Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Perry Jones

RapsFanInVA · Post #161 » by **RapsFanInVA** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:38 am

Maybe it was just a terrible coincidence, but the handful of Baylor games I watched, he didn't live up to the hype at all.

Greg Stink · Post #162 » by **Greg Stink** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:45 am

This thread is backward sprinting.

BeasleyTheBeast · Post #163 » by **BeasleyTheBeast** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:57 am

isn't PJ3 the same guy that diss Toronto?

shortmikeshortt · Post #164 » by **shortmikeshortt** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:41 am

the Monta Ellis trade was made for Klay Thompson. They love him in Golden State. I say GSW take a long hard look at Perry or Terrence Jones, because Lillard (Curry), and Lamb (Thompson), don't make sense for them. Niether does Zeller or Marshall who could be next in line.

Leaving us with some solid choices. I think if we keep our pick its safe to say we'll end up with one of Lamb or Lillard, and no one can really complain with that can they?

mathgeek · Post #165 » by **mathgeek** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:04 am

It is way too early to discuss who's going to pick who wait until the draft lottery is officially determined before we start speculating about what players we might be left with to draft. Also, there's going to be certain types of players who have underachieved during the season but will shoot up after the draft workouts, Perry Jones being a physical specimen will most likely shine on draft workouts and could potentially jump up the draft board.

I watched him a lot from high school till now as he certainly is a very intriguing player and was one of my favorite players. As a player on the court it seems like he is shy of playing to his potential, even in high school he wasn't dominating and i think averaged around 22 pts which is horrible for a player his caliber but his physical tools are undeniable. Also, he is not a SF and will not be an SF, Perry Jones is a PF much like Chris Bosh except with more range to his game. One thing that people underrate is his passing and his IQ on the court, he certainly is not a ball stopper like Chris Bosh was and will definitely make the smart pass to an open player. He doesn't lack a motor, but lacks aggression it seems like he doesn't care at times and seems to drift during the game much like Rudy Gay in college. His dribble is too high and he is going to struggle against other quicker SFs in the league, he doesn't really have a cross over move or anything that will enable him to shake off his defender and get to the basket or pull up for a jumper like Durant.

Anyways didn't want to make this post too long but the bottom line is we can argue all day about what his positives and negatives are but the simple fact that this guy is not a SF means that we should not be drafting him even if he is most likely the best player available at the time.

fredericklove · Post #166 » by **fredericklove** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:51 am

shortmikeshortt wrote:the Monta Ellis trade was made for Klay Thompson. They love him in Golden State. I say GSW take a long hard look at Perry or Terrence Jones, because Lillard (Curry), and Lamb (Thompson), don't make sense for them. Niether does Zeller or Marshall who could be next in line.

Leaving us with some solid choices. I think if we keep our pick its safe to say we'll end up with one of Lamb or Lillard, and no one can really complain with that can they?

I hope that's the case about Klay and this board will go orgasm if Lamb drops to us :rofl:

Man of Steel · Post #167 » by **Man of Steel** » Tue May 1, 2012 1:44 am

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Fin ... Jones-3910

In a strong environment with great coaching and plenty of patience, Jones could become a very useful NBA player, and surely there will be no shortage of teams willing to invest in his talent. The question is, how high in the draft will he ultimately be selected?

MEDIC · Post #168 » by **MEDIC** » Tue May 1, 2012 2:02 am

Something about this kid reminds me of Keon Clark, but with some shooting & ball handling ability.

That said, I wouldn't be totally against drafting him. He could become one of the better players in the draft down the road. When you're drafting 8th, some risk may be necessary.

tmac101 · Post #169 » by **tmac101** » Tue May 1, 2012 2:33 am

luisnani wrote:
fredericklove wrote:
So having lamb will keep this team on treadmill? And having PJ3 will not? Yeah in practice, but what about in an actual game? I've seen none of it when he's on the floor.

I think you misunderstood me. Lamb is my favorite prospect in this draft outside of the Brow. People have said we shouldn't take Lamb because he wouldn't be given playing time alongside DeMar, and THAT is the kind of thinking that would keep this team on the treadmill (trying to draft on a needs basis when we don't have enough talent).

I believe selecting Lamb does put the team on a treadmill because if you are picking the BPA it would be Jones no question just because Lamb is a good scorer on the college level should not dismiss a prospect and potential that jones actually has. When it's all said and done jones could go down as one of the top 3 prospect of this draft years from now, where a Lamb would just be considered a safe pick for the time being

Post #170 » by **Undefeated** » Tue May 1, 2012 2:45 am

Since when did Lamb not have a high upside?

