Enes Kanter + Derrick Favors or Anthony Davis + Bismack Biyo

[Concept Coop]

This is easily Davis and Biyombo.

Anyone that thinks this is easy, isn't very familair with Kanter and Favors. They are FAR less redudant than Davis and Biyombo.

Kanter is the only guy with ideal size, and he fits very well with Favors, when we talk about potential.

Kanter is going to be slept on, and I don't blame people. He plays in a small market and didn't put up big numbers this year. But, the potential that make him a top 3 pick is there. I see him putting it together.

[Kabookalu]

Kanter and Biz are equally raw, in terms of what they will each become in the NBA. Bismack is not going to learn to be a basketball player on the job. He will do what he does now, better. He is so limited on one side of the court, and less ideally sized.

Give me Kanter, the guy with the most upside - which is only reason to value either of them, at this point.

Kanter is raw but not more raw than Biyombo, c'mon that's a ridiculous thing to say. And normally I would agree that a player couldn't overcome his complete rawness as Biyombo's, but his ability to learn is on another level. His work ethic is top notch, but his ability to listen may arguably be better. There are guys who are hard workers but have so much pride that they can't implement whatever they're taught easily because it's hard to accept that they're lacking in that area. Biyombo is different.

[Kabookalu]

This is easily Davis and Biyombo.

Anyone that thinks this is easy, isn't very familair with Kanter and Favors. They are FAR less redudant than Davis and Biyombo.

Kanter is the only guy with ideal size, and he fits very well with Favors, when we talk about potential.

Kanter is going to be slept on, and I don't blame people. He plays in a small market and didn't put up big numbers this year. But, the potential that make him a top 3 pick is there. I see him putting it together.

Kanter was a guy I wanted for the Raptors last year. What I'm saying has more to do with how high I am of a Davis and Biyombo combo. That's a defensive juggernaut of a front court and I don't see their offense being nearly as bad as everyone would think.

[Concept Coop]

Kanter and Biz are equally raw, in terms of what they will each become in the NBA. Bismack is not going to learn to be a basketball player on the job. He will do what he does now, better. He is so limited on one side of the court, and less ideally sized.

Give me Kanter, the guy with the most upside - which is only reason to value either of them, at this point.

Kanter is raw but not more raw than Biyombo, c'mon that's a ridiculous thing to say. And normally I would agree that a player couldn't overcome his complete rawness as Biyombo's, but his ability to learn is on another level. His work ethic is top notch, but his ability to listen may arguably be better. There are guys who are hard workers but have so much pride that they can't implement whatever they're taught easily because it's hard to accept that they're lacking in that area. Biyombo is different.

Kanter will always be more polished. That's what I am saying. In professional sports, you don't learn on the job. You improve and get better, and learn aspects - but you are what you are once you hit a professional level.

Biyombo will always be what he is now, although he will improve. Same with Kanter.

[Concept Coop]

This is easily Davis and Biyombo.

Anyone that thinks this is easy, isn't very familair with Kanter and Favors. They are FAR less redudant than Davis and Biyombo.

Kanter is the only guy with ideal size, and he fits very well with Favors, when we talk about potential.

Kanter is going to be slept on, and I don't blame people. He plays in a small market and didn't put up big numbers this year. But, the potential that make him a top 3 pick is there. I see him putting it together.

Kanter was a guy I wanted for the Raptors last year. What I'm saying has more to do with how high I am of a Davis and Biyombo combo. That's a defensive juggernaut of a front court and I don't see their offense being nearly as bad as everyone would think.

If everyone reaches their potential, Kanter/Favors is the better fitting pair. If we are taking that into consideration, the conversation isn't an easy one to have, in my opinion.

Biz and AD are a nasty defensive combination, but they lack bulk and offensive ability.

*I am not sure what happens to AD offensively. I wouldn't be shocked to she him be a poor-mans KG offensively, but I wouldn't be suprised to see him always be limited in that aspect either.

Kanter/Favors is a very good defensive combo too. Kanter has post up ability and size to defend centers (man defense). Favors can be one of the better help defenders in the NBA. It's a nice mix - although, it would be nice if Favors was a mid-range threat too.

[Kabookalu]

Kanter will always be more polished. That's what I am saying. In professional sports, you don't learn on the job. You improve and get better, and learn aspects - but you are what you are once you hit a professional level.

Biyombo will always be what he is now, although he will improve. Same with Kanter.

And that's what I'm saying, Biyombo is different. I'm not saying that his offense will suddenly spike, but he can be adequate enough. His attitude is almost nothing I've ever seen in another NBA player, except for veterans, and this kid is only 19. You would almost think that he has no ego.

[Kabookalu]

If everyone reaches their potential, Kanter/Favors is the better fitting pair. If we are taking that into consideration, the conversation isn't an easy one to have, in my opinion.

Biz and AD are a nasty defensive combination, but they lack bulk and offensive ability.

