PG: Philly evens series on lights out shooting

[Red Larrivee]

Because for two years now, it has never been Boozer's fault. I just want to know what exactly needs to be done, because until then, it will continue to never be Boozer's fault.

That's where I think you're reading the arguments wrong. I haven't seen anybody say that Boozer's struggles aren't his fault in some mix. But they are saying it isn't COMPLETELY his fault.

[pduh01]

Another thing is not only the offense needs to be better, not only the defense needs to be better too, but what we saw in game two that the Bulls didn't rebound the basketball very well, the Bulls got out-rebounded.

The Bulls needs to take care of the rebounding department as well, and I hope if we can't knock down the shot I hope the Bulls do a better job in transition defense too.

[AirP.]

Save yourself, don't be a glutton for a punishment. When Boozer has a good game then he was 'used right'. When he doesn't he wasn't.

Usually the difference is nothing more than if he was feeling in rhythm with his jumper. Of if the defense fell asleep numerous times and allowed him to sneak near the rim off ball.

There isn't much we can do to change it up that I see.

Shaq's pining for a 30/20 game from Boozer, for him to just demand the ball and take-over was so ludicrous and embarrassing as an analyst, he should have been kicked off the show on the spot.

Boozer was a terrible contract for Thib's team. Sure he can have great nights by shooting well from midrange and some easy baskets near the rim.

I don't think it's crazy to think Boozer isn't being utilized the best way he could be, ESPECIALLY with Rose not on the court.

[jl342323]

Save yourself, don't be a glutton for a punishment. When Boozer has a good game then he was 'used right'. When he doesn't he wasn't.

yes you two should just stop discussing boozer. i would really appreciate that.

[ChicagoStrong]

That game reminded me of that Toronto game after the all star break last year where they shot .581 from the field.

[Rerisen]

yes you two should just stop discussing boozer. i would really appreciate that.

Why don't you want people talking about Boozer? He is part of the team.

But ultimately no, not much to discuss. He is what he is. Don't see why people want to go over the same beaten to death discussions.

Right now all this is on the board is people struggling coming to grips with the reality of this team without Rose. There is no magic solution, no one guy that we just have to 'go to'. The team has no real second option. And hasn't for 2 years. If it it did, the would have emerged and it would be clear to all by now.

Some nights a random player, between Boozer, Deng or Rip will play well. But you can't predict it and you can't force it to happen.

When Boozer does bad, people say go to to Rip. When Rip does bad they say we should have went to Boozer more. When they both stink, people say the offense is built for a PG, let Watson and Lucas shoot because that is how we won without Rose.

The team is just not going to be good offensively very often without Rose. Play defense and rebound, that is our only consistent avenue to stay in games.

[AirP.]

I'd just like to see Thibs try to change an offense built for Rose be altered to take advantage of the other players skill sets. Since most of our players are open jump shooters, the only real way to get them open is hoping to get doubles in the low post.

No matter what, the Bulls offense is screwed and only players getting hot are going to make it look anywhere near ok.

[bullsnewdynasty]

Boozer is not a player who you can throw the ball to and just expect stuff to happen. He scores out of the flow of the offense, just like Deng or Hamilton, completely dependent on other players to break the defense down and get him the ball in a position to score. As a result, he can be taken out of the game very easily. He cannot deal with length and defenses that rotate well. And the other problem is that Boozer is not aggressive as evidenced by his career low in free throw attempts this year. For all of the commentary on Boozer not getting enough touches/shots, he's essentially averaging the same amount of shot attempts per game as he did in Utah, with minutes adjusted. His offensive volume is essentially maxed out.

[Rerisen]

I think Thibs is essentially correct on strategy when they described his comments, that no one on the team is going to be asked to change their game without Rose. They just have to do what they always do, but do it a little better.

Game 2, no one did what they normally do any better, or even in most cases, as well as they normally do. Except Noah.

[GetBuLLish]

Because for two years now, it has never been Boozer's fault. I just want to know what exactly needs to be done, because until then, it will continue to never be Boozer's fault.

That's where I think you're reading the arguments wrong. I haven't seen anybody say that Boozer's struggles aren't his fault in some mix. But they are saying it isn't COMPLETELY his fault.

No, I definitely read that. But sprinkling in a comment like "Plus Boozer has to play better" after about 10 posts centered on blaming others for Boozer's problems, doesn't really share the blame. It's been about two years now, literally two years, where the vast majority of Boozer's struggles have been placed upon people not named Boozer.

Save yourself, don't be a glutton for a punishment. When Boozer has a good game then he was 'used right'. When he doesn't he wasn't.

