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2012 NBA Draft Lottery

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Re: 2012 NBA Draft Lottery 

Post#21 » by Knighthonor » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:36 am

Dr Mufasa wrote:
fishercob wrote:For the record, I dismiss any notion that the lottery could possibly be fixed. Back in 1984? I dunno, maybe. Now? No way. The league would expose itself to billion dollar lawsuits from defrauded franchises, owners, cities, etc. There's just no way the lottery is fixed -- especially with this ping pong ball system. They're not pulling envelopes out of a drum anymore.


The two main reasons there is 0.0000% chance the lotto is fixed: The people in the room while the draws happen include

- Team representatives
- Ernst & Young accounting firm which is ranked 8th biggest company in the USA. They're also the ones who put the teams in the envelopes.

There is 0 chance the NBA could fraud the lotto with those 2 parties there specifically to make sure it isn't rigged

Like poster below your post said.
It's easy to rig the ball machine. That's the kind of illusions that professional illusionist do for a living.

Also that doesn't exclude the possibility that those big corps are in on it.

Not like the USA fed government hasn't hid stuff from the public before. Why can't this private organization do the same?
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft Lottery 

Post#22 » by wackywabbit » Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:41 am

Jay81 wrote:But the mechanics of the ping ball machine could be rigged. I am sure there is a way to fool those in the room


No. The lottery is not rigged, but people will argue that the outcome was fixed regardless of how it turns out.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft Lottery 

Post#23 » by dangermouse » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:35 am

Broadcast the draw. Put the "its rigged" conspiracy theory to bed. Its so simple.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft Lottery 

Post#24 » by jangles86 » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:05 pm

I'm gonna predict that we win it. The second worst record hasnt won it in 16 years (philadelphia in 1996 drafting Iverson, 1994 Milwaukee won it drafting Glenn Robinson, The last one before that was Magic drafting Shaq in 1992.

Seems like an even year type of thing :D
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft Lottery 

Post#25 » by fishercob » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:07 pm

fishercob wrote:With the tank watch all but over, we can now focus on what could end up being the biggest night in franchise history.

The lottery will be held on May 30 -- in NYC this year and not in Secaucus.

With the Wizards all but locked in to the second worst record, the Wizards' odds will break out as follows:

19.9% chance at #1 pick
18.8% chance at #2 pick (38.7% chance of picking 1 or 2)
17.1% chance at #3 pick (55.8% chance of picking top 3)
31.9% chance at #4 pick (87.7% chance of pick top 4)
12.3% chance at #5 pick (44.2% chance of picking 4th or 5th)



Provided we can hold on to the #2 lotto spot -- and even if we can't and end up splitting 2/3 with New Orleans -- I am starting to feel very hopeful about our chances of landing one of Davis or Beal.

Obviously as stated above, we have about a 4 in 10 chance of picking top two.
But we have an almost 9 in 10 chance of picking top 4, and because of who else is in the lottery, their needs, and where they are likely to be picked, there just are not a ton of scenarios where Beal is off the board if we pick top 4.

Let's go team by team, for giggles. Assume everyone takes Davis is they pick first. Obviously this is based on today's standings; I'll probably update this in a week.

Charlotte: Just drafted Kemba. Recently drafted Gerald Henderson. Gaping hole at SF and PF. Very likely to take either Robinson or MKG over Beal.

New Orleans: Gordon is their best player. Very likely to take Robinson or MKG over Beal.

Sacramento: Just drafted Jimmer and Tyreke Evans. Isaiah Thomas might be better than both. Just signed Marcus Thornton. Not taking a SG.

Cleveland (20.4% chance of picking 2nd or 3rd): Most credible threat to move up and pick Beal. They have nothing on the wings, like us. Their shooting need isn't quite as dire, so they could conceivably prefer MKG. If h's off the board, they definitely take Beal over T-Rob (with Thompson and Varajeo in the fold).

Portland (17.5% chance of picking 2nd or 3rd between their two picks): Moderate threat to take Beal. They are not completely bare at SG -- have Wes Matthews and Elliot Williams and potentially Crawford if he doesn't opt out. But Beal is a likely upgrade over those guys and they could be set at forward with Batum and Aldridge. I could see them gambling on Drummond or takign RObinson and moving LMA to center. But Beal has to be considered a possibility.

