2012 NBA Draft - Part III

[cleek+wall]

Im surprised everyone is omitting barnes? He is the most polised player in this yrs draft and probably has more upside than anyone.

[Nivek]

Im surprised everyone is omitting barnes? He is the most polised player in this yrs draft and probably has more upside than anyone.

Not a fan of the guy's game. For a guy with a "polished" game and his ballyhooed athletic tools, he wasn't very productive. Scoring is supposed to be his key contribution, but he's not efficient. I think there are better prospects in this draft. With the information I have now, I wouldn't pick him before late 1st round.

[montestewart]

WizD, for someone with such an active imagination, I'm afraid you have very little.....imagination.

This whole "eerily similar" thing is a farce. Player comps are something that we, the media, the generally uninitiated all posit to make ourselves feel better about what we cannot quite understand or express.

Players should be evaluated based on what they have produced and are thus likely to produce, not what someone with a similar gait or skin tone or wingspan has done. I think we would all be better talent evaluators if we did away with player comps altogether. It's an intellectual crutch IMHO.

It reminds me of the scene in Moneyball where all the scouts are saying "he's a good looking ballplayer" while ignoring all the numbers that the GM has saying he isn't.

[dobrojim]

Im surprised everyone is omitting barnes? He is the most polised player in this yrs draft and probably has more upside than anyone.

I don't think that is an opinion that is widely shared here or by
NBA teams at this point in time. It might have been true last
year, but it's not anymore. His stats and ability to carry his
loaded, albeit snake-bit team pulled the curtain away from
the young man behind it. He may not be a bad player, but
I seriously doubt he has near the upside that many other players
in this draft have.

[DCZards]

I find the Camby bashing interesting. Like others, I fully expect Davis to turn out to be far better than Marcus, but Camby has had a better career than some on this board appear to be giving him credit for. While his highest pts. per game average was a little over 14 in his rookie season with Toronto, Camby has averaged 10 pts, 10 rebs and more than 2.5 blocks for his career. He's had some 10 seasons where he's averaged 10-12 rebounds for game (with a high of 13 boards in 2007) and five seasons of more than 3 blocks a game.

Camby deserves some props, imo. Those rebound and block numbers are not those of your average, run-of-the-mill NBA player. If Davis can at least match Camby's rebound and block numbers (something I think he will do with ease) and score, say, 18-20 pts per game, he'll have a very good NBA career and almost certainly warrant being this year's #1 pick.

[Upper Decker]

I've always been suspect of Camby's defense. I think he sold out for the rebounds way too often during his career. I also find it interesting his teams have never really been good defensively. The Nugs defense greatly improved when he was basically given to the Clippers...for nothing. Denver's defense was meddling for years, the season they dump him they go to the conference finals.

[Higga]

Im surprised everyone is omitting barnes? He is the most polised player in this yrs draft and probably has more upside than anyone.

I don't think that is an opinion that is widely shared here or by
NBA teams at this point in time. It might have been true last
year, but it's not anymore. His stats and ability to carry his
loaded, albeit snake-bit team pulled the curtain away from
the young man behind it. He may not be a bad player, but
I seriously doubt he has near the upside that many other players
in this draft have.

My problem with Barnes is that for all that talent, he didn't dominate. I use the same philosophy for the NFL draft as I do for the NBA draft. If you can't max out your talent in college, how can you expect to just turn it on in the pros when the competition is a lot tougher and a lot of the motivation(getting to the NBA, the $$$, the lifestyle, etc.)is now gone?

He seems like he'd be another in a long line of Wizard players to have talent, but no heart or brains. And even then, the talent he has isn't exactly all world.

[nate33]

Davis' skillset and mobility remind more of KG than of Camby.

[REDardWIZskin]

Do you all actually believe we have a chance at getting the number one pick? I really think it's rigged.

[cleek+wall]

No its not rigged as it used to be ...I dunno why we think that we ve got no chance of winning the nba lotto if we aready had won 2 #1s ( drafted wall and kwami lol)

Barnes was up and down in his college days , i admit. But i still think he will turn out to be a better pro..if we get the 4th or 5th pick we should get him. We dont need robinson or drummond.. as we already have some solid pfs.

[The Consiglieri]

Davis:

Ceiling: Absolute monster, HOF ability, a defensive machine and a good offensive option.

MKG:

Ceiling: Absolute complete player, solid scorer, leader, great on defensive end, good on offensive end.

Beal:

Ceiling: Elite shooter, start at him 2 and forget for a decade, all star games made plural, very good player, possibly great, but never elite.

Robinson:

Ceiling: 18 and 9 production, basically plug in Juwon Howard #'s in his prime. I looked at Robinson's production, game to game on a team lacking in talent beyond him, and he was remarkably consistent. I think he's an 18 and 9 to 17-8 game to game guy at the next level, obviously doesn't play like Howard, but that 1994-1997 consistency of production that Howard maintained seems very, very similar to what Robinson would due in terms of ceiling and to a degree, my realistic expectation of the guy (I see a very high floor, but not a terribly high ceiling, he strikes me as the very essence of a "good" player, and no better or worse).

Drummond:

Ceiling: Absolute monster on defense, and solid on offense, a monster weapon given enough time. Drummond's ceiling is the highest in the draft, the problem is that his floor is definitely the lowest.

Oh, and no way in hell would I deal 1 for 5 and 10, and nobody else would either.

I would trade 3 or 4 for 5 and 10 though.