Usually the difference is nothing more than if he was feeling in rhythm with his jumper. Of if the defense fell asleep numerous times and allowed him to sneak near the rim off ball.

Exactly. Not only have some people constructed an argument that literally can't be proven wrong (because others will be blamed for Boozer), but a lot of the time they take both sides of the argument, as you've pointed out.

For instance:

and then boozer started 3-4 in the second game. when boozer started to miss shots, they just stopped going to him and played like they did all year, which is using boozer as a midrange jumpshooter to space the floor and a garbage man..

So JL praised Boozer's 3-4 start to the game. Then complained about Boozer being used as a midrange jumpshooter for the rest of the game. But JL failed to mention (or notice) that 2 out of Boozer's first 3 made field goals were jumpshots!

There isn't much we can do to change it up that I see.

I don't either. Offensively they just have to execute better, especially the Rip/Korver screen actions. They have to get back on defense, and they have to crash the boards like maniacs.

Shaq's pining for a 30/20 game from Boozer, for him to just demand the ball and take-over was so ludicrous and embarrassing as an analyst, he should have been kicked off the show on the spot.

Yea, that was really bad. It's getting very easy to tell that the other guys don't like having Shaq there, especially Kenny and Chuck. Apart from Shaq's awful analysis, he just seems like an immature baby, constantly trying to make things about himself.

I guess it's really not that surprising, considering Shaq burned basically every bridge for every team he played for.

[GetBuLLish]

Boozer is not a player who you can throw the ball to and just expect stuff to happen. He scores out of the flow of the offense, just like Deng or Hamilton, completely dependent on other players to break the defense down and get him the ball in a position to score. As a result, he can be taken out of the game very easily. He cannot deal with length and defenses that rotate well. And the other problem is that Boozer is not aggressive as evidenced by his career low in free throw attempts this year. For all of the commentary on Boozer not getting enough touches/shots, he's essentially averaging the same amount of shot attempts per game as he did in Utah, with minutes adjusted. His offensive volume is essentially maxed out.

Well said.

I'd just like to see Thibs try to change an offense built for Rose be altered to take advantage of the other players skill sets.

But that's the thing. I don't think one of Boozer's skill sets is getting the ball in the post. Unless he has a nice mismatch, you're actually putting Boozer in a situation where he will fail.

[AirP.]

But that's the thing. I don't think one of Boozer's skill sets is getting the ball in the post. Unless he has a nice mismatch, you're actually putting Boozer in a situation where he will fail.

I'm not saying he HAS to shoot it, but to get the ball in the low post, see what his options are and then either pass it to a cutter, pass it to an open player for a shot or take a shot. Moving the ball into the post changes how the defense has to guard because of the difference in the passing angles. Why keep things exactly the same.

I know I've said Boozer, but why not throw it a few times into the block to Noah and Taj too? The team shot 45% from the field this year and in game 2. Do we really believe that if we can get a guy that deep into the post they're going to shoot worse then that? Plus we may be able to pick up some fouls on their bigs trying to deny position.

Or of course, we stay the course and just be content having our 3rd string PG decide how far we're going to go in the playoffs. People can fight making Boozer a more focal point but nobody argues about our 3rd string PG being our focal point? So... who's your main scorer on your team... it's our 3rd string PG, he just pounds the ball and then tries to shake his man for a shot, it's a brilliant offense.

[Red Larrivee]

No, I definitely read that. But sprinkling in a comment like "Plus Boozer has to play better" after about 10 posts centered on blaming others for Boozer's problems, doesn't really share the blame. It's been about two years now, literally two years, where the vast majority of Boozer's struggles have been placed upon people not named Boozer.

Not true at all. There's things Boozer can do better to improve obviously, but to get on Boozer squarely when he has a bad game isn't even telling the entire story.

[BullsGate]

No, I definitely read that. But sprinkling in a comment like "Plus Boozer has to play better" after about 10 posts centered on blaming others for Boozer's problems, doesn't really share the blame. It's been about two years now, literally two years, where the vast majority of Boozer's struggles have been placed upon people not named Boozer.

Not true at all. There's things Boozer can do better to improve obviously, but to get on Boozer squarely when he has a bad game isn't even telling the entire story.

Don't you get tired of defending boozer who should be in prison for stealing millions of money?

[AirP.]

Don't you get tired of defending boozer who should be in prison for stealing millions of money?

The contract is already inked, his play is no way associated to his contract. The contract was to acquire the player. He was vastly overpaid, especially how much Chicago utilizes him.