Toronto (10.7% chance of picking 2nd or 3rd): Badly need shooting. But also have Derozan at SG and desperately need SF and rebounding help. I'd expect Robinson or MKG over Beal.

Golden State (7.2% chance of 2nd or 3rd): This is the Utah pick. Utah cannot move up into the top 3 because GS would then keep the pick. They just traded Ellis so they could play Klay Thompson. I think they'd be much more likely to take MKG (huge hole at SF) or Robinson (could play with either Lee or Bogut and help limit Bogut's minutes).

Detroit (4.4% chance at 2 or 3): Need frontcourt help badly. Have Gordon, Stuckey, Knight, in the backcourt. Prince is signed long term at SF. I think they'd go Robinson if he's there. If not, and they;re choosing between MKG and Beal, i think they go MKG. Could roll the dice on Drummond too,

Milwaukee: Just traded for Monta Ellis. Not taking Beal.

Houston (1.6% chance of 2nd or 3rd): Martin has only one year left on his deal, so Beal could be an option. But they also have Courtney Lee and really need an infusion of young talent up front.

Phoenix: (1.3% chance of 2nd or 3rd) Badly need a young shooting guard. Could take Beal, though I could reasonably see them taking RObinson.

So i think our scenarios of not getting Davis or Beal are limited to:

--Cleveland jumping ahead of us choosing Beal over MKG
--Portland jumping us and Robinson is already off the board
--Houston or Phoenix getting insanely lucky

I really, really, like those chances -- especially given YODA's assessment of Beal's freshman year comparing well with Harden's, JOrdan's and Drexler's. Here's hoping.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft Lottery 

Post#26 » by nate33 » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:35 pm

Nice breakdown Fishercob.

So basically, if we pick 3rd, we're almost sure to get Beal (because Cleveland or Portland would take MKG or Robinson respectively if they pick 2nd).

If we pick 4th, the odds are still pretty good that we pick Beal unless Cleveland or Portland pick 3rd and their top non-Davis option was taken by someone else at #2. That's a lot of if's. It really looks like we don't have to worry too much unless we fall to 5th. At that point, it's definitely possible that whoever picks 4th considers Beal to be the BPA regardless of their particular needs. Our odds of getting Beal at #5 might be down around 50%.

So it looks like the odds are 19.9% that we land Davis.
The odds are about 70-75%% that we are in position to grab Beal.
And the odds are only about 5-10% that Beal won't be available when we draft.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft Lottery 

Post#27 » by fishercob » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:46 pm

Thanks nate. I think Cleveland would take Beal over MKG. They could simply conclude he's the better player and take him, since they have glaring needs at both wing spots.

That said, I pretty much agree with you odds assessment. I might adjust our adds at being in a position to grab Beal down slightly (say 65% - 70%). If Nivek has to send YODA to the shop for repairs, maybe he could run all of the actual probabilities for us.

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Re: 2012 NBA Draft Lottery 

Post#28 » by miller31time » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:47 pm

Awesome write-up fish (and nate). I was already liking this draft and our positioning and that was sort of the cherry on top of the sundae.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft Lottery 

Post#29 » by Dat2U » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:12 pm

Looking at the lottery history, there's something to being in either the 5th or 6th position in any given year. More often than not, one of those two positions will move into the top 3. This year it's Cleveland and Toronto. I can't see Cleveland pulling an Orlando and striking two times in a row so my gut is telling me Toronto is a strong sleeper pick to win the lottery.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft Lottery 

Post#30 » by Rafael122 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:56 pm

Can you imagine if the Raptors won the lottery tho? Davis and JV as part of their front court. Sick.

BTW, waiting an entire month for the actual draft lottery is horse manure. If the draft entry deadline is the 29th and the playoffs start the 28th, then the draft lottery should be held on the 27th giving college kids a day to pull out if necessary.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft Lottery 

Post#31 » by fishercob » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:21 pm

I need to update my post from earlier this week now that the final standings are set, but don't have time this morning. That said, Cleveland's monster late-season tank job makes them a really credible threat to jump ahead of us for Beal.

The Nets now have a slightly better shot at moving up into the top 3 and keeping their pick. I think they'd go with the local kid MKG (ironically enough from new Jersey) over Beal. They would love him in New York.

