Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 12

[JamesNaismith]

With the 8th pick in the 2012 draft, The Toronto Raptors select.....

Terrence Jones from blah blah blah blah



Can you imagine the boards reaction to that? hahaha it would be priceless.

That being said, I can see his stock rising during workouts.

Honestly at this point our options are so unexciting that I'm starting to care less of who we take. Without someone falling to us (ie/ Lamb or Barnes) this will be as unemotional of a draft I've been through in years...

I would hope that we either draft PJ3 and swing for the fences or draft Sullinger as the BPA and start creating trade packages for Bargnani but if neither happen I'm certainly not going to cry if we miss out on them either. The distant plan B is either Lillard or Rivers...both whom I just can't get excited over as one reminds me of a possibly better Bayless and the other is OJ Mayo without defence.

[kmatrixg]

With the 8th pick in the 2012 draft, The Toronto Raptors select.....

Terrence Jones from blah blah blah blah



Can you imagine the boards reaction to that? hahaha it would be priceless.

That being said, I can see his stock rising during workouts.

Honestly at this point our options are so unexciting that I'm starting to care less of who we take. Without someone falling to us (ie/ Lamb or Barnes) this will be as unemotional of a draft I've been through in years...

I would hope that we either draft PJ3 and swing for the fences or draft Sullinger as the BPA and start creating trade packages for Bargnani but if neither happen I'm certainly not going to cry if we miss out on them either. The distant plan B is either Lillard or Rivers...both whom I just can't get excited over as one reminds me of a possibly better Bayless and the other is OJ Mayo without defence.

Thank you. I add Lamb to that duo, to create the Three Stooges of an episode rightly named "Teammates? What teammates? Nyuck Nyuck Nyuck"

[daleface]

If everyone who we expect is gone. Then I hope we draft Rivers.

If he can excel and reach his potential which I think he can on this team. And with the US media likely to overrate and hype him because of who he is. He could net us a huge haul later on.

Yes, I would trade him regardless of how good he becomes because I think he would bolt the first chance he gets.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

I just want to pick Austin Rivers and get this circus over with. Go big or go home.

I guess you're going home. He's 6'4.

And Sam Bowie is 7'1.

Your point?

6'4 is not big and his upside is far from the biggest, so you're not really going big if you take Rivers.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Here's the next OKC, San Antonio, or Chicago pick: Josep Franch, PG, 6'4'', Spain

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeaOQjhacyg&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

I hope we pick him, for the record. But, I can easily see one of those aforementioned teams picking him, especially if he has a strong Eurocamp prior to the draft. Plus, he can learn from fellow spaniard Jose Calderon. I think he'd be a great pick, if we can move up from our 2nd rd. pick.

[Double Helix]

Was curious to see where Lamb had advantages over Derozan so I did a little comparison. Beyond the fact that I like the way he moves with the ball at his height, I was pretty surprised to see just how similar Lamb and Derozan's numbers were as freshmen when averaged over 40 minutes.

What follows is both player's freshmen campaigns averaged out over 40.

PPG:
DEMAR: 16.6
LAMB: 16.0

TS%:
DEMAR: 0.56
LAMB: 0.57

FTAs
DEMAR: 5.0
LAMB: 2.1

3PAs and %
DEMAR: 0.2 @ 0.16%
LAMB: 1.6 @ 0.36%

RPG:
DEMAR: 7.3
LAMB: 6.4

APG:
DEMAR: 1.7
LAMB: 2.3

SPG:
DEMAR: 1.1
LAMB: 1.2

TOV/G
DEMAR: 2.5
LAMB: 1.8

PER:
DEMAR: 19.3
LAMB: 20.3

------------------------------------------------------------------

Keep in mind that beyond higher usage, more minutes played... not a whole lot as changed between the per 40 avearges Lamb had as a Freshmen and a Sophmore. He's taking more 3s and hitting less. He's scoring a couple more points. But most of the other data's fairly consistent.

They appear to be fairly comparable in:

Rebounding
Steals
TS%
passing

Derozan has 2 advantages:

Better athlete
Significantly more aggressive at getting to the line


Lamb has 3 advantages:

More 3pms
Better dribbling ability
Slightly better assist to turnover ratio

------------------------------------------------------------

What does this mean to us as Raptors fans? I think the question here becomes is there any chance that Lamb has more to show than he showed in 2 years at UCONN on stacked teams? Derozan's USC team wasn't anywhere near as stacked in talent as the two UCONN teams Lamb's played on. But what I find alarming here is that so many of us are excited by Lamb's dribbling ability when in fact it doesn't appear as though he's using that to his advantage in any tangible way that provides an advantage over the way Derozan approaches the game. Lamb's superior ball handling hasn't lead to more free throw trips. He doesn't pass much better so it's not like he's using it to find teammates. If the advantage is merely an aesthetic one then it doesn't hold much value beyond Demar's ability to dunk better than Lamb. Neither are significant passers. Both seemed to impact the game about similarly according to PER.