Man of Steel · Post #171 » by **Man of Steel** » Tue May 1, 2012 2:55 am

Undefeated wrote:Since when did Lamb not have a high upside?

This. Lamb has huge upside.

PJ3 has huge upside also. In order for Lamb to pan out as a pick, he will need to get stronger. No one questions that Lamb is a shooting guard, or that he is a solid scorer with the dribbles, jumpshot, and athleticism to excel on the offense, as well as the length to excel on the defense, and he has shown he can do all of these things in the NCAA. People question PJ3's lateral quickness when they consider him as a SF, or his strength when they consider him a PF. They question his motor, and rightly so.

I can understand why people think Jones III has higher upside given that he is a physical specimen, but Lamb's wingspan is pretty crazy as well.

Post #172 » by **Double Helix** » Thu May 3, 2012 4:49 pm

Was talking with some others about PJII and why some people aren't high on him and decided to do a little comparison between him and other big SFs or PFs with SF skills who had a reputation for focus and lack of effort issues. Here are some of the names discussed and the stats they put up in their final year of college before entering the nba:

Quick comparison of big SFs or PFs with SF skills that have had a reputation of having questionable motors:

Marvin Williams first year at UNC (PER 40 averages):
20ppg/11.8rpg/2spg/0.8bpg - PER: 24.1
Ranked #11 nationally in HS basketball by Rivals.

Charlie Viallanueva second year at UCONN (Per 40 averages):
21.1ppg/12.9rpg/2apg/1spg/2bpg - PER: 25.9
Ranked #5 nationally in HS basketball by Rivals.

Anthony Randolph's first year at LSU (per 40 averages):
19.0ppg/10.2rpg/1.5apg/1.5spg/2.8bpg - PER: 21.6
Ranked #11 nationally in HS basketball by Rivals.

Earl Clark's 3rd year Louisville (per 40 averages):
14.2ppg/7.7rpg/3.2apg/1.0spg/1.4bpg - PER 20.4 (he actually had a better PER as a sophomore, 21.2 -- identical to PJ3)
Ranked #22 nationally in HS basketball by Rivals.

Perry Jones' 2nd year at Baylor (per 40 averages):
17.6ppg/10rpg/1.7apg/1.1spg/0.8bpg - PER: 21.2
Ranked #9 nationally in HS basketball by Rivals.

Can anybody think of any others players worth adding to the list? I tried to find Tim Thomas' college stats easily enough but couldn't. Nonetheless, it's not hard to see why some evaluators haven't fully bought in with PJIII as a prospect. They've seen this kind of body/athleticism/coordation combo before. They've seen it sometimes with even stronger statistical resumes than what he did at Baylor. And many of them were burned by the exact same thing that has come to define PJIII as his biggest weakness.

ty123 · Post #173 » by **ty123** » Thu May 3, 2012 4:51 pm

I think Perry Jones will have a Bosh type career if things pan out.

lucky777s · Post #174 » by **lucky777s** » Thu May 3, 2012 5:03 pm

I think you can pick up Anthony Randolph much cheaper than an 8 pick in a good draft.

Kid is in his 4th year but just turning 23. May be starting to get it. Shooting percentages rising. Had some good games this year when given extended minutes. NBA body now.

Earl Clark has likewise finally shown me something after I wrote him off his rookie year.

I think PJ3 will take a while to find his nba game. These other guys may not have huge upside but are still young, have nba experience, and you don't have to use the 8 pick on them.

I don't think you can find guys similar to Lamb just sitting around the nba getting limited to no minutes.

brownbobcat · Post #175 » by **brownbobcat** » Thu May 3, 2012 5:06 pm

Double Helix wrote:Quick comparison of big SFs or PFs with SF skills that have had a reputation of having questionable motors:

I would add Rudy Gay and Lamar Odom to that list, although I think their skill level was way higher than PJ3 coming out of college.

Per 40
Odom (20.2ppg/10.8rpg/4.4apg)
Gay (19.7ppg/8.3rpg/2.7apg)

I_Like_Dirt · Post #176 » by **I_Like_Dirt** » Thu May 3, 2012 5:14 pm

Double Helix wrote:Earl Clark's 3rd year Louisville (per 40 averages):
14.2ppg/7.7rpg/3.2apg/1.0spg/1.4bpg - PER 20.4 (he actually had a better PER as a sophomore, 21.2 -- identical to PJ3)
Ranked #22 nationally in HS basketball by Rivals.

