John Wall shot 28% outside of 3-feet this year

Optms · Post #41 » by **Optms** » Tue May 1, 2012 8:53 pm

I am dead serious.

He has all the tools and the style of a guard who would rather get his teammates shots then take on the role of scoring himself. His best attribute beside his freakish athleticism is his ability to look for his teammates, which is why he needs to have the ball in his hands. Its no surprise when Jordan Crawford came out of the line up, his game drastically improved.

MalReyn · Post #42 » by **MalReyn** » Tue May 1, 2012 8:55 pm

The tidbit about Wall being the worst 3-point shooter who had made at least one shot inspired me to search for other interesting people who might be "the worst" in the league in a certain category.

After a few fruitless searches turned up no interesting names, I finally checked out "the worst assist to turnover ratio of any player with at least one assist." The winner? Eddy Curry. Nice to know something never change.

ADoaN17 · Post #43 » by **ADoaN17** » Tue May 1, 2012 8:58 pm

And Coach Cal said a Tyreke/Wall backcourt could coexist... that would be the worst shooting backcourt in history.

rockymac52 · Post #44 » by **rockymac52** » Tue May 1, 2012 9:06 pm

At least he recognized that his three point shot wasn't any good this season, and he started taking a lot less attempts than he did last year. In his rookie year his 3pt% was a lot higher (although still pretty poor), but he was also taking about 3 times as many 3 pointers. So good for Wall for recognizing his weakness and limiting the inefficient shots he takes.

As a Wizards fan, I'll stay optimistic for now. I think his game has progressed a decent amount over the course of this season, even if his jumper still sucks. If he does ever develop a decent jumper, he'll be a perennial all-star. Honestly.

BBgun · Post #45 » by **BBgun** » Tue May 1, 2012 9:14 pm

look at it two ways though. the fact that he finished with a decent overall FG percentage shows how good he is at getting to the rim and finishing....

look at it the second way...the bad way. Defenders can sag off him up to 20 feet when hes on the perimiter.

ManualRam · Post #46 » by **ManualRam** » Tue May 1, 2012 9:14 pm

LionOfLannister wrote:

Between him and Tyreke Evans, what on earth is Calipari teaching his guards? He recruits uber-talented guys and lets them run loose on the NCAA, but doesn't show them how to play basketball and it hurts them in the long run.

players dont really learn under coach cal. he hides weaknesses, tries to make the pieces work for one yr, then rolls over the lineup.
he's the ultimate AAU coach.

rockymac52 · Post #47 » by **rockymac52** » Tue May 1, 2012 9:17 pm

Also, I think people's short-term expectations of John Wall are too high. If you compare his sophomore season to the sophomore seasons of Rose, Westbrook, Rondo, Paul, and Parker, Wall's doing just as well as them for the most part (better than some, worse than some).

Russell Westbrook shot 22.1% from 3 as a sophomore, and 41.8% from the field (worse than Wall).

The one thing that stands out compared to those 5 guys is Wall's turnovers, which are still a little too high. But that should get better with time as well.

Here's the PERs of those 6 players in their sophomore seasons:

Chris Paul: 22
Derrick Rose: 18.6
Russell Westbrook: 17.8
John Wall: 17.7
Tony Parker: 16.5
Rajon Rondo: 15.6

Wall's right on pace for where he needs to be at the moment. It would have been nice if he could already shoot the ball well, but it's a problem that a lot of young PGs have in the NBA, and many of them figure it out eventually.

rockymac52 · Post #48 » by **rockymac52** » Tue May 1, 2012 9:18 pm

BBgun wrote:look at it two ways though. the fact that he finished with a decent overall FG percentage shows how good he is at getting to the rim and finishing....

look at it the second way...the bad way. Defenders can sag off him up to 20 feet when hes on the perimiter.

And they do just that! And Wall is so good at getting to the hoop that he still manages to score relatively frequently. I'm telling you, just wait, if this kid ever gets an adequate jumper, he's going to go off.

magicman1978 · Post #49 » by **magicman1978** » Tue May 1, 2012 9:22 pm

Jazzfan12 wrote:
magicman1978 wrote:Wow. That could be the absolute worst in the league - regardless of position.

Nah, Tyreke is worse.

According to Hoop Data - Tyreke is 120/454 (26.4%) compared to 141/511 (27.6%) for Wall. I'm speechless.

Rondo is 100/307 (32.6%)

BBgun · Post #50 » by **BBgun** » Tue May 1, 2012 9:30 pm

rockymac52 wrote:
BBgun wrote:look at it two ways though. the fact that he finished with a decent overall FG percentage shows how good he is at getting to the rim and finishing....

look at it the second way...the bad way. Defenders can sag off him up to 20 feet when hes on the perimiter.

And they do just that! And Wall is so good at getting to the hoop that he still manages to score relatively frequently. I'm telling you, just wait, if this kid ever gets an adequate jumper, he's going to go off.

I'm with you man, I've been saying for a while that while he's more raw than a lot of young star PG's his ceiling is best PG in the league. Hes gonna need some serious work to get there but with his natural ability the sky is the limit. His speed an athleticism are otherworldy.

Post #51 » by **Duffman100** » Tue May 1, 2012 9:37 pm

How old is he? Can he develop?

People get so obsessed with player delivering right away. Sometime it takes a player a little longer...he's only had 2 years in the league, he's averaging 8.5 assists and almost 5 rebounds and you're calling him a bust?

I'd gladly take him on my team...without hesitation.

GhostsOfGil · Post #52 » by **GhostsOfGil** » Tue May 1, 2012 9:48 pm

King d wrote:
Optms wrote:Not a big deal IMO.

