Memphis Grizzlies

[Jester_]

Zac's definitely better. Not denying that.

I don't get this narrative of Gasol being better than Bogut though. Statistically, prime Bogut is much, much better than Gasol.

This is Gasol's best year. His adjusted impact number this year is +2.9 (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking12_no_prior).

Bogut in his best year prior to the freak injury was a +4.5 (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking10).

As usual people just like overrating players on hearsay alone. I'd like to hear someone like EvanZ chime in and tell me whether or not my stats are right, but from what I can tell, prime Bogut is a significantly better player than prime Gasol. People forget exactly how dominant Bogut was that one year -- he was a force to be reckoned with around the league. Gasol doesn't carry nearly that reputation.

But, y'know, let's just stick to played out narratives like Curry is useless on D, Rondo is a god and Udoh is a scrub. That always gets us far. Bogut lead a pretty sh*tty FTD team to nearly 50 wins. If Gasol is so much better, I'd like to know why Memphis isn't a finals threat year in year out with the kind of talent that's on that roster.

[Chaos Engine]

50 wins in the crappy east. If Memphis was in the east they'd have a great shot we'd all be calling them contenders.

[migya]

Randolph is so much better than Lee

And Current Gasol is better than recent Bogut

Gay is world's better than anything we've got at SZF

Allen>>Klay

Conley>>>>>.Curry


They have much more talent and much better coaching.

That's it. Conley isn't that much better than Curry but he does his job a bit better. Whatever anyone wants to say, Memphis is one of the best in the West and nba this season and their best player was injured for most of it. 2nd best injured for a while as well.

[curryshimmy]

Zac's definitely better. Not denying that.

I don't get this narrative of Gasol being better than Bogut though. Statistically, prime Bogut is much, much better than Gasol.

This is Gasol's best year. His adjusted impact number this year is +2.9 (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking12_no_prior).

Bogut in his best year prior to the freak injury was a +4.5 (http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ranking10).

As usual people just like overrating players on hearsay alone. I'd like to hear someone like EvanZ chime in and tell me whether or not my stats are right, but from what I can tell, prime Bogut is a significantly better player than prime Gasol. People forget exactly how dominant Bogut was that one year -- he was a force to be reckoned with around the league. Gasol doesn't carry nearly that reputation.

But, y'know, let's just stick to played out narratives like Curry is useless on D, Rondo is a god and Udoh is a scrub. That always gets us far. Bogut lead a pretty sh*tty FTD team to nearly 50 wins. If Gasol is so much better, I'd like to know why Memphis isn't a finals threat year in year out with the kind of talent that's on that roster.

I like this thread but I think the grizzlies are a much better team than they're getting credit for. I look for them to knock out the clippers in the first round.

And ur talking about boguts prime which is in the past compared to gasols prime which is just beginning. So I would rather have gasol. Randolph is better than David lee. Gay is indisputably better than wright. I would rather have Klay over Allen. Just bc we know how good Allen is. Klay could and should keep improving. look there's a reason the grizzlies are where they are and did it without Randolph. I don't see us doing that if our best player gets hurt. They did very well in te playoffs without Rudy gay. It's scary to think what this team can do when they're healthy.

Oh and rondo is a god!!!!

[Jester_]

And ur talking about boguts prime which is in the past compared to gasols prime which is just beginning. So I would rather have gasol. Randolph is better than David lee. Gay is indisputably better than wright. I would rather have Klay over Allen. Just bc we know how good Allen is. Klay could and should keep improving. look there's a reason the grizzlies are where they are and did it without Randolph. I don't see us doing that if our best player gets hurt. They did very well in te playoffs without Rudy gay. It's scary to think what this team can do when they're healthy.

Oh and rondo is a god!!!!

Your logic doesn't make sense. First you pick Gasol based on upside, and then you choose NOT to pick Klay even though you admit he has upside -- so what's your game?

Also Bogut is like one year older than Gasol, so I'm not sure why you think Gasol is "just entering his prime". Those numbers I pulled out are for both of these players when they were at the same age. It was one year ago. You really think Bogut has regressed that much?

