Leafs Offseason Discussion

Post #61 » by **Morris_Shatford** » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:52 pm

whysoserious wrote:With the way Quick is playing, does Bernier become available. He hasn't played as much as Schneider and is still highly touted as a prospect but might come cheaper than trying to get Luongo or Schneider.

I think the Leafs just need to do anything in their power to land a legit A1 starter who has proven they can be an A1 starter, no more Raycroft and Toskala A1 or B1 style starters.

Bernier may be good, but its time to land someone who will be good.

With the Luongo hate going on in Vancouver and that massive deal I think he can be had for a reasonable cost, and if you are going to be tied to a huge contract it may as well be attached to an elite goaltender.

whysoserious · Post #62 » by **whysoserious** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:16 am

^^^

It's funny listening to Brady and Lang in the morning talk a little bit about Luongo. He gets all the blame and he doesn't usually steal you a game a la Joseph/Brodeur/Roy and the like. But they noted that he has great regular season numbers and his numbers only get better in the playoffs.

I'm not against going for Luongo, I'm afraid with his contract, it limits us from going after a legit number one centre too. I'm sick of the Raycroft like experiments too, but I think Bernier is better than those guys were ever projected to be.

All I can say is it will be an interesting off-season and I'm hoping BB is very proactive and not reactive.

Post #63 » by **Morris_Shatford** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:43 pm

whysoserious wrote:^^^

It's funny listening to Brady and Lang in the morning talk a little bit about Luongo. He gets all the blame and he doesn't usually steal you a game a la Joseph/Brodeur/Roy and the like. But they noted that he has great regular season numbers and his numbers only get better in the playoffs.

I'm not against going for Luongo, I'm afraid with his contract, it limits us from going after a legit number one centre too. I'm sick of the Raycroft like experiments too, but I think Bernier is better than those guys were ever projected to be.

All I can say is it will be an interesting off-season and I'm hoping BB is very proactive and not reactive.

Luongo may not be a goaltender that wins you a cup; but he is a goaltender who can help get you there and right now mission critical is the playoffs.

I think a lot of Leaf fans overrate the need for more help up front;
The Leafs scored 231 goals this season, that's more goals then:

Rangers, Panthers, Devils, Caps of the Eastern Playoff teams, and St. Louis, Phoenix, Los Angeles, and San Jose of the Western Playoff teams,

Whereas the Leafs allowed 264 goals which was second worst in the NHL next to Tampa and their 282.

While the Leafs forwards are unspectacular scoring isnt the Leafs biggest problem, its their goaltending by miles.

Relentless88 · Post #64 » by **Relentless88** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:14 pm

I think the need for help up front has more to do with size and tougness than scoring. I think everyone knows this top 6 group of forwards can score, but they are all small and soft. That's why they're allowing a lot of goals. Hopefully Carlyle can instill some defensive schemes, but I'd be surprised if they go into next season with this same top 6.

Though I agree, goaltending is their biggest problem and that should be addressed asap. Especially after watching Quick, Lundqvist, Thomas and even Holtby in these playoffs, we see how significant elite goaltending is in the NHL.

KayJay_02 · Post #65 » by **KayJay_02** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:33 am

Relentless88 wrote:I think the need for help up front has more to do with size and tougness than scoring. I think everyone knows this top 6 group of forwards can score, but they are all small and soft. That's why they're allowing a lot of goals. Hopefully Carlyle can instill some defensive schemes, but I'd be surprised if they go into next season with this same top 6.

Though I agree, goaltending is their biggest problem and that should be addressed asap. Especially after watching Quick, Lundqvist, Thomas and even Holtby in these playoffs, we see how significant elite goaltending is in the NHL.

I agree. This is why I really want the leafs to draft Galenchyuk. He is a great two way player. I read a scouting report on him a week or two ago and it said he could become one of the elite two way players in the league. Also, for our Bottom six, we need some more grit. I could see Penner (I wouldn't be mad if its a one year 1 million dollar deal), Travis Moen, he was with Anaheim plus brings so veteran experince, and sammi pahlsson, brings some veteran presence and grit. Guys in the top 6 that could be options is Dustin Bwn and JVR.

whysoserious · Post #66 » by **whysoserious** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:54 pm

Morris_Shatford wrote:Luongo may not be a goaltender that wins you a cup; but he is a goaltender who can help get you there and right now mission critical is the playoffs.

