2012 NBA Draft - Part III

[montestewart]

CCJ, I agreewe can look to move Booker under the right circumstances but I wouldn't trade him for a project wing like Daye.

Just say no to Daye. I don't know how this is possible, but he looks even weaker and skinnier than when he was drafted.

Why would the Pistons want to break up Knight and Daye?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ, I agreewe can look to move Booker under the right circumstances but I wouldn't trade him for a project wing like Daye.

Certainly not straight up, jivelikenice.

Detroit would take Blatche and Crawford, and also give Ben Gordon, who is a terrific three-point shooter.

[Dat2U]

It's not like we have a legitimate SF currently on the roster anyways.

The rotation at the 3 had to be the worst in the league, maybe the worst i have ever seen.

Can anyone think of a worse rotation at the 3 than what the Wizards had this year?

Maybe Charlotte's? But yeah, point stands, the SF position for us was a disaster area. As far as I'm concerned, Chris Singleton might be better off as an undersized stretch 4 than an oversized underskilled SF.

[Nivek]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Mo Evans return, but as an assistant coach or a front office guy instead of as a player.

[nate33]

Will Barton also only shot 35%:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Will-Barton-5737/

Might as well just take Jae Crowder if he's available. Or trade Booker to move up in the draft -- I'm really worried that, as a hustle player, he will not be able to overcome his plantar fasciitis. Trade him now while he has high value and it's not obvious he has a career ending condition.

Denmon -- now that's what I'm talking about. A little short. But 40.7% from three.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Marcus-Denmon-6491/

Booker is a logical trade candidate for several reasons, as far as I'm concerned. Zonker, the foot injury is something you note, for sure. I think it is probably a routine injury and he will be okay, but then again ...

1. James Singleton at the end of the year, in his second appearance with the Wizards, was really good. Twice and it's no fluke. Get this guy back on the team. He kicked butt in China. James isn't as strong as Booker, but he gets up in transition. He's smooth from the top of the key. Singleton has the experience and the mental toughness. Booker is young but who is the better role player?

2. Nene Hilario trade. One of the cogs is going to play in the middle and it is he. Out of the young PFs, Vesely is pretty unique. He killed it at the end of the season. I mention Nene, because Kevin isn't going to be the starting C but he's going to play with Nene. Who is odd man out? Trevor Booker, IMO.

3. Kevin Seraphin has arrived as a scorer. He's ahead of Booker in the rotation, even if I think Booker is still better overall due to his defense and mobility. Seraphin is bigger, stronger, a better scorer, and he's young enough to get significantly better than Trevor.

Trevor Booker is good! He can be traded for another good player, or to possibly offload Blatche. Andray is probably going to be given minutes to rehabilitate his game and raise his trade average.

Seems to me Booker should be traded for a swingman who can shoot it. I proposed Austin Daye in some Ben Gordon scenarios. Trevor is a player a lot of teams would covet. Brandon Bass-type energizers are not elite players but they can be very good off the bench.

I agree. Trades involving Booker should definitely be under consideration. Not because we want him gone (he's one of my favorite players) but because it would probably be an example of selling high at a redundant position in order to fill a position of need.

I wouldn't trade him for Daye though. Daye shot 21% from 3-point range last year. Detroit fans hate him. They say he has a McGee-like basketball IQ.

[Dat2U]

So, ARGUABLY the New Jersey Nets had a slightly worse SF rotation this year. Charlotte actually WON at SF this year (their only position production victory) by 1.3 points of PER. All the credit for that victory goes to MJ.

Well I think Devin Brown wasn't horrible for them and although Corey Maggette is a shotjacker, has tunnel vision and doesn't play a lick of D, as a backup SF, he'll generally be productive.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ, I agreewe can look to move Booker under the right circumstances but I wouldn't trade him for a project wing like Daye.

Just say no to Daye. I don't know how this is possible, but he looks even weaker and skinnier than when he was drafted.

Daye is just a maybe. I give him 35% of becoming something special.