[curryshimmy]

I picked Klay and gasol because of their upside. Gasol may only be 1 year younger, but he has 4 less injuries than Bogut and seems to be improving while Bogut is declining. Not to mention gasol is on a much deeper team than Bogut was. Milwaukee needed boguts offense. Bogut is right behind gasol in my mind but in a few years I think he might be farther away

[Jester_]

Who says Bogut is declining? Sorry, but your take overall doesn't make any sense. Injuries fine, but I'm assuming Bogut is healthy.

[curryshimmy]

Who says Bogut is declining? Sorry, but your take overall doesn't make any sense. Injuries fine, but I'm assuming Bogut is healthy.

I think it's generous to assume he will stay healthy. Just basing it off of his injury history and the history of athletes who get hurt, find a way to get hurt again and again. I hope ur right and Bogut is better than Marc and healthy. I would just feel more comfortable with Marc back there. We will see though. If Bogut returns to his old self I will be happy. I think the bucks must of had te same worries as me

[Sleepy51]

Who says Bogut is declining? Sorry, but your take overall doesn't make any sense. Injuries fine, but I'm assuming Bogut is healthy.

I think it's generous to assume he will stay healthy. Just basing it off of his injury history and the history of athletes who get hurt, find a way to get hurt again and again. I hope ur right and Bogut is better than Marc and healthy. I would just feel more comfortable with Marc back there. We will see though. If Bogut returns to his old self I will be happy. I think the bucks must of had te same worries as me

I'm staunchly pro-Bogut, but there is something to this. Guys who get hurt a lot tend to get hurt for one of two reasons:

1) They don't take care of their bodies. Fat guys, guys who don't life weights, Guys who drink too much, guys who are prone to loafing endanger themselves with the occasional bout of 100% exertion. I don't think Bogut falls into that category.

2) Guys who push the envelope of their athletic capability. Guys like Crash, guys like Tmac. Even the guys who take phenomenal care of their bodies do have comfort zones for their athletic potential. Those guys who play the game on the edge of out of control (or log too many highlight dunks y'all) tend to operate outside of that athletic comfort zone too often. There are such a thing as physically high risk plays. Jumping for a rebound in an of itself is not a physically high risk play. Jumping while moving laterally to aggressively rebound outside your zone is a higher risk play. The chances of something going wrong physically increase significantly when you exert yourself to the level where you compromise some level of coordination. AR leaping over guys and landing on his head is an obvious illustration of this issue.

Bogut probably falls into the 2nd group. He may have played consistently at the edge of his physical potential often enough to increase his chances of "freak" injury. So as he recovers the question becomes will he continue to push the envelope, and if he does not continue to push the envelope to the same degree, how much of his positive performance will be sacrificed to keep him on the court more consistently?

I still think Bogut is going to be fantastic, but it's a legitimate question.

[turk3d]

One thing that I think needs to get factored into some of these discussions which is not all always is the chance that we could get the get being compared to (in this case Gasol). No way were going to be able to sign him because Memphis was matching (similar to the Clips and Jordan) or outbid by us (similar to Philly and Brand, and the Wizards and Arenas aren't we lucky).

Considering what we got in Bogut, at our most needed position, and all we had to pay, I don't think there was a better deal out there for us. I can't think of any other Center we could have acquired out there (and that included Dwight and his attitude and his recent injury). Just the thought of having two boat anchor Center in Andris and Jordan for the next several years makes me want to shoot myself or become a King fan.

[Quackenboss]

Zac and Gasol are clearly better than Lee and Bogut.

Jester you sure are cocky about how good you think GS will be next year.

Out of sight, out of mind. Everyone thought Deron Williams was better than Chris Paul when Paul missed half of the 09/10 season.

[curryshimmy]

I'm gonna try to be more positive about Bogut. He's a huge upgrade at a position we desperately needed. It doesn't matter if he's the 3rd or 4th or 5th best center in the league. I think Marc is better but like Turk said we couldn't get marc