I think a lot of Leaf fans overrate the need for more help up front;
The Leafs scored 231 goals this season, that's more goals then:

Rangers, Panthers, Devils, Caps of the Eastern Playoff teams, and St. Louis, Phoenix, Los Angeles, and San Jose of the Western Playoff teams,

Whereas the Leafs allowed 264 goals which was second worst in the NHL next to Tampa and their 282.

While the Leafs forwards are unspectacular scoring isnt the Leafs biggest problem, its their goaltending by miles.

I think Luongo gets a bad rep based on Vancouver expectations. I mean Kesler has been crap for 25 games including the playoffs, but it's Luongo's fault at this time. I wouldn't mind Lu here, he'd definitely settle the goaltending down and give us a steady back end.

When it comes to Lu though, I believe he has a NT clause and I'm pretty sure if he's not happy with the media scrutiny in Vancouver, he's not gonna want to come here. The team that makes the most sense is TB which sucks for us. I think we should try for Lu/Schneider/Bernier this off-season for sure. Those should be the main 3 targets.

As for the need up front, when was the last time a team one with a guy like Bozak as the lead Center? Bozak had a fine year. This goes back to the Sundin era and how he always got stuck with mediocre wingers for the majority of his time here. Skilled guys lift other mediocre players up a notch, but they can't make them stars. You're right that scoring is not a major problem, although under Carlyle this team will be less risky but there is still a need for top end skilled players in that top 6, Bozak and Kulemin and McArthur aren't really gonna cut it in your top 6. Although the last two could be valuable on a second line. I think with a third line mix of scoring and grit though and upgrades to your first and second line, those two might not be needed.

Here's another name who's having an unbelievable playoffs despite his team being down - Jordin Staal, big centre, plays as a second/third line kind of guy, could you pull off a deal for him and see if he'll fit between Kessel/Lupol. Plus he's good enough defensively that Carlyle will love him.

KayJay_02 · Post #67 » by **KayJay_02** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:24 pm

^^^^^
I really do love Jordan staal. This guy is a border line first line player. He's stuck behind malkin and Crosby, and with the pens out in the first round, I could see them trading him away to get more skilled wingers. Imagine if we added both Staal and Galenchyuk. Two great centers with size, skill and defensive skill.

whysoserious · Post #68 » by **whysoserious** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:26 pm

Did not realize that Jordan Staal was restricted this off-season.

Is there a deal to work out where Staal and Marc-Andre Fleury end up in Toronto, Luongo and pieces to Pittsburgh and something to Vancouver?

I would put our number 5 in play with Schenn and Kadri and maybe a future first as well and any prospect other than Gardiner in play for that deal.

Drake_02 · Post #69 » by **Drake_02** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:28 pm

whysoserious wrote:Did not realize that Jordan Staal was restricted this off-season.

Is there a deal to work out where Staal and Marc-Andre Fleury end up in Toronto, Luongo and pieces to Pittsburgh and something to Vancouver?

I would put our number 5 in play with Schenn and Kadri and maybe a future first as well and any prospect other than Gardiner in play for that deal.

I didn't know that Jordan staal was a RFA this year. Anyway, I think weird realistic to think Jordan staal could be a leaf next year, but I don't see Pittsburgh moving fleury. He had one bad playoff, but if he has another one, then maybe they think about moving him. Also I read something off the site My NHL trade rumors saying that Vancouver would move Kesler because they don't like they way he is playing. I would love to see Kesler in Toronto.

http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/2012/04 ... -blueline/

whysoserious · Post #70 » by **whysoserious** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:09 pm

Kesler would be amazing in Toronto.

As for Staal/Fleury, I don't even believe we have the assets to make that move. But Pittsburgh has now gotten knocked out early two years in a row and hasn't won the cup in years. So a Fleury for Luongo Swap on their team and maybe Staal out for a Schenn type guy on the blue line might bolster that team, throw in some picks/prospects.