Just get past the contract, only bring it up for trades and salary cap scenarios. I hope Boozer is moved in the off season but until then, I'd like to utilize what skills he has for the team NOW. I just happen to believe Boozer can help the offense more then he currently is.

[bullsnewdynasty]

Or of course, we stay the course and just be content having our 3rd string PG decide how far we're going to go in the playoffs. People can fight making Boozer a more focal point but nobody argues about our 3rd string PG being our focal point? So... who's your main scorer on your team... it's our 3rd string PG, he just pounds the ball and then tries to shake his man for a shot, it's a brilliant offense.

Someone asked Friedell why Lucas dribbles the ball and shoots so much while not looking to get others involved. I think he said it best in his response that it's the way he's played his entire basketball career. He's a 29 year old player. Lucas sure as hell ain't changing the way he plays at this point in his career. The choice is to either not play him or deal with his style of play.

[AirP.]

Or of course, we stay the course and just be content having our 3rd string PG decide how far we're going to go in the playoffs. People can fight making Boozer a more focal point but nobody argues about our 3rd string PG being our focal point? So... who's your main scorer on your team... it's our 3rd string PG, he just pounds the ball and then tries to shake his man for a shot, it's a brilliant offense.

Someone asked Friedell why Lucas dribbles the ball and shoots so much while not looking to get others involved. I think he said it best in his response that it's the way he's played his entire basketball career. He's a 29 year old player. Lucas sure as hell ain't changing the way he plays at this point in his career. The choice is to either not play him or deal with his style of play.

Sure, just like Earl Watson and a number of PGs in the league. I'd go with Mike James over JL3 personally but Thibs refuses to change anything and JL3 is a scoring PG which Thibs has built this team dependent on.

I like Thibs, he's a hell of a defensive coach, but I think we may be seeing an aspect of him that may hold him back as a complete coach, he refuses to adjust unless he absolutely has to. This goes for rotation, in game adjustments and playing style. Although Rasual Butler isn't a "good" player, he was a better fit for this team then Bogans was last year, he brought some offense while being solid defensively. Just a little offense while being able to play some defense may have changed a lot of things for the Bulls vs the Heat last year.

Thibs just doesn't believe in change and that's just how he is. I'd guess he figures it can disrupt a locker room. But then again, I think season ending injury to your best player and getting smoked at home are also disruptions. I just don't know, if you're in that locker room, are you more happy to look at JL3 being your offensive savior or would you be willing to roll the dice and let one of your starters take that role.

Now what JL3 have a super scoring game... too bad those aren't involving his teammates nor a regular thing he does.

[Ice Man]

JL3 is less of a problem than Watson. They both pound the ball and struggle defensively, but JL3 compensates with his scoring. (For example, his plus/minus on Tuesday was -1, very good given that the team got blown out.) Whereas Watson doesn't have a strength that makes up for his weaknesses.

Little Johnnie's a nice useful 10 minute offensive spark plug off the bench. I mean sure the Bulls are playing him too much but what are you going to do with the superstar hurt? CJ however I don't quite know what to do with, don't see what is role is.

[AirP.]

Little Johnnie's a nice useful 10 minute offensive spark plug off the bench. I mean sure the Bulls are playing him too much but what are you going to do with the superstar hurt? CJ however I don't quite know what to do with, don't see what is role is.

Right... how about instead of handing over the offense that much to Lucas(and Watson) we lean on our bigs(not Asik). Give them more touches inside.

What I'm basically hearing from the anti down low game is that they'd rather have Lucas and Watson try to score instead of Boozer(and Taj and Noah) in the post. I can say it's not a great option, but it's a hell of a lot better then relying on Watson or JL3 in my opinion. Going into the low post doesn't mean they have to shoot, but just to run some offense through(not all either, keep changing it up).

[kyrv]

No, I definitely read that. But sprinkling in a comment like "Plus Boozer has to play better" after about 10 posts centered on blaming others for Boozer's problems, doesn't really share the blame. It's been about two years now, literally two years, where the vast majority of Boozer's struggles have been placed upon people not named Boozer.

Not true at all. There's things Boozer can do better to improve obviously, but to get on Boozer squarely when he has a bad game isn't even telling the entire story.

Don't you get tired of defending boozer who should be in prison for stealing millions of money?

Boozer hasn't stolen anything, so, no, he shouldn't be in prison.

The Cleveland fiasco was unethical and violated NBA rules but not any laws.

Otherwise I agree with you though.

Boozer doesn't need to be defended by the way. He's the player they signed. His scoring efficiency (TS%) is down which is the one area he's under performing in. Given how he is used, this probably won't improve too much, but we can hope.