*I am not sure what happens to AD offensively. I wouldn't be shocked to she him be a poor-mans KG offensively, but I wouldn't be suprised to see him always be limited in that aspect either.

Kanter/Favors is a very good defensive combo too. Kanter has post up ability and size to defend centers (man defense). Favors can be one of the better help defenders in the NBA. It's a nice mix - although, it would be nice if Favors was a mid-range threat too.

Davis is lacking bulk but he seems to be stronger than you would think he is. And although I can't say for certain, he may still be getting acclimated to his new freakish growth spurt. And for Biyombo strength actually isn't a problem. Pekovic was on a big man killing spree with near unmatched strength but they say Biyombo defended him better than any big man Wolves fans have seen. When he gets man handled on the inside, it has more to do with his lack of fundamentals and actual "knowledge" of how to defend post big men, which is why fundamental post scorers like Roy Hibbert had his number.

Offensively I do have concerns for Davis; he looked passive against a legit frontcourt in Zeller and Hensohn and sometimes he looked kind of limited. It's more wishful thinking but with reports of Davis having a great work ethic, I'm hoping that he eventually develops a post game, more face up than back down. The potential is there too, naturally with his freakish abilities.

I also agree that Kanter and Favors is a good combination. Kanter with his perimeter/inside game compliments Favors more inside game and there are times where I think Favors could be a poor mans Dwight Howard. I just happen to like Davis + Biyombo's future better (if there is one). We'll have to agree to disagree.

[sca]

He had a better season than Kanter

This is certainly wrong. Biyombo wouldn't even see the floor with the Jazz.

[Kabookalu]

He had a better season than Kanter

This is certainly wrong. Biyombo wouldn't even see the floor with the Jazz.

That's not relative.

[sca]

Let's remember that Bismack Biyombo played for one of the worst offensive teams in NBA history.

That only means that he was a part of that worst team ever. You talk like it's a good thing, it is not.

Let's remember that he played during a season that works against a young player the most; a lockout season with no summer league, shortened training camp, no contact with his superiors who could have given him a developmental program over the summer, and very few practices in between games.

This one also works for Kanter and other rooks who overcame those difficulties.

Easily the worst of the group? He had a better season than Kanter and is far rawer.

Maybe in an alternate universe, yeah, but there's no way, shape or form that Biyombo had a better season than Kanter. Biyombo blocks shots much better and is more athletic, but that's about it.

Sure his fundamentals look broken, but there are some fundamentals of his that look polished; it's a reflection of the lack of training he has gotten and also how much of a hard worker he is; he hasn't been trained properly, but whatever lessons he was given, he worked hard to perfect them.

Again, the lack of practice thing works for both players. Actually, it works much more for Kanter, who hadn't been playing competitive basketball for a long, long time.

This is easily Davis and Biyombo.

This comparison can go either way. It's just a matter of preference. But Kanter > Biyombo.

[Kabookalu]

That only means that he was a part of that worst team ever. You talk like it's a good thing, it is not.

You like to completely misinterpret points to favor your argument don't you?

This one also works for Kanter and other rooks who overcame those difficulties.

Never said they don't; that was in response to the topic in general relative to Davis and Favors.

Maybe in an alternate universe, yeah, but there's no way, shape or form that Biyombo had a better season than Kanter. Biyombo blocks shots much better and is more athletic, but that's about it.

Better defensively in general too, and while Kanter was a lot better offensively, he was hardly impressive at all in that regard.

[Ayt]

Kanter and Biz are equally raw, in terms of what they will each become in the NBA. Bismack is not going to learn to be a basketball player on the job. He will do what he does now, better. He is so limited on one side of the court, and less ideally sized.

Give me Kanter, the guy with the most upside - which is only reason to value either of them, at this point.

Kanter is raw but not more raw than Biyombo, c'mon that's a ridiculous thing to say. And normally I would agree that a player couldn't overcome his complete rawness as Biyombo's, but his ability to learn is on another level. His work ethic is top notch, but his ability to listen may arguably be better. There are guys who are hard workers but have so much pride that they can't implement whatever they're taught easily because it's hard to accept that they're lacking in that area. Biyombo is different.

Kanter will always be more polished. That's what I am saying. In professional sports, you don't learn on the job. You improve and get better, and learn aspects - but you are what you are once you hit a professional level.

Biyombo will always be what he is now, although he will improve. Same with Kanter.

I really don't agree with that statement at all.

[sca]

Better defensively in general too, and while Kanter was a lot better offensively, he was hardly impressive at all in that regard.

Hardly impressive? A lot of Kanter's struggles were on the offense. I'd say he was better on defense than he was on offense.

