At what point do we swap Thames/Snider?

[flatjacket1]

As far as Thames is concerned, is there anyone that thinks he really has a chance to become decent with more time? I understand keeping him up as a place holder as that's most likely all that is happening but what skills or part of his game have a chance to improve?

I just don't see any talent in his game, especially for such an awful, awful fielder (yes I cant let it go). I mean for that defense you would expect a higher .iso than .051, especially in the AL east .. He is not providing any speed either.

His war is down to -0.4.

Nobody is debating that he isn't a place holder and that he doesn't have much potential, I'm just trying to say that Snider needs more time in the minors. He has always pup up nasty stat lines in AAA, even when he was abysmal in 2011. He needs more time for a larger sample size on plate discipline.

I've always said that Snider is the better player now and in the future, but we need him to not come up and chop the ball into the dirt until we need to send him down again. Vegas is filled with bad pitchers and great hitters parks which make it a nasty hitting environment.

add baserunning as well to things that Thames does horribly. didn't cost us in the end, but that attempted steal was ridiculous. he needs to hit better for us to put up with his fielding and running gaffes

Oh you know for a fact that he tried to steal because he thought he could take 3rd? Not because he took a hit and run sign from Butterfield or miss read a sign? By that definition (a single case of bad baserunning) is Lawrie an even worse base runner than Thames? He tried to steal HOME with the BASES LOADED while BAUTISTA was at bat. That's worse anyways.

[Attonitus]

Nobody is debating that he isn't a place holder and that he doesn't have much potential, I'm just trying to say that Snider needs more time in the minors. He has always pup up nasty stat lines in AAA, even when he was abysmal in 2011. He needs more time for a larger sample size on plate discipline.

I've always said that Snider is the better player now and in the future, but we need him to not come up and chop the ball into the dirt until we need to send him down again. Vegas is filled with bad pitchers and great hitters parks which make it a nasty hitting environment.

You openly contradict yourself by saying that he needs more time in a place that stunts his development.

The worst case situation is Snider comes up and plays just as bad as Thames offensively and much better defensively. If he does struggle at the plate, he still is no more negative value than Thames and maybe he finally gets some time to work it out in the majors, something he's never been given before. It's better he work things out against major league pitching anyway (assuming he still has something to work out, his ST/AAA numbers would suggest otherwise).

Even if we agreed that Snider still needs time in the minors, like a few have posted before me, Davis would be a much more suitable placeholder.

[flatjacket1]

Nobody is debating that he isn't a place holder and that he doesn't have much potential, I'm just trying to say that Snider needs more time in the minors. He has always pup up nasty stat lines in AAA, even when he was abysmal in 2011. He needs more time for a larger sample size on plate discipline.

I've always said that Snider is the better player now and in the future, but we need him to not come up and chop the ball into the dirt until we need to send him down again. Vegas is filled with bad pitchers and great hitters parks which make it a nasty hitting environment.

You openly contradict yourself by saying that he needs more time in a place that stunts his development.

The worst case situation is Snider comes up and plays just as bad as Thames offensively and much better defensively. If he does struggle at the plate, he still is no more negative value than Thames and maybe he finally gets some time to work it out in the majors, something he's never been given before. It's better he work things out against major league pitching anyway (assuming he still has something to work out, his ST/AAA numbers would suggest otherwise).

Even if we agreed that Snider still needs time in the minors, like a few have posted before me, Davis would be a much more suitable placeholder.

Can you specify where? I never said AAA stunts his development. I said he has always been able to hit in AAA, despite his struggles in 2011. He needs to be ready as in proper swings and such. Scouts need to say hes ready, not stats.

I'm not debating that Snider is currently the better player, because defensively alone hes worth around +1 DWAR which is huge. He could hit REALLY bad and still be better. The truth is has to permanently change his approach and swing to be successful 5 years from now. Why be short sighted and say "Hey, he will help us win more games this year" instead of "Hey if he stays in the minors another 2 months, he will be a better player in 5 years".

If you think Davis is a better placeholder then I have no argument, I'm fine with either to be honest. I would rather Thames just because his ceiling is higher (than Davis's) but I can understand the reasoning behind Davis. It's worth noting that Thames has a higher career BA, OBP, SLG, OPS than Snider.

It has never been a question of whether or not Snider can hit in AAA. It's about the process not that statistics down there. Just like with how Lawrie was asked to stay down until he walked more, struck out less and played better defense, Snider should have similar expectations. I am a true believer in Snider and I think 5 years from now he could easily be an AS quality LF, or possible even GG. I see him as a young Wells.