A Worthless Season? I think not.

hankscorpioLA · Post #1 » by **hankscorpioLA** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:25 pm

I can understand the frustration of the folks who felt we NEEDED to tank this season. I really do. If you feel like this team is just not talented enough, then it is natural to want to get the top pick.

What I DON'T understand is this notion that this was a "wasted" season.

The reason we aren't in the discussion for one of the top picks is precisely because of the progress that took place on the floor this season. In one season, with no major roster changes and with all the limitations associated with having a new coach for the lockout-shortened season, the Raptors went from being one of the softest teams in the NBA to arguably one of the toughest.

And that progress has been noted around the league.

With the addition of an outstanding prospect in Jonas Valanciunas, a top 10 pick from this year's draft, and a full offseason for Dwane Casey to work with his players, next year's product on the floor should show marked improvement from this year.

In other words, just because we did not accomplish one of the supposed goals this season (finishing with one of the worst records in the league) does not mean we accomplished nothing at all.

comet883 · Post #2 » by **comet883** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:30 pm

I agree completely with you, just the point of many of the posters is that they dont want the raptors to bcome another treadmill team as they really do not have a legit first option scorer or a PG of the future. If you could have told me at the start of the year we were adding PJIII and Val, I would be happy. Its the time to go for a homerun in the draft take the big risk on a player and hope it pays off.

jrsmith · Post #3 » by **jrsmith** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:31 pm

AbC? · Post #4 » by **AbC?** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:32 pm

Worthless? No. Not nearly as fruitful as it should have been? Absolutely.

dagger · Post #5 » by **dagger** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:32 pm

comet883 wrote:I agree completely with you, just the point of many of the posters is that they dont want the raptors to bcome another treadmill team as they really do not have a legit first option scorer or a PG of the future. If you could have told me at the start of the year we were adding PJIII and Val, I would be happy. Its the time to go for a homerun in the draft take the big risk on a player and hope it pays off.

No, I think PJ3 is a third strike swinging.

As for treadmill, if we don't have a star coming out of this draft, if we can't score a coup or two with trades or free agency, we will be back at this again next season, one injury away from a top 10 pick.

ImissJordan · Post #6 » by **ImissJordan** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:33 pm

We need top-end talent very sorely. The best way to do that is the draft.

We intended to stink from the outset, except we didn't really because we brought in Casey, rode vets like Bargnani, Calderon, Barbosa and Kleiza for the better part of the season (when healthy, etc).

We were a bottom four team for much of the season, which is not even remotely enjoyable except for the fact that we believed we'd have a shot at some of the top picks in this draft.

We now have the 8th best odds.

You are an eternal optimist, Hank. Kudos to you.

Edited to add: I do believe we will be competitive next year, but not as competitive as I would've LIKED us to be.

ATLTimekeeper · Post #7 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:35 pm

hankscorpioLA wrote:
The reason we aren't in the discussion for one of the top picks is precisely because of the progress that took place on the floor this season.

We were three games ahead of the second worst team in the league in a shortened season. The three games of progress isn't worth the five to six draft slot difference. It was wasted in that the goal was to get one of those high picks, and we didn't accomplish that goal.

I'd say it was also wasted in that DeMar and Ed regressed in efficiency and didn't show a significant amount of potential.

TCHOKE · Post #8 » by **TCHOKE** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:35 pm

this team is so frustrating!@

JamesNaismith · Post #9 » by **JamesNaismith** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:36 pm

I didn't read and I don't care what "justification" you made....

Teams like CLE, SAC and GSW all tanked and the additional 2-3 wins didn't do ANYTHING AT ALL to HELP this franchise LONG TERM. You can give whatever ramble but we didn't need at least 2 of those wins and we certainly didn't need yesterday's game for any reason either. If every wing prospect is off the board when we draft (which is highly likely) we just f'd ourselves for the next 4+ years. Wonderful.

sewerfrosh · Post #10 » by **sewerfrosh** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:37 pm

1 more win then we had last years regular schedule and a few give away wins at the end of year, could have been a 27 - 30 wins easily. Isn't it time for predictions at first of season be reviewed. Most people guessed 10 - 15, i'm looking forward to next years improvement, were not as bad as most posters make us to be,

hankscorpioLA · Post #11 » by **hankscorpioLA** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:37 pm

comet883 wrote:I agree completely with you, just the point of many of the posters is that they dont want the raptors to bcome another treadmill team as they really do not have a legit first option scorer or a PG of the future. If you could have told me at the start of the year we were adding PJIII and Val, I would be happy. Its the time to go for a homerun in the draft take the big risk on a player and hope it pays off.

I don't agree.

I think our first option scorer is, and will continue to be, Andrea Bargnani.

And I think we already hit a home run with Jonas.

Based on talent, work ethic, and attitude, there is no reason why Jonas Valanciunas cannot be one of the top 3-5 centers in the NBA...and possibly the best.

And I feel confident in saying that with one of the best centers in the NBA backing him up, Andrea Bargnani would be a much more efficient and effective player for the Raptors.

comet883 · Post #12 » by **comet883** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:38 pm

JamesNaismith wrote:I didn't read and I don't care what "justification" you made....