Just look at these facts and tell me who's the better player:
Bismack Biyombo
Height: 6-9
Weight: 245
Position: C / PF
Age: 19 years and 8 months
Experience: Rookie
Team: Charlotte Bobcats (7-59, .106)
GP: 63
GS: 41
MPG: 23.1
ORB%: 8.6
DRB%: 20.8
RB%: 14.5
eFG%: .464
TS%: .480
PER: 10.6
OppPER: 20.3
ORTG: 92
DRTG: 107
PTS/36: 8.1
REB/36: 9.1
AST/36: 0.7
STL/36: 0.5
BLK/36: 2.8

Enes Kanter
Height: 6-11
Weight: 262
Position: C
Age: 19 years, 11 months and 7 days
Experience: Rookie
Team: Utah Jazz (36-30, .545)
GP: 66
GS: 0
MPG: 13.2
ORB%: 13.9
DRB%: 22.7
RB%: 18.3
eFG%: .496
TS%: .539
PER: 14.5
OppPER: 14.6
ORTG: 105
DRTG: 105
PTS/36: 12.5
REB/36: 11.5
AST/36: 0.3
STL/36: 0.7
BLK/36: 0.9

Again, you're delusional if you think Biyombo is a better player right now. He just isn't. Deal with it.

[Concept Coop]

I really don't agree with that statement at all.

I would like to see some examples. The "He's only been playing basketball for X years" rarely means anything. They advance at the same rate as everyone else.

Biz isn't going to learn to be a fluid offensive player. He will never have a jumpshot. It just doesn't happen.

[Weems]

You can remove Biyombo and I'd take Davis over the Jazz duo.

[Kabookalu]

Better defensively in general too, and while Kanter was a lot better offensively, he was hardly impressive at all in that regard.

Hardly impressive? A lot of Kanter's struggles were on the offense. I'd say he was better on defense than he was on offense.

Just look at these facts and tell me who's the better player:
Bismack Biyombo
Height: 6-9
Weight: 245
Position: C / PF
Age: 19 years and 8 months
Experience: Rookie
Team: Charlotte Bobcats (7-59, .106)
GP: 63
GS: 41
MPG: 23.1
ORB%: 8.6
DRB%: 20.8
RB%: 14.5
eFG%: .464
TS%: .480
PER: 10.6
OppPER: 20.3
ORTG: 92
DRTG: 107
PTS/36: 8.1
REB/36: 9.1
AST/36: 0.7
STL/36: 0.5
BLK/36: 2.8

Enes Kanter
Height: 6-11
Weight: 262
Position: C
Age: 19 years, 11 months and 7 days
Experience: Rookie
Team: Utah Jazz (36-30, .545)
GP: 66
GS: 0
MPG: 13.2
ORB%: 13.9
DRB%: 22.7
RB%: 18.3
eFG%: .496
TS%: .539
PER: 14.5
OppPER: 14.6
ORTG: 105
DRTG: 105
PTS/36: 12.5
REB/36: 11.5
AST/36: 0.3
STL/36: 0.7
BLK/36: 0.9

Again, you're delusional if you think Biyombo is a better player right now. He just isn't. Deal with it.

I've seen nothing to indicate that Kanter is at all better defensively than offensively and that's saying something. His man defense maybe; he's a big body so of course naturally he'll be good on that virtue alone. However he's slow footed and his instincts for help defense are suited for a small forward. Biyombo while still lacking fundamentals defensively on a lot of areas, is super helpful because he hustles and defends the pick and roll hard.

Kanter had a really bad year. Biyombo too but I'd take his value over Kanter's.

[sca]

I've seen nothing to indicate that Kanter is at all better defensively than offensively and that's saying something. His man defense maybe; he's a big body so of course naturally he'll be good on that virtue alone. However he's slow footed and his instincts for help defense are suited for a small forward. Biyombo while still lacking fundamentals defensively on a lot of areas, is super helpful because he hustles and defends the pick and roll hard.

Kanter had a really bad year. Biyombo too but I'd take his value over Kanter's.

And this is it. I see no point arguing with you anymore. You just want to get your point across. You only believe what you want to believe. Well, enjoy Biyombo, I guess.

[Kabookalu]

And this is it. I see no point arguing with you anymore. You just want to get your point across. You only believe what you want to believe. Well, enjoy Biyombo, I guess.

Excuse me for not finding anything fascinating with a big man that only averaged 4/4 with no defense outside of man. Even considering the circumstances of the shortened schedule, that's a bad year; rebounding is good and finishing in isolation also solid, but then just as likely you'll see him not knowing what to do with the ball on a back to the basket post up, so it diminishes his most stand out trait coming into the league and all of a sudden his value hinged on strengths that aren't really strengths of his, other than rebounding.

[Ayt]

I really don't agree with that statement at all.

I would like to see some examples. The "He's only been playing basketball for X years" rarely means anything. They advance at the same rate as everyone else.

Biz isn't going to learn to be a fluid offensive player. He will never have a jumpshot. It just doesn't happen.

You need examples to disprove your statement that?

In professional sports, you don't learn on the job. You improve and get better, and learn aspects - but you are what you are once you hit a professional level.

The counterexamples are too numerous to list.