The deal would be to get rid of Blatche without any amnesty. That frees up the roster. The deal would get rid of Crawford, who is from Detroit and would be well-received. Jordan might slow Wall and he's prone to take bad threes. The deal would be to get a very, very underrated shooter. Ben Gordon had a 45-point game this season where hit his first 9 three pointers. Gordon has a higher three point average than Ray Allen. Gordon has averaged over 20 in the playoffs. Ben Gordon is a better Vinnie Microwave Johnson. That guy can definitely score in the fourth quarter--he's proven it by leading the league in fourth quarter scoring one season.

The deal would merely throw in Daye, who at 6'11" might just need to spot up and wait for the ball, same as Novak does. Wall can get it to him.

I just suggest things based on levels. Seems to me Booker traded might be better for Detroit but it could also help the Wizards a bunch. Washington needs a VETERAN, SUCCESSFUL SG. Ben Gordon also won at U Conn. He was the Kemba Walker of 7-8 years ago.

[Spence]

Daye shot 21% from 3-point range last year. Detroit fans hate him. They say he has a McGee-like basketball IQ.

That meets the legal definition of slander.

[tontoz]

Daye shot 21% from 3-point range last year. Detroit fans hate him. They say he has a McGee-like basketball IQ.

That meets the legal definition of slander.

It does not (assuming he is referencing message board comments).

Slander is spoken. When it is written it is libel.




*Spiderman reference*

[tontoz]

Why would the Pistons want to break up Knight and Daye?

That got a simultaneous lol and face palm from me. Well done

[popper]

A lot can happen between now and the beginning of next season but if I had to predict the future today, here is what I see.

Assumptions

Blatch will be untradeable early in the season and TL won’t want to eat his contract through a buyout or amnesty if he is at all serviceable. I think he remains on the roster as a backup C/PF.

Cartier Martin will be resigned.

Mo Evans will be resigned.

J. Singleton and Mason will not be resigned. Singleton is caught up in the numbers game at PF. Mason is a poor defender and becomes expendable when we acquire another SG in the draft.

Lewis is amnestied or bought out.

I think that brings the roster to 11. We probably carry a final roster of 14 instead of 15 for trade flexibility reasons. Therefore we would have three available slots.

Additions

SG – odds are that we end up at 3,4 or 5 and take Beal

SF – We trade up to select Crowder (I hope EG is listening to those on this board who like him)

PG or Combo Guard – We sign a veteran FA

If we decide to carry 15 I would sign/draft another big, preferably a center.

Final Roster

PG – Wall, Mack, Veteran
SG – Beal, Crawford, Evans
SF – Crowder, Singleton, Martin
PF – Vesely, Booker, Blatch
Center – Nene, Seraphon, Blatch

The way I see it, it makes no sense to re-sign Evans AND Martin. Mo went through an ordeal on the bench even during Wittman's run. Martin's minutes and his only went up when Roger Mason got hurt.

Mo and Cartier are somewhat redundant, but Cartier has distinguished himself the same as James Singleton. Twice he's played well as a reserve. He is 28, an ideal age for a sub.

I can't see keeping both Mo and Cartier because both are SG/SFs. The Wizards had Chris Singleton, and he looked better at the end of the season. They're going to draft a swing man. I think one of these guys doesn't come back. My guess is Mo has been all over the league and will find a home. I think Cartier, like James Singleton, will be back.

Morris Almond's shot really looked bad, and yet, he was very effective. If they give him a training camp his shot will look good. He has a good shot at being a Wizard next season because the guy played HARD and he didn't make mistakes. You KNOW he can shoot it. I think he has a pretty good shot to make the Wizards.

popper, your guess is as good as mine. You could very well be right about who stays. I'm going with the guys I have a bias for.

You're probably right. I forgot that CM can play SG as well. Blatch really screws things up. If we could somehow get rid of him everything would be much more clear regarding the roster.

[Spence]

Daye shot 21% from 3-point range last year. Detroit fans hate him. They say he has a McGee-like basketball IQ.

That meets the legal definition of slander.

It does not (assuming he is referencing message board comments).

Slander is spoken. When it is written it is libel.

I graduated with honors from GW University Law School. Not trying to boast, only establishing my bona fides. Since Nate typed the word "say" in reference to what Detroit fans think of Daye, I used the word slander.

