Discussing Other NBA Games 2.0

Post #561 » by **Ruzious** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:34 am

hermitkid wrote:No offense rlg25, but it's absolutely absurd to assert that the elbow was unintentional.

He's clearly aware of Harden and cocks his elbow to deliver a blow.

Plus 1. Anyone excusing that incident in ANY way... is rationalizing to the nth degree.

Post #562 » by **Ruzious** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:40 am

hands11 wrote:
Halcyon wrote:First of all, I don't think he "wanted" to hurt Harden. However, it's pretty clear to me after watching it multiple times that he instinctively reacted to bumping into somebody by swinging his elbow to move something/somebody out of his way.

Whatever the case, he needs to be held accountable for what he did. Still pretty damn stupid and irresponsible. I would imagine he gets suspended the rest of the season + playoffs, and probably more games to begin the next season. His saving grace might be that he didn't look at Harden before swinging his elbow, which would have looked way more intentional.

I think playoffs + 10 games total.

Reckless and irresponsible.

It was definitely a get the F out of my way. Man coming through. Arrraawwwwww

Roid rage move. Did you see the look in his eyes when he did it. Crazy eyes.

Who knows what he could see regarding who it was. These guys have pretty good peripheral vision. He could have seen enough to know how tall the person was. Who know. Just a dangerous thing to have someone on the court capable of doing something like that. I mean if your another player on the floor, do you want to play knowing this crazy guy is out there.

But then again, hitting someone while they are going up off balance is dangerous also. Its a dangerous game when players get physical.

What happen to Kareem when he cold sucker punch that guy the face ?

Benson was the punk in that incident. Sure, what Kareem did was wrong, but when you're incited like he was by Benson, you can't just let Benson get away with what he was doing. I'm a Bucks fan, and I respect Benson's college career at Indiana, but he was the equivalent of a hockey goon when he was in the NBA. He obviously couldn't compete playing like a man.

closg00 · Post #563 » by **closg00** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:51 am

Artest tweet FWIW

I just watched the replay again..... Oooo.. My celebration of the dunk really was too much... Didn't even see James ..... Omg... Looks bad

Post #564 » by **Ruzious** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:59 am

closg00 wrote:Artest tweet FWIW

I just watched the replay again..... Oooo.. My celebration of the dunk really was too much... Didn't even see James ..... Omg... Looks bad

If I was Commissioner, I'd be inclined to double whatever suspension I was considering - after reading that. I'd tell him - after every disingenuous tweet, I'll double your suspension. Shut your piehole, and maybe I'll let you play some of next season. You wanna be out of the NBA for life, keep tweeting.

verbal8 · Post #565 » by **verbal8** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:49 pm

I would be very surprised if Artest plays in the play-offs. I think 10-12 games + playoffs would be my best guess at the suspension.

I fall more on the side of it being a crazy reaction to someone being in his way, rather than him deliberately trying to take Harden out. I don't think that removes much blame from Artest, but if he was targeting Harden I think it would be season/lifetime ban territory.

Wizards2Lottery · Post #566 » by **Wizards2Lottery** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:41 pm

verbal8 wrote:I would be very surprised if Artest plays in the play-offs. I think 10-12 games + playoffs would be my best guess at the suspension.

I fall more on the side of it being a crazy reaction to someone being in his way, rather than him deliberately trying to take Harden out. I don't think that removes much blame from Artest, but if he was targeting Harden I think it would be season/lifetime ban territory.

The fact that he's prone to such incidents should be what leads to the life time ban.

You can't trust him on the court. This could have been much worse. Don't take the chance anymore.

Nivek · Post #567 » by **Nivek** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:53 pm

Whether it was a "crazy" reaction or intentional really doesn't/shouldn't matter. The result was the same -- Harden catching elbow to the head and suffering a concussion. If it was "crazy" reaction, Artest should be given a lengthy suspension because he was out of control in a way that's totally unacceptable on a basketball court. If it was intentional, he should be given a lengthy suspension because his action was unacceptably dangerous on a basketball floor. Then layer in that it's Artest AGAIN.

go'stags · Post #568 » by **go'stags** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:58 pm

Agreed on the lengthy suspension. Like Durant said, it's not a basketball move, and he really hammered Harden. I just don't feel it was intentional.

Post #569 » by **montestewart** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:49 pm

From what I can see, those that are "excusing" Artest recognize that he was out of control, that he created danger, that he harmed Harden (who to me is a far more likeable player than Artest ever was, if that matters at all), that Artest has a history, and that the league must respond. Pardon us if we're not in addition gathering with torches at the foot of the castle.

fishercob · Post #570 » by **fishercob** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:07 pm

go'stags wrote:Agreed on the lengthy suspension. Like Durant said, it's not a basketball move, and he really hammered Harden. I just don't feel it was intentional.

Here's my question for thos who don't think it was intentional: what do you think his true intent was? Was he trying to elbow the air? Why would anyone every make the motion Artest made without the intent to elbow someone or something -- hard?

Post #571 » by **Zonkerbl** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:13 pm

It was absolutely intentional. Artest knew Harden, or somebody, was there, and he absolutely reared back and cold cocked him as hard as he could and could've killed the guy.

