A petition to fight flopping

[SteveDobbs]

As a Bulls fan trying to find things to do with myself besides suicide, I decided to start a Change.org petition against flopping in the NBA.

All it took was 300,000 signatures on this site for Bank of America to drop their $5 debit card fee.

If you think, as I do, that flopping is ruining the game, go on there and sign the petition. It takes five seconds. In a couple hours with nothing other than posting on the general board here I have a handful of signatures.

http://www.change.org/petitions/nationa ... uspensions

Stern and the NBA obviously don't have to listen to Jeff Van Gundy, but maybe with enough people voicing their displeasure, they'd have to take the issue seriously and look at doing something, anything about it.

Mods feel free to lock if you don't want this on your team's board.

[Klomp]

JJ Barea objects to this thread

[Foye]

Petitions never lead to anything other than wasted time.

[The J Rocka]

Petitions never lead to anything other than wasted time.

With that kind of attitude, nothing would get done.

[LordBaldric]

There's a lot more wrong with NBA officiating than flopping. Off the top of my head the "Superstar Calls" system in general is a lot more damaging.

[Dewey]

There's a lot more wrong with NBA officiating than flopping. Off the top of my head the "Superstar Calls" system in general is a lot more damaging.

THis plus ... drives me insane when a close game is officiated "completely" different in the last 5 minutes than the entire game leading to that point. We'll go from a physical ball-busting environment to a tic-tac no-touch conclusion.

The flopping thing is faaaaaaaaaar from a seious problem compared to superstar calls and late game officiating.

[Devilzsidewalk]

they don't even need to go that far, just stop blowing the whistle. People are sick of cheap free throws and cheap flops, so take care of both and when you see somebody sprinting to the rim looking for free throws and the defender measuring his feet for a charge, play on.

Its like a parent shutting their crying brat up with candy every time they start screaming then standing there baffled as to why the kid keeps crying

[cpfsf]

Something needs to be done. We know flopping is effective and it lacks any deterrent, so you can probably expect the problem to get worse before it gets better.

[SteveDobbs]

Something needs to be done. We know flopping is effective and it lacks any deterrent, so you can probably expect the problem to get worse before it gets better.

Amen. Let's do something.

[C.lupus]

they don't even need to go that far, just stop blowing the whistle. People are sick of cheap free throws and cheap flops, so take care of both and when you see somebody sprinting to the rim looking for free throws and the defender measuring his feet for a charge, play on.

Its like a parent shutting their crying brat up with candy every time they start screaming then standing there baffled as to why the kid keeps crying

Exactly. You don't need to create some elaborate system to stop flopping. Just stop calling it. If you stop rewarding the flop with free throws, players will stop flopping.

[touchedbyPek]

I think suicide gets a bad rap.

[cpfsf]

Something needs to be done. We know flopping is effective and it lacks any deterrent, so you can probably expect the problem to get worse before it gets better.

Amen. Let's do something.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3416579

The funny thing is the NBA announced they would fine players back in 2008. Not sure why they brought it up if they weren't going to stick to their guns on this one, but it is what it is.

they don't even need to go that far, just stop blowing the whistle. People are sick of cheap free throws and cheap flops, so take care of both and when you see somebody sprinting to the rim looking for free throws and the defender measuring his feet for a charge, play on.

Its like a parent shutting their crying brat up with candy every time they start screaming then standing there baffled as to why the kid keeps crying

Exactly. You don't need to create some elaborate system to stop flopping. Just stop calling it. If you stop rewarding the flop with free throws, players will stop flopping.

Ideally yes, but it's not as easy as saying referees should referee better. I'm aware of the fact that these insurance policies won't eliminate this problem, but it doesn't hurt to have another insurance policy for these repeat floppers.

[cpfsf]

Petitions never lead to anything other than wasted time.

People have saved Uganda by signing petitions condemning Kony. Don't you dare take that away from them.

[LordBaldric]

they don't even need to go that far, just stop blowing the whistle. People are sick of cheap free throws and cheap flops, so take care of both and when you see somebody sprinting to the rim looking for free throws and the defender measuring his feet for a charge, play on.

Its like a parent shutting their crying brat up with candy every time they start screaming then standing there baffled as to why the kid keeps crying

This isn't the NFL. You can't just let the ball handler run people over on the way to the hoop.

Taking a charge is not = to a flop.

[Devilzsidewalk]

People get uncontrollably run over on what, maybe 5% of the charges? The rest are premeditated attempts to get an offensive foul call because at some point losers that can't play defense realized they don't have to contest shots like a normal person if they just turn themselves into a pylon. Those are the guys that are turning it into the NFL. They're looking to create contact instead of going for the ball.

DeMarcus Cousins has taken a league-leading 23 charges this season.

Cousins was asked how long taking charges has been a part of his game. "Since I figured out I couldn't block shots," he answered half-jokingly.

half jokingly because its true. Can't play defense? hey no problem, just fall down a lot. Problem solved.

[LordBaldric]

People get uncontrollably run over on what, maybe 5% of the charges? The rest are premeditated attempts to get an offensive foul call because at some point losers that can't play defense realized they don't have to contest shots like a normal person if they just turn themselves into a pylon. Those are the guys that are turning it into the NFL. They're looking to create contact instead of going for the ball.

DeMarcus Cousins has taken a league-leading 23 charges this season.

Cousins was asked how long taking charges has been a part of his game. "Since I figured out I couldn't block shots," he answered half-jokingly.

half jokingly because its true. Can't play defense? hey no problem, just fall down a lot. Problem solved.