In any case, part one: As a public figure, Daye would have to prove the accused slanderer either knew the statement to be false or uttered it in reckless disregard for the truth, which is incredibly difficult to prove, as you can imagine.

In any case, part two: The entire thing was in jest. Not a very good jest, apparently, but it has been a long day and my eyeballs are bleeding from over-use.*

*Also in jest.

[theboomking]

Dat's right that the history of the draft shows that elite talent is typically found at the top of the draft. Draft history also shows that very good (and sometimes great) players can be found later in the draft. To be blunt: teams don't do a very good job of picking players. Virtually every year, players slip through the cracks and end up being a find for someone who's picking later in the draft.

That is probably true, but as you said, those players are usually good, not great, and what are your odds of finding those players? Can you find a stud late round QB? Sure. But while the odds of missing on a top 5 QB might be 50%, the odds of missing on a QB in rounds 3-7 are probably 95%. To some degree, finding those players is a crapshoot. There is no secret formula, although some teams, like the spurs seem to do better.

Jeremy Lamb has ideal length and a SWEET shot, but dude's got some Nick Young in him. What am I missing on why J Lamb is not more prolific? Lamb would be the top guy for the Wizards if not for this past season.

I also really like Lamb, and think he could look really good next to Wall. Lamb had a 2p% over 60% this year, is a good 3 point shooter, and a great mid range shooter. On the Wizards, we wouldn't need or want Lamb to be an alpha dog, which was his biggest problem at Connecticut. We would be a perfect choice if he continued to catch and shoot and rebound. I guess Lamb might not be a great rebounder or passer, and in that way he is like NY. But, Lamb is an excellent team defender, and has much better shot selection than NY. I'd love to move back into the late lotto and grab him.

[Nivek]

Dat's right that the history of the draft shows that elite talent is typically found at the top of the draft. Draft history also shows that very good (and sometimes great) players can be found later in the draft. To be blunt: teams don't do a very good job of picking players. Virtually every year, players slip through the cracks and end up being a find for someone who's picking later in the draft.

That is probably true, but as you said, those players are usually good, not great, and what are your odds of finding those players?

Not bad, actually.

As I've continued researching the draft, I feel pretty good being able to identify players who are likely to be productive in the NBA.

Last year, it was Faried. Top 5 rating, went what, 22nd?

In 2010, there was Landry Fields (top 15 rating, went in the 2nd round); Jeremy Lin (mid-first rating).

The year before that, Lawson and Blair had good YODA ratings. So did Danny Green, who has played well since landing with the Spurs.

Most years, there's someone who rates highly in YODA, gets picked later and turns out to be good.

This year, I'd feel very comfortable picking Crowder later in the first round and expecting him to become a quality NBA player.

I think those good players are identifiable in advance of the draft.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

YODA is on to something I've done over the past ten years. Most people go by what they see. They love the height/reach/length of a player, the team the player plays on, the body type, whether the player has a famous family name, etc.

I don't care about that stuff. It matters some but can a guy play?

Performance over time against good competition can be measured. YODA's got it down. Intangibles and chemistry type stuff should be factored in. I like to see the background of the player. Knowing one's history can give you and something to work with because past performance is the best indicator of future performance.

I also like strong finishers. MJ's commercial (and I suspect how he feels as Bobcats owner) says "It's not how you start, it's how you finish."

[jivelikenice]

CCJ, I agreewe can look to move Booker under the right circumstances but I wouldn't trade him for a project wing like Daye.

Certainly not straight up, jivelikenice.

Detroit would take Blatche and Crawford, and also give Ben Gordon, who is a terrific three-point shooter.

Still don't like it. Gordon is a bad contract. We're giving two young prospects who are superior to Daye in Crawford and Booker. What about Book for Budinger?

[The Consiglieri]

I would trade 3 or 4 for 5 and 10 though.

Would you trade the #2 if you felt like Beal or MKG would still be at the #5?

2. Stiff hips - Not much wiggle in his game. Not very shifty or slick.

For some reason, that sounds like it's from a WizarDynasty post. Easier to read though.