It seems like there are reasons to believe both may end up being similarly valued (non-star SGs) for different reasons. I think Lamb looks to be a better prospect at the same age than Derozan but for different reasons. Derozan is headed more down the Maggette path of high FTAs and scoring. Lamb seems to be headed more down the Marcus Thornton path of scoring while having a bit more passing (but nothing insane) and a 3 point shot in his arsenal. Neither appear to be star types but both should be valuable if paired with complimentary PGs and SFs.

I feel pretty comfortable prioritizing Sullinger ahead of Lamb (barring workout reports that might refute my conclusions) as a result of these findings and I'm even a little more interested in Lillard than I was before. This doesn't mean I don't like Lamb. I do. In fact, I like him a lot just as I currently like Derozan. I'm just disheartened to imagine him max value hovering around 17.0 in PER range and wondering if it makes more sense to go for a PF that could be more dominant at his position than Lamb would be at SG or a PG that could be more dominant as well.

I feel like he has more to prove though so I might flip flop here if workout reports are good. He has been asked to play with a lot of college stars lately.

[Rhettmatic]

It's weird how everyone keeps talking about Lamb "falling" to us when every draft site is projecting him way lower than our pick.

[Marlo Stanfield]

It's weird how everyone keeps talking about Lamb "falling" to us when every draft site is projecting him way lower than our pick.

It's because no one understands why that is. Also, judging by his physical gifts he'll be a workout legend.

[Double Helix]

It's weird how everyone keeps talking about Lamb "falling" to us when every draft site is projecting him way lower than our pick.

My only thought is what if it's a Westbrook scenario where he's just been a team player and could dominate more? I think workouts will tell a lot.

Love the dribbling ability
Love the fact that he can shoot it better from deep than Demar
A little concerned by the lack of aggressiveness and lack of FTAs
Disappointed that the better handle didn't result in dramatically more opportunities for teammates
A little concerned that Derozan hasn't become super valuable already. Makes me wonder a little how much better an even more passive SG might be. That said, a lot of Demar's value is tied to his %s and lack of a 3 point shot. If he gets either going he'll move up in terms of value considerably. The fact that Lamb already seems further along there is promising.

There are question marks everywhere at our pick but only because we all want to land that near-all star talent. Almost any of these guys will be an above average player but we all want more and that's why I'm bringing in the criticism to try and determine who's best equipped to be top 15 at his respective position.

[God Squad]

It's weird how everyone keeps talking about Lamb "falling" to us when every draft site is projecting him way lower than our pick.

I was thinking the exact same thing. I guess people really believe "Lamb" is one of those risers who works his way into top 10?? Personally I see the top picks pretty much set. The order is unknown, but the players imo are all there.

[Rhettmatic]

It's weird how everyone keeps talking about Lamb "falling" to us when every draft site is projecting him way lower than our pick.

It's because no one understands why that is. Also, judging by his physical gifts he'll be a workout legend.

I like Lamb too, don't get me wrong. If the top 7 shakes down the way DX has it right now, he'd be my pick at 8 and I would be pretty excited about it, too (although as I've admitted before, I don't know enough about Damian Lillard to make an informed decision on him).

But lots of players could rise in workouts. It just seems strange that everyone has decided collectively that he's the one guy whose stock is higher than it seems at the moment.

[BirdmanPresents]

It's weird how everyone keeps talking about Lamb "falling" to us when every draft site is projecting him way lower than our pick.

I was thinking the exact same thing. I guess people really believe "Lamb" is one of those risers who works his way into top 10?? Personally I see the top picks pretty much set. The order is unknown, but the players imo are all there.

This. I do think he will look good in workouts and will actually make top 10, but lots of people wanted him when we were projected a top 5 pick. After the likes of MKG, Beal, Barnes etc.

[JamesNaismith]

It's weird how everyone keeps talking about Lamb "falling" to us when every draft site is projecting him way lower than our pick.

It's because no one understands why that is. Also, judging by his physical gifts he'll be a workout legend.

I like Lamb too, don't get me wrong. If the top 7 shakes down the way DX has it right now, he'd be my pick at 8 and I would be pretty excited about it, too (although as I've admitted before, I don't know enough about Damian Lillard to make an informed decision on him).

But lots of players could rise in workouts. It just seems strange that everyone has decided collectively that he's the one guy whose stock is higher than it seems at the moment.

Quite simply because he is arguebly the most skilled (and top scoring) wing and has freakish measurements.


That's a clear recipe to rise in the combine.

[Double Helix]

Yeah, he'll rise. I just wanted to point out some of the surprising similarities statistically between him and Derozan but in an open gym Lamb's ball handling will shine through and people will project beyond his numbers at UCONN.