Sorry, but this is pretty lame. I don't know how you're supposed to play defense if you don't even have a right to occupy the space you are in. I guess the days when Shaq just bulldozed down people and dunked it were the glory days of B-Ball in your mind. Maybe you should try watching another sport...

[Worm Guts]

I think this is an interesting discussion. It's hard to imagine organized basketball without charges called, but should playing good defense include a play that involves intentionally falling down? And should good defense include getting bailed out by the official?

It's one thing when someone like Shaq uses contact to gain an advantage on defender, that should be an offensive foul. But that's not the cause of most charges. Most charges are from a defender stepping in the path of an offensive players already established momentum.

[C.lupus]

People get uncontrollably run over on what, maybe 5% of the charges? The rest are premeditated attempts to get an offensive foul call because at some point losers that can't play defense realized they don't have to contest shots like a normal person if they just turn themselves into a pylon. Those are the guys that are turning it into the NFL. They're looking to create contact instead of going for the ball.

DeMarcus Cousins has taken a league-leading 23 charges this season.

Cousins was asked how long taking charges has been a part of his game. "Since I figured out I couldn't block shots," he answered half-jokingly.

half jokingly because its true. Can't play defense? hey no problem, just fall down a lot. Problem solved.

Sorry, but this is pretty lame. I don't know how you're supposed to play defense if you don't even have a right to occupy the space you are in. I guess the days when Shaq just bulldozed down people and dunked it were the glory days of B-Ball in your mind. Maybe you should try watching another sport...

There's a difference between occupying a space for the purpose of contesting a shot or stripping the ball and stepping in front of someone with your hands folded in front of you with the sole purpose of getting knocked on your butt.

[Devilzsidewalk]

thats what i'm saying; it's not about eliminating charges or refusing to call hacks, it's about eliminating the concept of being able to seek out positioning for the sole purpose of free throws and offensive fouls. The fundamentals of basketball are getting skewed; if an offensive player wants to go body first to shield the ball, fine, but body contact shouldn't be rewarded w/ free throws. Conversely, if a defender wants to slide over to cut off a path and force a re-direction, that shouldn't always garner a foul.

All I ask that some common sense and skepticism be used in officiating. If one guy goes falling to the floor and the other guy doesn't even stumble, probably a flop. If Rubio gets caught on a switch defending Dwight Howard in the post, too bad if you get bulled to the floor, you're small and thats what happens, but today thats a foul call.

I just don't see why it's even needed in most cased; when have you ever seen somebody get bowled over in a pickup game? Funny how all this devastating contact only happens when refs are around.

[Iommi]

thats what i'm saying; it's not about eliminating charges or refusing to call hacks, it's about eliminating the concept of being able to seek out positioning for the sole purpose of free throws and offensive fouls. The fundamentals of basketball are getting skewed; if an offensive player wants to go body first to shield the ball, fine, but body contact shouldn't be rewarded w/ free throws. Conversely, if a defender wants to slide over to cut off a path and force a re-direction, that shouldn't always garner a foul.

All I ask that some common sense and skepticism be used in officiating. If one guy goes falling to the floor and the other guy doesn't even stumble, probably a flop. If Rubio gets caught on a switch defending Dwight Howard in the post, too bad if you get bulled to the floor, you're small and thats what happens, but today thats a foul call.

I just don't see why it's even needed in most cased; when have you ever seen somebody get bowled over in a pickup game? Funny how all this devastating contact only happens when refs are around.

I play a lot of pickup ball, and I'm always having to talk to the dude guarding me to get him to follow the rules. im not trying to throw off the rhythm of the game because of off ball contact, but i cant get through a game without having to tell people to be cool. "stop riding me with your forearms, bro. get your forearm out of my ribs. shuffle your feet." its annoying.

While I do think the nba's officiating has gotten too skewed in the one direction, taking charges is part of the game. thinking about the fact that a dude is coming with a head of steam and you can get to position with squared shoulders before he leaps is good defense and part of sound strategy. whether or not you choose to fall down is completely immaterial to whether or not a charge occurred, and while i'd prefer guys not choosing to fall down I don't actually care because they aren't doing anything wrong. why should the wherewithal required to draw a call you didn't deserve be an objective negative? My playstyle/strength is energy, hustle, tough defense and lotsa rebounding, and I love the physical play of the post, but when the dude I'm guarding is backing me down, and he makes a sudden move backwards with his upper body, i'm going to snap back my neck in rhythm with his movement, to make it look like he caught me in the chin with an elbow. official manipulation is absolutely part of the game, and i absolutely think the overcompetitive, nondiplomatic moron who snaps at the official deserves to get screwed on calls, because hes not thinking enough to properly take advantage of his surroundings. basketball is a thinking game and its super rewarding to throw ur man off his confidence because hes afraid of the whistle.

there's a way to move around a basketball court where people's flops dont get you fouls called, and there's a way to play defense with cognition to the officials without it being disrespectful to the sport or whatever. devilzsidewalk, you posted that we should eliminate the concept of being able to seek out positioning for the sole purpose of free throws and offensive fouls, but whats the point of having position if it gains you nothing? why should an offensive player be able to barrel down the paint without fear of someone noticing he won't notice if they slide in front of him until it's too late? Where is his responsibility to moderate his positioning on the court? flopping or no, anyone who plays with their head up will tell you charges are not difficult to avoid.

EDIT: by the way, imagine the scenario if charges are still an accepted call, but flopping is not. player a bowls into player b and the officials gather at the scorer's table like, "so b definitely had position... but i swear guys, he was TRYING to draw a charge. i cant in good conscience give him this call." then the next official is like, 'no, he had that competitive fire in his eyes! he was goin for the strip all along!' and there can't possibly be an objective conclusion.