Adelman wants a "very aggressive" off season

black bart · Post #221 » by **black bart** » Tue May 1, 2012 6:56 am

Krapinsky wrote:
nhh90 wrote:Centers that score 18 points and 9 rebounds get max.

Chris Kaman, Al Jefferson come to mind.

They don't shoot 60% ts

black bart · Post #222 » by **black bart** » Tue May 1, 2012 7:15 am

Paying for defense is stupid. Pekovic is 7'1 280 pounds at least. He will easily be an anchor on defense if he attempts it. You pay players that give you 4 OREB. With Pekovic and Love you get 8 OREB between them. Literally the main reason why chicago bulls are so good is because of rebounding. With rubio kevin love and pekovic you are probably getting around 6 more possessions more than the other team because you have the two of the best OREB pf and center combo and rubio decreases turnovers for the wolves. Wolves literally just need a decent wing to be a 50 win team at this point.

Grits n Gravy · Post #223 » by **Grits n Gravy** » Tue May 1, 2012 7:19 am

nhh90 wrote:Paying for defense is stupid. Pekovic is 7'1 280 pounds at least. He will easily be an anchor on defense if he attempts it. You pay players that give you 4 OREB. With Pekovic and Love you get 8 OREB between them. Literally the main reason why chicago bulls are so good is because of rebounding. With rubio kevin love and pekovic you are probably getting around 6 more possessions more than the other team because you have the two of the best OREB pf and center combo and rubio decreases turnovers for the wolves. Wolves literally just need a decent wing to be a 50 win team at this point.

pek is 6'11 and closer to 300 pounds imo. if he were 7'1 he would be the second coming of shaq :lol:

black bart · Post #224 » by **black bart** » Tue May 1, 2012 7:21 am

Grits n Gravy wrote:
nhh90 wrote:Paying for defense is stupid. Pekovic is 7'1 280 pounds at least. He will easily be an anchor on defense if he attempts it. You pay players that give you 4 OREB. With Pekovic and Love you get 8 OREB between them. Literally the main reason why chicago bulls are so good is because of rebounding. With rubio kevin love and pekovic you are probably getting around 6 more possessions more than the other team because you have the two of the best OREB pf and center combo and rubio decreases turnovers for the wolves. Wolves literally just need a decent wing to be a 50 win team at this point.

pek is 6'11 and closer to 300 pounds imo. if he were 7'1 he would be the second coming of shaq

6'11 love style or 6'11 w/o shoes?

Post #225 » by **Klomp** » Tue May 1, 2012 7:23 am

nhh90 wrote:Paying for defense is stupid. Pekovic is 7'1 280 pounds at least. He will easily be an anchor on defense if he attempts it. You pay players that give you 4 OREB. With Pekovic and Love you get 8 OREB between them. Literally the main reason why chicago bulls are so good is because of rebounding. With rubio kevin love and pekovic you are probably getting around 6 more possessions more than the other team because you have the two of the best OREB pf and center combo and rubio decreases turnovers for the wolves. Wolves literally just need a decent wing to be a 50 win team at this point.

1. Pekovic is closer to 6'10 than he is 7'1.
2. The Bulls are good because of their defense.
3. With Love/Pekovic inside, you are also increasing the points the opponent scores inside.

Post #226 » by **Klomp** » Tue May 1, 2012 7:25 am

nhh90 wrote:6'11 love style or 6'11 w/o shoes?

Pekovic is listed at 6'11 in shoes.

black bart · Post #227 » by **black bart** » Tue May 1, 2012 7:41 am

Klomp wrote:
nhh90 wrote:Paying for defense is stupid. Pekovic is 7'1 280 pounds at least. He will easily be an anchor on defense if he attempts it. You pay players that give you 4 OREB. With Pekovic and Love you get 8 OREB between them. Literally the main reason why chicago bulls are so good is because of rebounding. With rubio kevin love and pekovic you are probably getting around 6 more possessions more than the other team because you have the two of the best OREB pf and center combo and rubio decreases turnovers for the wolves. Wolves literally just need a decent wing to be a 50 win team at this point.

1. Pekovic is closer to 6'10 than he is 7'1.
2. The Bulls are good because of their defense.
3. With Love/Pekovic inside, you are also increasing the points the opponent scores inside.

the bulls are number 1 in OREB too and 1 in Total REB too.

Post #228 » by **Klomp** » Tue May 1, 2012 7:47 am

nhh90 wrote:the bulls are number 1 in OREB too and 1 in Total REB too.

Right, but you cannot discount their defense. The Bulls frontcourt players bring good rebounding AND good defense. At this point, Pekovic just brings average defense with his good rebounding. Which would you rather have?

EddyCool · Post #229 » by **EddyCool** » Tue May 1, 2012 12:38 pm

Klomp wrote:
nhh90 wrote:the bulls are number 1 in OREB too and 1 in Total REB too.

Right, but you cannot discount their defense. The Bulls frontcourt players bring good rebounding AND good defense. At this point, Pekovic just brings average defense with his good rebounding. Which would you rather have?

Last season (2010-2011) the Wolves were #1 in offensive rebounds and total rebounds.

Like anything, lack of a consistent, shot-altering interior defender alters the game across the board, not just in opponents points in the paint and blocked shots. It's a problem for our already over-matched perimeter defense, as they have to overplay dribble-drive because they can't count on the long, mobile (hopefully intelligent) defender waiting to help.

Klomp, you're not suggesting we need to replace Pek, right? Just stressing that's it's not stupid to pay to improve defense (especially vs. rebounding). Right? The Wolves are an interesting team to be making this point about - we had a big improvement this season, but our rebounding numbers dropped, while we moved up to the middle of the pack defensively (all before the injury).