He is a pure point guard and one of the best in today's game at finding his teammates. He is good enough to score in double figures with ease because of his athleticism, he's a slasher and an open floor nightmare. Wall having a piss poor jump shot (which he can work on) is not a big deal. Just get him shooters and he'll find them.

Don't ever put "Wall" and "pure point guard" in the same sentence

Over reaction.

Is he a pure pg in the mold of Nash or Rondo? No, however he definitely is a pass first guard that has shown serious Jason Kidd like moments. Also keep in mind, the Wizards had very few offensive options so Wall had to force A LOT of his offense. If you actually watch Wall, you'll see there are times when he flat out carves up defenses with his passing.

Joseph17 · Post #53 » by **Joseph17** » Tue May 1, 2012 9:56 pm

He needs to change his form. His mechanics aren't that bad, but he releases it on the way down which is a recipe for failure. It kind of reminds me of the way Juwan Howard used to shoot.

Chosen01 · Post #54 » by **Chosen01** » Tue May 1, 2012 10:00 pm

FireRicBucher wrote:
Rerisen wrote:
supaflash wrote:Rose and Westbrook had similar weaknesses, and both have improved steadily through off season hard work. They both got a decent mid range game first to loosen things up and have both started to hit the 3 at a decent clip. The best example perhaps though is Tony Parker, who still doesn't have much of a 3, BUT he's deadly mid range and also just understands the game so much better, uses his speed and athleticism better and makes great decisions with the ball. He should take notes watching Parker and develop his jumper slowly and steadily.

Part of it is that its easier to work on what you are good at than what you are bad at.

Russell and Rose put it in the hard work, and now Wall is maybe realizing he has to. Though he also has longer to go. Rose actually had a decent mid-range coming in, quite in contrast to some of the thoughts about him.

If anything it has regressed as he's tried to incorporate the three and he needs to get back to it.

I don't think Westbrook is that great a shooter still, but he gets such good elevation on his pull up J, that it is very hard to contest.

It does seem like trying to develop a 3 point shot is a mistake for some players *cough*Wade*cough*.

Except it doesn't matter nearly as much with Wade because he isn't terrible from 4ft-23 feet in fact quite the opposite.

If John Wall could at least get a RESPECTABLE jumper he could be top 5 PG easily but that's a pretty big IF.

Rebuilding Year · Post #55 » by **Rebuilding Year** » Tue May 1, 2012 10:27 pm

The jumper will come for Wall.

He is absolutely Rose with a pass first mentality though.

He's right on pace for where he should be.

Post #56 » by **Doctor MJ** » Tue May 1, 2012 11:07 pm

GhostsOfGil wrote:
King d wrote:
Optms wrote:Not a big deal IMO.

He is a pure point guard and one of the best in today's game at finding his teammates. He is good enough to score in double figures with ease because of his athleticism, he's a slasher and an open floor nightmare. Wall having a piss poor jump shot (which he can work on) is not a big deal. Just get him shooters and he'll find them.

Don't ever put "Wall" and "pure point guard" in the same sentence

Over reaction.

Is he a pure pg in the mold of Nash or Rondo? No, however he definitely is a pass first guard that has shown serious Jason Kidd like moments. Also keep in mind, the Wizards had very few offensive options so Wall had to force A LOT of his offense. If you actually watch Wall, you'll see there are times when he flat out carves up defenses with his passing.

Did you just respond by essentially saying "I'm not saying he's the passer in the game, but he's Jason Kidd level"? That's pretty crazy man.

Is there anyone who doubts that Ricky Rubio is already a better passer than Wall?

Now consider: Rubio is known for his dreadful shooting but according to hoopdata always scores more outside of 3 feet, and does so with a better shooting percentage.

noobcake · Post #57 » by **noobcake** » Tue May 1, 2012 11:20 pm

Left Side Drive wrote:Irving > Wall

Thank you. I laugh at all the noobs saying Wall > Irving earlier in the season. For some people, a broken shot will always be broken.

Rose, Wall and Westbrick all have broken jumpers. Kyrie is alreay a top 5 shooting PG his rookie year.

Irving will be the best PG in the league within 2 years now that Rose's career is on the downstride.

TheKingOfVa360 · Post #58 » by **TheKingOfVa360** » Tue May 1, 2012 11:27 pm

noobcake wrote:
Left Side Drive wrote:Irving > Wall

Thank you. I laugh at all the noobs saying Wall > Irving earlier in the season. For some people, a broken shot will always be broken.

Rose, Wall and Westbrick all have broken jumpers. Kyrie is alreay a top 5 shooting PG his rookie year.

Irving will be the best PG in the league within 2 years now that Rose's career is on the downstride.

Irving has like one game with double digit assist. Wall is a way better passer, rebounder, and defender.

7-Day Dray · Post #59 » by **7-Day Dray** » Tue May 1, 2012 11:32 pm

LOL @ the people saying he isn't a pure PG. Dude averaged 8 assists with a piss-poor supporting cast for most of the year.

noobcake · Post #60 » by **noobcake** » Tue May 1, 2012 11:33 pm

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:
noobcake wrote:
Left Side Drive wrote:Irving > Wall

Thank you. I laugh at all the noobs saying Wall > Irving earlier in the season. For some people, a broken shot will always be broken.

Rose, Wall and Westbrick all have broken jumpers. Kyrie is alreay a top 5 shooting PG his rookie year.

Irving will be the best PG in the league within 2 years now that Rose's career is on the downstride.

Irving has like one game with double digit assist. Wall is a way better passer, rebounder, and defender.

Irving is an amazing passer. His assists are so deflated. He has better vision than Wall.

Ofc wall is a better rebounder being a bigger guard. Better defense than a rookie? I'm so surprised.