Sure, but it would have to be more than "feel", it would have to be based on real and genuine workable "intelligence" so to speak on whats happening between 2-4, for me to do that. I don't have a problem moving to 5 if I know I can get Beal or MKG. The problem is, MKG appears to be a lock to go 2nd overall unless Drummond absolutely kills it in the workouts and interviews and turns away teams fears with him. MKG really appears to be locked in at 2, which pretty much would kill my interest in moving to 5. Where I would move to 5 and 10, is if all I can probably get is Robinson or Beal or Drummond where Im sitting. In that scenario, I'd love to add a pick in the top 10-12, and move to 5.

That being said, if we land 1, or 2, I wouldn't deal down period, and i very much doubt the F.O. would either, its 4 or 5 where interest in moving down might begin to percolate (because I don't think we're hugely interested in Robinson due the development and acquisitions at the 4 and 5 spots, and we might be scared off by Drummond). If we land 1, 2 or 3, I definitely think we'll stick at slot.

[Liverbird]

CCJ, I agreewe can look to move Booker under the right circumstances but I wouldn't trade him for a project wing like Daye.

Just say no to Daye. I don't know how this is possible, but he looks even weaker and skinnier than when he was drafted.

Daye is just a maybe. I give him 35% of becoming something special.

The deal would be to get rid of Blatche without any amnesty. That frees up the roster. The deal would get rid of Crawford, who is from Detroit and would be well-received. Jordan might slow Wall and he's prone to take bad threes. The deal would be to get a very, very underrated shooter. Ben Gordon had a 45-point game this season where hit his first 9 three pointers. Gordon has a higher three point average than Ray Allen. Gordon has averaged over 20 in the playoffs. Ben Gordon is a better Vinnie Microwave Johnson. That guy can definitely score in the fourth quarter--he's proven it by leading the league in fourth quarter scoring one season.

The deal would merely throw in Daye, who at 6'11" might just need to spot up and wait for the ball, same as Novak does. Wall can get it to him.

I just suggest things based on levels. Seems to me Booker traded might be better for Detroit but it could also help the Wizards a bunch. Washington needs a VETERAN, SUCCESSFUL SG. Ben Gordon also won at U Conn. He was the Kemba Walker of 7-8 years ago.

CCJ -

I still don't see why Detroit would do this. Is Booker/Crawford really enough incentive to 1) get rid of BG and 2) take on Blatche's salary for a year longer? I don't think so. This trade may help Detroit's cap space in the short term (2012/13 and 2013/14) by about $5M but it would include an additional year of Blatche (2014/15) AND they would need to potentially resign Booker and Crawford, which may or may not be ideal. I think from Detroit's perspective (and spoken as a Piston fan as well) they would rather keep BG and simply amnesty CV, especially since as you state, he's a better Microwave (I disagree but that's for another discussion). Now they could still amnesty CV post trade but there's still that issue of additional salary in 2014/15 and the fact that it's Blatche.

I did post a suggestion of an alternative BG trade in the Official Trade thread centering around Rashard Lewis, which I think would be more palatable. Perhaps Lewis/Crawford for BG/Austin Daye

Just my opinion as a fan of both teams.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Liverbird, when a fan of another team doesn't like my idea, and when the same idea only gets mixed or closer to poor reaction on this board; I feel I've gotten close to an equitable deal for both teams.

Detroit has no reason for Blatche when they've got Villanueva. I don't see why they do it, either.

Your idea of Lewis/Crawford for BG/Daye had to involve taking on some more salary from Detroit. Didn't it?

[Liverbird]

Liverbird, when a fan of another team doesn't like my idea, and when the same idea only gets mixed or closer to poor reaction on this board; I feel I've gotten close to an equitable deal for both teams.

Detroit has no reason for Blatche when they've got Villanueva. I don't see why they do it, either.

Your idea of Lewis/Crawford for BG/Daye had to involve taking on some more salary from Detroit. Didn't it?

Yup probably. I was assuming Lewis' salary was only the guaranteed $13M and therefore the salaries are pretty close, but when I tried the checker, apparently that's not the case.

Crawford has a trade restriction until Dec 31, 1969