[Dat2U]

Considering we're locked into a top 5 pick, there's really only 5 players I'm considering at this point

Harrison Barnes is not one of them. When people say Barnes is so talented or has so much upside I wonder what exactly are people looking at? When I see Barnes I see:

1. Limited ballhandling skills - The inability to create space off the dribble or get past even marginal college defenders
2. Stiff hips - Not much wiggle in his game. Not very shifty or slick.
3. No explosiveness - Not a great athlete. An okay athlete but NBA athleticism is passable at best.
4. Volume shooter with so-so efficiency - Doesn't get to the line enough because he can't get to the rim. And he's not a pure shooter in the Ray Allen or Glen Rice mode.
5. He's too cool for school - Doesn't appear to love the game. No fire or intensity. Has backed down at times and gone into a shell.

I don't know why he's still considered a lottery pick in some circles. He's a mid-to-late 1st rounder in my book.

[montestewart]

I would trade 3 or 4 for 5 and 10 though.

Would you trade the #2 if you felt like Beal or MKG would still be at the #5?

2. Stiff hips - Not much wiggle in his game. Not very shifty or slick.

For some reason, that sounds like it's from a WizarDynasty post. Easier to read though.

[Rafael122]

Considering we're locked into a top 5 pick, there's really only 5 players I'm considering at this point

Harrison Barnes is not one of them. When people say Barnes is so talented or has so much upside I wonder what exactly are people looking at? When I see Barnes I see:

1. Limited ballhandling skills - The inability to create space off the dribble or get past even marginal college defenders
2. Stiff hips - Not much wiggle in his game. Not very shifty or slick.
3. No explosiveness - Not a great athlete. An okay athlete but NBA athleticism is passable at best.
4. Volume shooter with so-so efficiency - Doesn't get to the line enough because he can't get to the rim. And he's not a pure shooter in the Ray Allen or Glen Rice mode.
5. He's too cool for school - Doesn't appear to love the game. No fire or intensity. Has backed down at times and gone into a shell.

I don't know why he's still considered a lottery pick in some circles. He's a mid-to-late 1st rounder in my book.

Wait, so Dat who would you take if the Wizards sat at 5? I'd personally trade down with a team like Houston who I believe have 3 first round picks.

[cleek+wall]

Considering we're locked into a top 5 pick, there's really only 5 players I'm considering at this point

Harrison Barnes is not one of them. When people say Barnes is so talented or has so much upside I wonder what exactly are people looking at? When I see Barnes I see:

1. Limited ballhandling skills - The inability to create space off the dribble or get past even marginal college defenders
2. Stiff hips - Not much wiggle in his game. Not very shifty or slick.
3. No explosiveness - Not a great athlete. An okay athlete but NBA athleticism is passable at best.
4. Volume shooter with so-so efficiency - Doesn't get to the line enough because he can't get to the rim. And he's not a pure shooter in the Ray Allen or Glen Rice mode.
5. He's too cool for school - Doesn't appear to love the game. No fire or intensity. Has backed down at times and gone into a shell.

I don't know why he's still considered a lottery pick in some circles. He's a mid-to-late 1st rounder in my book.

Barnes loves one-dribble pull-ups, preferably going to his left. He loves step-back jumpers, as well. If you leave Barnes wide-open from three-point land, he is knocking it down every time....


And Barnes is an excellent mid-range players, a lost art in today’s game. Barnes will probably never be a 37% three-point shooter for his career but he will be a better player than granger.

[Dat2U]

Not a huge fan of trading down at all. We need quality not quantity. And the absolute last thing we need is 3 marginal 1st round picks. But if we land #4 or #5 and Beal & MKG are gone then I'd consider trading OUT the draft altogether if we could a youngish all-star quality talent.

[Rafael122]

Not a huge fan of trading down at all. We need quality not quantity. And the absolute last thing we need is 3 marginal 1st round picks. But if we land #4 or #5 and Beal & MKG are gone then I'd consider trading OUT the draft altogether if we could a youngish all-star quality talent.

I just wouldn't want Drummond and if I had to pick Barnes, I'd rather pick him at 13 or 14 than at 5. Houston has two first round picks, my mistake, 16th overall and most likely 14th overall.

[Dat2U]

Not a huge fan of trading down at all. We need quality not quantity. And the absolute last thing we need is 3 marginal 1st round picks. But if we land #4 or #5 and Beal & MKG are gone then I'd consider trading OUT the draft altogether if we could a youngish all-star quality talent.

I just wouldn't want Drummond and if I had to pick Barnes, I'd rather pick him at 13 or 14 than at 5. Houston has two first round picks, my mistake, 16th overall and most likely 14th overall.

Well honestly I'd rather not draft Barnes at all.

As far as Drummond, I honestly don't know. I can't dismiss him because of his defensive ability. He is a lot like Kwame in that the upside is similar but without the production to match. What Drummond has over Kwame is huge mitts for hands and no MJ/Collins to make his life miserable. Plus Drummond wouldn't have the stigma of being a #1 pick.

[pancakes3]

i think the most optimistic anyone can be for harrison is that he'll eventually earn rudy gay status but rudy was already a much, much better player at the same age. i'd be even more inclined to pour gas onto our PF logjam problem and draft sullinger than take harrison at #5

[MF23]

As far as Drummond, I honestly don't know. I can't dismiss him because of his defensive ability. He is a lot like Kwame in that the upside is similar but without the production to match. What Drummond has over Kwame is huge mitts for hands and no MJ/Collins to make his life miserable. Plus Drummond wouldn't have the stigma of being a #1 pick.

Boo, Collins an MJ were the best thing for Kwame. He needed a foot up his a**. Brown had a chitty attitude and by year 2 he was responding to the no nonsense coaching by showing some signs of a future. If anything Abe Pollins decision ruined Browns career because the discipline was replaced by EG's players do what you want approach. That was the worst thing that could happen to someone like Kwame's dumba**. I don't want Drummond under EG. I do not trust EG and the system he'll put in place for a project like Drummond.