Teams like CLE, SAC and GSW all tanked and the additional 2-3 wins didn't do ANYTHING AT ALL to HELP this franchise LONG TERM. You can give whatever ramble but we didn't need at least 2 of those wins and we certainly didn't need yesterday's game for any reason either. If every wing prospect is off the board when we draft (which is highly likely) we just f'd ourselves for the next 4+ years. Wonderful.

GS didn't help themselves when they beat MIN their fans should be irate
CLE did nothing for themselves beating NY
SAC won two one point game in the past month.

For every team you could easily take away 2-3 wins...

hankscorpioLA · Post #13 » by **hankscorpioLA** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:38 pm

Warned

comet883 · Post #14 » by **comet883** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:40 pm

hankscorpioLA wrote:
comet883 wrote:I agree completely with you, just the point of many of the posters is that they dont want the raptors to bcome another treadmill team as they really do not have a legit first option scorer or a PG of the future. If you could have told me at the start of the year we were adding PJIII and Val, I would be happy. Its the time to go for a homerun in the draft take the big risk on a player and hope it pays off.

I don't agree.

I think our first option scorer is, and will continue to be, Andrea Bargnani.

And I think we already hit a home run with Jonas.

Based on talent, work ethic, and attitude, there is no reason why Jonas Valanciunas cannot be one of the top 3-5 centers in the NBA...and possibly the best.

And I feel confident in saying that with one of the best centers in the NBA backing him up, Andrea Bargnani would be a much more efficient and effective player for the Raptors.

I just don't think a team can win a championship with Barg as the first option, he's a greta player better than most make him out to be. But I think he's much better as a second option type of player.

And also, you can't build around a player that hasn't played a game in the NBA yet

TheDunc · Post #15 » by **TheDunc** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:40 pm

This is how i see it, Casey is the type of coach who can make players overachieve. I think hes a great coach and can take us to the promise land. Problem is we are really in need of some more talent. Hopefully BC can work his magic this offseason.

wtfbosh · Post #16 » by **wtfbosh** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:41 pm

We're definitely going to improve, but the only way we would ever acquire a marquee player is through the draft. As of now, we have a collection of role players and supposed "star" in Bargs that averages 20/5. Nobody wants to be perennial first round exit fodders, but with this crew, that's the only fate we really have for the next 2-3 years.

Basketball_Jones · Post #17 » by **Basketball_Jones** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:42 pm

Progress? Demar struggled, Amir/Davis combo regressed, Bargs had 13 good games and a ton of bad ones that pretty much erased that, Bayless is still injury prone and will never have a chance at starting here, Johnson is nice but he can't shoot, and these late season wins were on the backs of a couple of D-Leaguers that won't even be on the team next season. To top it off, we won't end up with one of the wing players that would help this team immediately if we stay 8th. The only hope this team has is a guy playing in Lithuania right now who probably won't even start next season. Sad times.

wtfbosh · Post #18 » by **wtfbosh** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:45 pm

Basketball_Jones wrote:Progress? Demar struggled, Amir/Davis combo regressed, Bargs had 13 good games and a ton of bad ones that pretty much erased that, Bayless is still injury prone and will never have a chance at starting here, Johnson is nice but he can't shoot, and these late season wins were on the backs of a couple of D-Leaguers that won't even be on the team next season. To top it off, we won't end up with one of the wing players that would help this team immediately if we stay 8th. The only hope this team has is a guy playing in Lithuania right now who probably won't even start next season. Sad times.

JV will start eventually, but I think Casey's wacky rotations will ensure Gray or whatever vet C we bring in will start for the first 15-20 games or so.

lucky777s · Post #19 » by **lucky777s** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:46 pm

hankscorpioLA wrote:
I don't agree.

I think our first option scorer is, and will continue to be, Andrea Bargnani.

And I think we already hit a home run with Jonas.

Based on talent, work ethic, and attitude, there is no reason why Jonas Valanciunas cannot be one of the top 3-5 centers in the NBA...and possibly the best.

And I feel confident in saying that with one of the best centers in the NBA backing him up, Andrea Bargnani would be a much more efficient and effective player for the Raptors.

So you are happy to stick with Bargs as the franchise player and first option? You are obviously putting a great deal of faith in those first 12 games. I can't get there. Need much more evidence of real change. I think he will remain the guy we have known for so many years now.

And calling Val a homerun before he plays a single game is ...optimistic...to put it politely. Do I think he legitimately has the upside you speak of, yes I do, but I have no idea what year 1 or 2 will look like or if he can reach his full potential here.

We NEEDED a high draft pick this year to get the best shot at another star level player. Its a big blow to take at the end of this horrible season.

Kabookalu · Post #20 » by **Kabookalu** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:46 pm

Basketball_Jones wrote:Progress? Demar struggled, Amir/Davis combo regressed, Bargs had 13 good games and a ton of bad ones that pretty much erased that, Bayless is still injury prone and will never have a chance at starting here, Johnson is nice but he can't shoot, and these late season wins were on the backs of a couple of D-Leaguers that won't even be on the team next season. To top it off, we won't end up with one of the wing players that would help this team immediately if we stay 8th. The only hope this team has is a guy playing in Lithuania right now who probably won't even start next season. Sad times.

Our defense has significantly improved and accountability is finally injected into the team. In order for that to have happened, the players needed to regress and they improved over the course of the season.