If you can avoid it, it's best if you can improve your defense without giving DeAndre Jordan $10+ MM per year, but it's still very important and costly. If we can add Asik or Mahinmi to take the Darko/Randolph spot for less than we were paying the pair, that could be solid. I'm leaving a big window there - I think starting at $7 MM is high for a non-starter, but you're probably not going to win their services at $4 MM.

Post #230 » by **Worm Guts** » Tue May 1, 2012 2:43 pm

theGreatRC wrote:Anyone think we should sell high on Pek?

Where are we going to get the money to re-sign him if we have a "very aggressive" off-season?

He's a restricted free agent with Bird Rights. The only reason we couldn't resign him is if Taylor personally decided he didn't want to have a big team salary. That may happen, but I think it depends on how successful we are next year.

Esohny · Post #231 » by **Esohny** » Tue May 1, 2012 2:44 pm

nhh90 wrote:
Esohny wrote:I like Pek a lot, but Gasol is on a higher tier, so that dollar amount doesn't make sense.

The only reason why he is because they are a playoff team.

Yes. That's the reason. It has nothing to do with Gasol's superior defense and passing. Nothing at all.

Regardless, this isn't about how Pekovic isn't good. He clearly was playing like an above average center, and should be kept long term unless trading him would bring a major upgrade to the roster. He just shouldn't be paid as much as the top centers, because he isn't one of the top centers.

Post #232 » by **Worm Guts** » Tue May 1, 2012 2:52 pm

There's no reason to worry about what Pekovic will be paid until next year. How much he will get will depend on if he can sustain his high level of offensive play. I don't think he's shown enough to get 10 million per at this point, but that might change by next offseason.

breatnach · Post #233 » by **breatnach** » Tue May 1, 2012 2:58 pm

I would absolutely love to see AI play here, I hope we get it done! All we'd need is a spot-up shooter.

On a off-note, shooting the ball should be one of the things Ricky should be able to work on, even while his knee is still healing - right?

Devilzsidewalk · Post #234 » by **Devilzsidewalk** » Tue May 1, 2012 3:15 pm

Pek looks legit to me; he'll probably get his 11 or 12 mil if he stays healthy. His defense is pretty weak, but he'll still get paid. Nene, Noah, Okur, Camby, Kaman - all these guys were able to easily get 8 figure contracts. Teams are happy to throw money at any center with skills, even if they aren't top 5 or have huge holes in their games.

NewWolvesOrder · Post #235 » by **NewWolvesOrder** » Tue May 1, 2012 5:35 pm

Devilzsidewalk wrote:Pek looks legit to me; he'll probably get his 11 or 12 mil if he stays healthy. His defense is pretty weak, but he'll still get paid. Nene, Noah, Okur, Camby, Kaman - all these guys were able to easily get 8 figure contracts. Teams are happy to throw money at any center with skills, even if they aren't top 5 or have huge holes in their games.

I just can't see how you can call Pek a weak defender. I'm OK if his weakside defense is called weak as he's not good at altering shots at the rim but his man defense on low post scorers is impressive. I'v seen him defend Aldridge, Howard and Bynum better that Darko ever did.

NewWolvesOrder · Post #236 » by **NewWolvesOrder** » Tue May 1, 2012 5:37 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
theGreatRC wrote:Anyone think we should sell high on Pek?

Where are we going to get the money to re-sign him if we have a "very aggressive" off-season?

He's a restricted free agent with Bird Rights. The only reason we couldn't resign him is if Taylor personally decided he didn't want to have a big team salary. That may happen, but I think it depends on how successful we are next year.

If it happens he can tell kahn to start shopping Love for picks.

Post #237 » by **Worm Guts** » Tue May 1, 2012 5:40 pm

I don't understand what you mean.

Post #238 » by **Klomp** » Tue May 1, 2012 5:47 pm

EddyCool wrote:Klomp, you're not suggesting we need to replace Pek, right? Just stressing that's it's not stupid to pay to improve defense (especially vs. rebounding). Right?

Correct. I was responding to the poster who said its stupid to pay for defense.

Do we NEED to replace Pekovic? No. However, I wouldn't take issue if a deal came along that improved our roster.

NewWolvesOrder · Post #239 » by **NewWolvesOrder** » Tue May 1, 2012 5:49 pm

Worm Guts wrote:I don't understand what you mean.

If Taylor feels we are a bad team and opts to not resign good players like Pekovic which makes us even worse then Love will force his way out sooner or later. Love made it known that he's not wasting his career on a bad Minnesota team especially if Taylor shows again that he's not willing to spend. If all goes wrong Love will jump ship, trust me Love is not going to show Taylor KG-style loyalty even for big money.

Devilzsidewalk · Post #240 » by **Devilzsidewalk** » Tue May 1, 2012 7:19 pm

Pekovic is a great fit, they can't let him go. He gives us a huge advantage controlling the paint offensively. When Love and Pek were still healthy after Rubio went down, we were still reasonably competitive. I'm ok w/ Love/Pek/Rubio as our big 3 for the time being as long as we can get some competent role players. If Pek is traded for an Eric Gordon level perimeter threat or whatever, then replaced with some random, cheap FA center, I'm not convinced that makes us a better team than keeping Pek and putting MLE quality players at SG/SF.

I'm ready to build around that trio and just try to make good signings. Before Pekovic's emergence I wanted a big star at SG or SF, but after seeing us hanging with the best many nights despite the youth and almost zero quality around them, it seems logical to go forward with that trio for now. They can always make a trade later on, but the problem now isn't that we don't have a superstar at SG/SF, it's that the guys we have aren't contributing anything at all. Dragic, Delfino, Jeff Green, Mayo, etc, these are the level of guys I wouldn't mind seeing. If they want to go after Gordon or Batum, cool, but realistically speaking I'm fine with the 2nd and 3rd tier guys.