I think if his assists totals were higher I'd be sold on him. I just find it disappointing that he's a better ball handler than Derozan was and yet he doesn't really have a substantial advantage passing the ball or getting to the net over him. In fact, he appears almost passive by comparison as far as getting to the line goes in comparison to Demar.

[DG88]

Yeah, he'll rise. I just wanted to point out some of the surprising similarities statistically between him and Derozan but in an open gym Lamb's ball handling will shine through and people will project beyond his numbers at UCONN.

I think if his assists totals were higher I'd be sold on him. I just find it disappointing that he's a better ball handler than Derozan was and yet he doesn't really have a substantial advantage passing the ball or getting to the net over him. In fact, he appears almost passive by comparison as far as getting to the line goes in comparison to Demar.

It's one of the reason why right now he isn't projected into the top 10 right now on most mocks. GM's are wondering about Lamb's competitiveness. They see the tools but does he have the attacking mindset. If he did then he'd be in the top 5 without question.

[Rhettmatic]

Yeah, he'll rise. I just wanted to point out some of the surprising similarities statistically between him and Derozan but in an open gym Lamb's ball handling will shine through and people will project beyond his numbers at UCONN.

I think if his assists totals were higher I'd be sold on him. I just find it disappointing that he's a better ball handler than Derozan was and yet he doesn't really have a substantial advantage passing the ball or getting to the net over him.

Well, DeMar had the ball in his hands a lot more than Lamb did when you compare freshman years -- 19.4 % tm pos for DD vs. 14.4 for Lamb. And I would argue that Lamb's 1.27 assist/TO ratio is a fair bit better than DeMar's 0.70. By comparison's sake, Barnes had a pretty gross 0.58 A/TO ratio in his sophomore year despite getting even more touches than DeMar did, while Beal had a 1.05 A/TO ratio with about as many touches as DeMar.

If you compare Lamb's freshman and sophomore years, it really looks like Lamb was motivated toward getting his numbers in his sophomore year and was less concerned with setting up teammates. Which doesn't reflect particularly well on him, but I still think he's got better playmaking skills than DeMar did/does -- and Barnes too, for that matter.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Yeah, he'll rise. I just wanted to point out some of the surprising similarities statistically between him and Derozan but in an open gym Lamb's ball handling will shine through and people will project beyond his numbers at UCONN.

I think if his assists totals were higher I'd be sold on him. I just find it disappointing that he's a better ball handler than Derozan was and yet he doesn't really have a substantial advantage passing the ball or getting to the net over him. In fact, he appears almost passive by comparison as far as getting to the line goes in comparison to Demar.

Lamb just looks like a basketball player while DD always seemed an athlete first and basketball player second.

Lamb has the length and wingspan that cant be tough which makes his defensive potential leaps and bounds over what DD could produce.

He has range on his shot and can handle the ball. He played with a couple of ball dominant pgs his 2 years at UConn, so maybe he was just playing the role he was assigned.

[Rhettmatic]

^ UConn always looked like a mess to me in general. If ever there was a time as a Raptors fan where I'd be comfortable drafting a highly skilled guy with a questionable motor, it's now with Casey as our coach.

[JN]

It's weird how everyone keeps talking about Lamb "falling" to us when every draft site is projecting him way lower than our pick.

It's because no one understands why that is. Also, judging by his physical gifts he'll be a workout legend.

As I said in another thread, he fell because he settled way too much this year (even with the Bazz the moron factor), as I observed in the key games he played. The stats support this. For the season. over 46% of his shot attempts were threes, and his three point % was average (33%). It became much worse, against top opponents -- threes made up a ridiculous 54% of his attempts, and his % on threes was 28%. The fact that he would look to create against bad teams in the BE when Bazz was there, but against a good team just start settling and chucking is a poor sign.

Bazz did limit him alot, but he made no attempt to create against SU, Louisville, and Georgetown. The three games against Syracuse (which were all in the last quarter of the season) really hurt his rep, And yes I indeed watched those games very carefully. Playing a zone is an adverse situation. But to play a team three times over the span of three to four weeks and make no adjustments or changes to your game, is going to bother scouts. He simply was not moving out there. Against SU's 2-3, you can get 23-25 footers all game long off simple movement. Not a smart shot, but Lamb was content to take it. He made no effort to get to soft spots. Even Drummond was able to get soft spots against SU.

Don't shoot the messanger - it is not unexplainable why there is a negative buzz out there from some scouts. The above is the reason he fell in the eyes of NBA scouts. There are many valid excuses, and he also has the skillset to impress as you noted and move back up.

[kingz32]

Lamb is lanky, but he docile in his mentality and soft. That's why his stock is low. Yeah he can hit jump shots but outside of that he brings nothing else to the table. Poor rebounder, below average passer. He's a poor man's Kevin Martin.