It may not have been "premeditated," whatever that means. Karl Malone did the same thing to Isiah Thomas and did not get the punishment he deserved. Roid rage just has no place in the NBA. At all.

pancakes3 · Post #572 » by **pancakes3** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:32 pm

fishercob wrote:
go'stags wrote:Agreed on the lengthy suspension. Like Durant said, it's not a basketball move, and he really hammered Harden. I just don't feel it was intentional.

Here's my question for thos who don't think it was intentional: what do you think his true intent was? Was he trying to elbow the air? Why would anyone every make the motion Artest made without the intent to elbow someone or something -- hard?

Personally? To me, the "unintentional" part is that he didn't intend to catch harden in the noggin and cause a concussion. What he did intend to do is catch someone in the chest maybe even chin, just to be a dick. To me, it ranks a 6 out of 10 on the malicious scale, a few shades beyond unnecessarily flailing your elbows after grabbing a rebound, more or less on par with undercutting someone who's jumping or clotheslining someone on an intentional foul.

maybe the penalties should be a touch harsher considering the outcome of that errant elbow, but it's a far cry from what went down in Detroit all those years ago.

Post #573 » by **nate33** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:33 pm

doclinkin wrote:However, in his own defense I suspect he'll only be able to say he has no idea what happened. He lashed out but wasn't thinking about it. wasn't really aware he was doing it. And that very fact is the most damning indictment of him: his lack of self-control is now once again dangerous to the product on the floor.

Exactly.

I might actually be more forgiving if it was premeditated. But it wasn't. It was just the act of a wildly unstable human being. The man doesn't belong on a basketball court. Ban him for life.

closg00 · Post #574 » by **closg00** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:10 pm

nate33 wrote:
doclinkin wrote:However, in his own defense I suspect he'll only be able to say he has no idea what happened. He lashed out but wasn't thinking about it. wasn't really aware he was doing it. And that very fact is the most damning indictment of him: his lack of self-control is now once again dangerous to the product on the floor.

Exactly.

I might actually be more forgiving if it was premeditated. But it wasn't. It was just the act of a wildly unstable human being. The man doesn't belong on a basketball court. Ban him for life.

Agree, Artest must be banned from the NBA, they don't know when the next "incident" is going to happen.

go'stags · Post #575 » by **go'stags** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:56 pm

fishercob wrote:
go'stags wrote:Agreed on the lengthy suspension. Like Durant said, it's not a basketball move, and he really hammered Harden. I just don't feel it was intentional.

Here's my question for thos who don't think it was intentional: what do you think his true intent was? Was he trying to elbow the air? Why would anyone every make the motion Artest made without the intent to elbow someone or something -- hard?

I honestly think he was so excited and hyped about the dunk that his emotions got the best of him for a second-he more or less blacked out. He was flexing or whatever and when Harden got in his way Artest's instincts took over, which unfortunately told him to get that object out of the way. The way he kept hopping down the court like he didn't just give a guy a concussion makes me positive that it was not on purpose.

To answer your question, there was no "intent", at least not consciously. At first this made me hope he wouldn't be banned for life, but after thinking about it more I may agree with Nate. If things like this are at risk of happening, maybe he shouldn't be on the court at all. It's too bad. I love Artest/World Peace.

Post #576 » by **Zonkerbl** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:06 am

Dude, you're insane. Watch the video again and tell me Artest has no idea what he's doing.

go'stags · Post #577 » by **go'stags** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:51 am

I've watched it plenty of times. He did not do it intentionally, which, as Nate said, may be worse.

Post #578 » by **Ruzious** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:54 am

go'stags wrote:I've watched it plenty of times. He did not do it intentionally, which, as Nate said, may be worse.

I'm not sure it's possible to swing an elbow like that unintenitionally. He loaded up on it, and swung with full force at a person right in front of him. If you mean, exactly what part of the head he hit was unintentional, then maybe I can agree with that, but there was definitely intent - and he did what he intended to do.

Post #579 » by **Zonkerbl** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:45 pm

He felt Harden's elbows, pulled his arm back and swung it as hard as he could. Do you see something different? The only thing that makes it possibly "unintentional" is that he doesn't actually turn toward Harden.

I feel sorry for Artest. He's a truly gifted athlete and, when he's able to control his temper, a nice guy. It's a shame the only way to ensure the safety of the players around him is to remove him from the sport entirely. But it has to happen.

go'stags · Post #580 » by **go'stags** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:02 am

This may be getting past the point now, but my point is that he did not mean to intentionally injure or even hit James Harden. I think he was seeing red or whatever color a crazy person sees when filled with adrenaline and bumped into an object-James Harden-and attempted to move the object. His way of doing it was with an elbow, so in that way it was intentional.

Agreed on your second paragraph, Zonk. I'v always had a thing for genuinely nice people who are "out there", so to speak, which is why Gil and Artest are my 2 favorite athletes. In his post-game interview Kobe dismissed the notion that it was intentional, saying how sweet of a guy Artest is. But he probably needs to be banned for others safety. It's a shame.