More later or this weekend.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft Lottery 

Post#32 » by Rafael122 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:28 pm

Seems like there were a couple of coin tosses today, apparently Golden State is picking 7th which means they keep their pick and Toronto is picking 8th.

And the Cavs beat the Hornets and Lakers, they now pick 3rd and 24th. Well, 3rd for now, they could always move up.

VERY interesting, one would hope the Wizards don't finish 4th. We pretty much have to pick at 2 now to get Beal.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft Lottery 

Post#33 » by gesa2 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:34 pm

Rafael122 wrote:Seems like there were a couple of coin tosses today, apparently Golden State is picking 7th which means they keep their pick and Toronto is picking 8th.

And the Cavs beat the Hornets and Lakers, they now pick 3rd and 24th. Well, 3rd for now, they could always move up.

VERY interesting, one would hope the Wizards don't finish 4th. We pretty much have to pick at 2 now to get Beal.


Raf, the Cavs aren't set at 3 anymore than we're set at 2. It could easily shake out after the lottery that we go 4th and they go 5th. And I don't think GS is guaranteed the pick until after the lottery. They'd lose it if someone 8 or higher gets in the top 3 and they don't, 'cause they'd then be picking 8th.
Making extreme statements like "only" sounds like there are "no" Jokics in this draft? Jokic is an engine that was drafted in the 2nd round. Always a chance to see diamond dropped by sloppy burgular after a theft.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft Lottery 

Post#34 » by closg00 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:19 pm

30-Day countdown until we find-out our fate. Bets on who gets Davis?
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft Lottery 

Post#35 » by mohammed10 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:28 pm

closg00 wrote:30-Day countdown until we find-out our fate. Bets on who gets Davis?


Realist in me says Charlotte...they are supposed to have the best shot, right?

Conspiracy theorist in me says New Orleans - since David Stern and friends own them
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft Lottery 

Post#36 » by nate33 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:52 pm

I did the Lotto Machine 10 times. We got 1st three times; 2nd four times; 3rd once; and 4th twice. If I was picking, that would mean Davis 3 times, Beal 5 times, and Robinson twice.

I'm not happy that Chad Ford seems to have MKG and Beal going 2nd and 3rd on nearly every iteration. I was hoping that we'd still end up with a wing player even if we fell to 4th. A lot will depend on the measurements. If Robinson has legit PF size, he'll move back up into the top 3. If Drummond impresses with freakish athleticism, he could move ahead of Beal/MKG as well. Also, I think Beal is going to drop a bit if he measures out to be just 6-4 in shoes with a 6-7 or less wingspan.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft Lottery 

Post#37 » by MJG » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:13 pm

I gave it ten shots as well, and was not as lucky:

4: Beal
4: Beal
4: Beal
5: Drummond
4: Beal
5: Drummond
2: MKG
5: Drummond
4: Beal
3: Beal

I have a feeling it'll be hard to duplicate a run of ten that bad again. Though I suppose if we wind up with Beal, it doesn't really matter whether we finish 2nd or 3rd or 4th.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft Lottery 

Post#38 » by nate33 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:20 pm

MJG wrote:I gave it ten shots as well, and was not as lucky:

4: Beal
4: Beal
4: Beal
5: Drummond
4: Beal
5: Drummond
2: MKG
5: Drummond
4: Beal
3: Beal

I have a feeling it'll be hard to duplicate a run of ten that bad again. Though I suppose if we wind up with Beal, it doesn't really matter whether we finish 2nd or 3rd or 4th.

:eek1:

Dude, don't even watch the TV when they have the drawing. I want you as far away from the venue as possible. Do you think you can schedule some kind of vacation overseas or something?
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft Lottery 

Post#39 » by Nivek » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:20 pm

My 10-shot run:

2: MKG
3: Beal
3: Beal
2: MKG
5: Drummond
1: Davis
2: MKG
5: Drummond
1: Davis
3: Beal

This draft lottery is a mess. The most likely outcome for the worst team is to move DOWN in the draft order.
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Re: 2012 NBA Draft Lottery 

Post#40 » by Zonkerbl » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:28 pm

That's by design. It's to discourage teams from tanking.
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