Perry Jones' 2nd year at Baylor (per 40 averages):
17.6ppg/10rpg/1.7apg/1.1spg/0.8bpg - PER: 21.2
Ranked #9 nationally in HS basketball by Rivals.

Those are actually Clark's averages. If you go per 40, Clark averaged 16.5/10.1/3.8/1.2/1.6 in his final year in Louisville. I still think Lamar Odom is probably the best comparison here, but I don't think PJ3 has the kind of upside people are characterizing him as having. He can't really dribble very well for an SF. He can't really shoot well for an SF. He can't really defend well at either position. He isn't an inside force of a PF. His rebounding is alright but not great. He doesn't block or intimidate a lot of shots. I still think he winds up somewhere between Charlie V and Lamar Odom, although probably closer to Odom. There will be players I'd rather have even at the 8th spot.

God Squad · Post #177 » by **God Squad** » Thu May 3, 2012 6:04 pm

MEDIC wrote:Something about this kid reminds me of Keon Clark, but with some shooting & ball handling ability.

That said, I wouldn't be totally against drafting him. He could become one of the better players in the draft down the road. When you're drafting 8th, some risk may be necessary.

This. We have nothing to lose.

Post #178 » by **Double Helix** » Thu May 3, 2012 6:48 pm

Posted this mistakenly in the draft thread...

Was thinking about why so many people think that a superior physical talent like PJIII is more likely to succeed than a player with simply good physical attributes and superior cognitive abilities (like Sullinger) when it hit me. The mind controls all and the body is merely a vessel, not unlike a video game where we control the physical attributes of video game characters. Consider this analogy on the subject of PJII vs Jared Sullinger:

Who's more likely to win in a game of NBA Live 2012? A 20 year-old NBA Live expert who's been ranked higher by almost any tangible measure while playing with with the Charlotte Bobcats? Or, another 20 year old Live player that perhaps prefers Madden, and is ranked lower by almost any tangible measure playing with the Miami Heat? My money's on the smarter, savvier player that knows how to dominate his peers while using the Bobcats and that... in effect... is Jered Sullinger vs Perry Jones.

Perry Jones the player, and the Heat as a team in a video game, both have amazing attributes that if controlled by a strategic, skilled, focused mind would be tough to beat but in Jones' case that doesn't appear to be so. And the craziest part about it is that Sullinger's superior mind isn't even controlling the equivalent of the Bobcats. He's 6'10 and 270lbs. He's not the most athletic guy in the world but those attributes are nowhere near league worst for his position. He's not even the equivalent of the Bobcats physically.

The mind controls all. Great players have competitive, strategic minds that see the game differently in addition to great physical attributes. Sullinger might have the cognitive abilities that the great PFs have and simply good (not great) physical attributes. I wouldn't classify his frame/athleticism combo as poor. If he was weaker or shorter, sure, but he's not. He's strong and seems to have enough length to fit in with most PFs. I think you'll find quite a few PFs in the NBA with PERs above 17.0 that have that combination of attributes (Competitive, focused, ready to work minds and less than stellar physical attributes). How many PFs with PERs above 17.0 can you think of that have unfocused, unmotivated, non-competitive minds that get by soley on their size and athleticism? Now, think about how many of those types you've seen rotting away on benches over the years.

Post #179 » by **Mr Swagtastic** » Thu May 3, 2012 7:00 pm

I am not a fan of Perry Jones at all he has the biggest bust potential out of the lotto picks IMHO. He's a classic tweener who is best used as a 4 and with Bargs/Ed Davis/Amir all on the books at the 4 I just don't want to use the pick on PJ3. I can't see him as a good NBA defender I would rather trade the pick or draft somebody else.

I_Like_Dirt · Post #180 » by **I_Like_Dirt** » Thu May 3, 2012 7:05 pm

I don't think Perry Jones has the most upside in the lottery. I think he's one of the safest picks in the lottery in the sense that I'm fairly confident that his downside is Charlie V. There are players out there who, if they don't translate quite right, could wind up as 15th men. Jones isn't in that category. I just don't think his upside is as incredible as some seem to believe. I can't recall a single superstar ever who floated around the way PJ3 does. I can think of several decent players, including many currently in the league, like Rudy Gay, Lamar Odom, etc. Superstars always have the drive to just plain outperform everybody else no matter what. PJ3 just simply doesn't have that drive and therefore will never be a superstar. He'll still be a solid NBA pro, though.

If still on the Board by our pick what are the chanches we draft him?