Drake_02 · Post #71 » by **Drake_02** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:20 pm

whysoserious wrote:Kesler would be amazing in Toronto.

As for Staal/Fleury, I don't even believe we have the assets to make that move. But Pittsburgh has now gotten knocked out early two years in a row and hasn't won the cup in years. So a Fleury for Luongo Swap on their team and maybe Staal out for a Schenn type guy on the blue line might bolster that team, throw in some picks/prospects.

I don't even think Pittsburgh would even consider Luongo for Fleury. In that trade, Pittsburgh gets an older goalie who hasn't even won the cup yet. Only way Vancouver gets fleury is if they offer Schniede, Kassian and more.

whysoserious · Post #72 » by **whysoserious** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:21 pm

Fleury is not going to Vancouver, it would be a third team involved where Van gets something, Fleury goes somewhere else and Pittsburgh gets Luongo. It's a huge stretch but it could be a worthy gamble for Pittsburgh, it's been a while and maybe they need a shakeup of sorts and Crosby and Malkin ain't going anywhere.

Drake_02 · Post #73 » by **Drake_02** » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:34 pm

whysoserious wrote:Fleury is not going to Vancouver, it would be a third team involved where Van gets something, Fleury goes somewhere else and Pittsburgh gets Luongo. It's a huge stretch but it could be a worthy gamble for Pittsburgh, it's been a while and maybe they need a shakeup of sorts and Crosby and Malkin ain't going anywhere.

I see what your saying, but in the end Pittsburgh needs to get a lot in return, because they are pretty much trading away fleury and getting luongo. I think Pittsburgh needs to add some more defence, so I wouldn't be surprised if they trade Staal for a D-man.

Post #74 » by **Crowned** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:54 am

There's no way Vancouver trades Kesler this offseason. They're not about to have a firesale because they were eliminated in the playoffs. They'll make a few tweaks, and go with a similar team next year.

whysoserious · Post #75 » by **whysoserious** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:28 pm

I agree Crowned, they're not in blow up mode but I think if the team struggles along next year or is not living up to expectations, maybe by next deadline they start listening on Kesler. He's so perfectly suited to lead this team.

I can't even believe listening to the radio that Leafs fans actually are against getting Luongo. They're not even talking about what assets we'd have to give up (which I think would be a fair argument). They're just spewing the same crap that we hear, there are many that actually believe getting a one of the top 10 goalies in the league now and for the last 10 years is a bad idea and still have faith in Reimer.

The mentality that permeates in this fanbase is ridiculous and there is no pressure on this organization to improve. There are rational arguments for getting him and not getting him, but the rationale being provided on the radio from so many fans is absolutely ridiculous. It's been almost 50 years, when the eff is this fanbase/organization gonna wake up?

Relentless88 · Post #76 » by **Relentless88** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:47 pm

So Luongo has asked for a trade? I wonder what he would cost? Would we have to give up our #5? I assume he'll be cheaper than Schenider because of his long contract, but how much cheaper?

Drake_02 · Post #77 » by **Drake_02** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:26 pm

Relentless88 wrote:So Luongo has asked for a trade? I wonder what he would cost? Would we have to give up our #5? I assume he'll be cheaper than Schenider because of his long contract, but how much cheaper?

I don't think Luongo has ASKED for a trade, but he did say he would waive his NTC. I don't think it would cost our top 5 pick, but maybe Scrivens and a 2nd.

Drake_02 · Post #78 » by **Drake_02** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:30 pm

Random thought: Do you think BB will trade the top 5 pick and more for Nash? If he does, he could potentially trade our number one center for someone who needs one. Kinda like the Kessel deal.

Drake_02 · Post #79 » by **Drake_02** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:37 pm

REPORT:
Toronto is one of the teams on Luongo's list that he would waive his NTC. Tampa Bay is also on that list.

_venom_ · Post #80 » by **_venom_** » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:23 pm

I would only go after Luongo if he'll come for cheap. Vancouver would have to take back a contract to make up some of the difference (Komisarek, Connolly, Lombardi). I definitely wouldn't include a 1st rd pick in the deal. I'd be willing to do something like Kadri/2nd/Lombardi for Luongo, and that's probably the most I'd give up.