:23 pm

Rapcity_11 wrote:Who some of you guys like Harden more if he jacked up mid-range jumpers, scored a few more points a game and saw he efficiency drop? That's basically what a bunch of people are saying.

No, and I don't think anyones's implying that. We're just saying let's hold off on annointing him to the HoF just because he's playing his role very well and is high on a list using arbitrary criteria. I would LOVE him on the Mavs, but as a second or third option. We already have a "superstar". If he continues to improve and can and does carry his team for stetches of games/seasons, bearing the scoring or facilitating load on his shoulders night after night, in crunch time and playoffs, then we can talk about his status. The steps get harder and harder to make the more you produce. TONS of guys have had seasons where they looked like they were gonna easily take it to through the next few levels but never did.

That's all we're saying. He may get there but we sure as heck don't know right now.

sixerswillrule · Post #233 » by **sixerswillrule** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:48 pm

Rapcity_11 wrote:Who some of you guys like Harden more if he jacked up mid-range jumpers, scored a few more points a game and saw he efficiency drop? That's basically what a bunch of people are saying.

I think the gist is that as the focal point of an offense for 38 minutes per game, he would have to take less efficient shots. I agree though that since his efficiency is so ridiculously high right now, it wouldn't be crazy to think that he could put up maybe 22 points on 60% TS, which would put him close to superstar status. Of course, his efficiency is so high that it could likely drop even if he were to stay in this role.

fallacy · Post #234 » by **fallacy** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:55 am

Just a 90+ TS% and scored 40 tonight on 17 shots. That's normal efficiency right?

Mo26 · Post #235 » by **Mo26** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:09 am

Best SG in the game.

CKRT · Post #236 » by **CKRT** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:13 am

Holy balls.

EarlTheGoat · Post #237 » by **EarlTheGoat** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:16 am

LoyalKing wrote:The season is not over yet. Harden just had a 1-11FG 0-8 3-P shooting last game.

Plus, he is the only player in that list that is a bench player. All the other players are starters playing against starters.

Sorry, he is not a superstar. Whoever gives him a max contract will regret it big time.

I am calling it now and you guys can bookmark it.

40.

ahonui06 · Post #238 » by **ahonui06** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:43 am

Still not a superstar. Impossible to be a superstar as a third option.

You can't anoint someone a superstar until they carry the team burden on their back. Durant does that for OKC, not Harden.

Krodis · Post #239 » by **Krodis** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:23 pm

Given he has a concussion, I think there's a good chance he doesn't play again in the regular season, making his stats final:

16.8/4.9/3.7 (19.2/4.7/4.1 per 36) on .660 TS%. 3rd in WS/48.

Plus the very high rating in RAPM and the like.

I don't know about "superstar", but Harden is very good and very important to the Thunder.

dream_catcher_9 · Post #240 » by **dream_catcher_9** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:07 am

Krodis wrote:Given he has a concussion, I think there's a good chance he doesn't play again in the regular season, making his stats final:

16.8/4.9/3.7 (19.2/4.7/4.1 per 36) on .660 TS%. 3rd in WS/48.

Plus the very high rating in RAPM and the like.

I don't know about "superstar", but Harden is very good and very important to the Thunder.

that .660 TS% is #2 in the NBA

here are some other advanced stats...

.582 eFG% is #1 in the NBA
125.3 ORTG is #3 in the NBA
7.5 OWS is #5 in the NBA

I used to think Westbrook and Durant were miles ahead of James as a player, not anymore. I think if Harden was given Westbrook's or Durant's usage he would out produced both.