Official Trade Thread: Part 3

Moochthemonkey · Post #181 » by **Moochthemonkey** » Mon May 7, 2012 4:50 am

Kerrsed wrote:
1. Its to help us get Rondo.

If it came to that it's understandable, but Gortat and Nash alone seems suffice.

It seems to me that Dudley has been included as an "add-in" in various trades I've seen on these boards for the purpose of getting late round draft picks.

2. Its for 2 late first rounders in a deep draft.

2 Alando Tuckers is not much better than 1 Alando Tucker.

you act like were talking about an all-star or something.

yes it seems to me like some may treat late first round picks as future all stars.

or if you meant to say "you act like Jared Dudley is an all star" then no I don't, I act like he's a better player than Alando Tucker :lol:

[/semantics]

I mean of course there's a fair possibility that a better player than Alando Tucker will be available in the late first round but still, there's not much reason in gambling. What holes are are a late round draft pick going to fill on this team? There's even less reason to give away Jared Dudley considering he's underpaid.

I feel like we'd be able to pack Channing Frye and/or Shannon Brown (in a S&T perhaps) for a late first round pick in one of the multi-player (and multi-team?) deal.

YouTube · Post #182 » by **Kerrsed** » Mon May 7, 2012 5:06 am

See, your issue is that the Suns FO has you brainwashed into believing that all late 1st round picks are Tuckers, when they really arnt. Hell, your man Dudley was drafted #23 in the same draft as Tucker!

Do some research and you can see that there are plenty of great players in the league that were drafted late in the first, or early in the 2nd. This is a very deep draft, and plenty of the players available late would end up Lotto picks if they waited till next year.

Post #183 » by **TASTIC** » Mon May 7, 2012 5:33 am

I really like Gee, but not for that price

I think he has more upside than Brown and has great finishing ability and athleticism - he draws a lot of free throws and could be a handy player here. But handy players is what we seem to keep accumulating rather than difference makers...

nevetsov · Post #184 » by **nevetsov** » Mon May 7, 2012 5:53 am

The kiwi speaks the truth - don't we have enough bargain role players?

This would leave us with

Dudley
Childress
Gee

All under contract on the wings. Add in a potential Hill re-signing, and maybe a pick, and it doesn't look like we'd be inviting Redd or Brown back.

Is Gee really that much of an upgrade over those two at that price? And if we get an actually starting SG, is he going to be redundant with Duds and Childress?

DirtyDez · Post #185 » by **DirtyDez** » Mon May 7, 2012 7:54 am

Moochthemonkey wrote:Geez why the frick are we including Jared Dudley in all these deals for late first rounders?

If Nash leaves then Dudley and Gortat's value will be at all time highs. Neither will imrpove next season without Nash. That PHX/BOS trade makes a lot of sense if KG and Ray Ray return to the Celtics.

Nash, Bradley
Allen, Dudley
Pierce, Dudley/FA
KG, Bass
Gortat, FA

That team is guaranteed a spot in the final four next year season...

When can teams start trading anyway? Right after the Finals end?

YouTube · Post #186 » by **Kerrsed** » Mon May 7, 2012 8:03 am

DirtyDez wrote:
Moochthemonkey wrote:Geez why the frick are we including Jared Dudley in all these deals for late first rounders?

If Nash leaves then Dudley and Gortat's value will be at all time highs. Neither will imrpove next season without Nash. That PHX/BOS trade makes a lot of sense if KG and Ray Ray return to the Celtics.

Nash, Bradley
Allen, Dudley
Pierce, Dudley/FA
KG, Bass
Gortat, FA

That team is guaranteed a spot in the final four next year season...

When can teams start trading anyway? Right after the Finals end?

Any team that is not currently playing in the playoffs (including Dallas) can make trades whenever they want. As soon as a non-playoff teams season ends, their offseason (including trades) can begin.

DirtyDez · Post #187 » by **DirtyDez** » Mon May 7, 2012 8:14 am

Kerrsed wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
Moochthemonkey wrote:Geez why the frick are we including Jared Dudley in all these deals for late first rounders?

If Nash leaves then Dudley and Gortat's value will be at all time highs. Neither will imrpove next season without Nash. That PHX/BOS trade makes a lot of sense if KG and Ray Ray return to the Celtics.

Nash, Bradley
Allen, Dudley
Pierce, Dudley/FA
KG, Bass
Gortat, FA

That team is guaranteed a spot in the final four next year season...

When can teams start trading anyway? Right after the Finals end?

Any team that is not currently playing in the playoffs (including Dallas) can make trades whenever they want. As soon as a non-playoff teams season ends, their offseason (including trades) can begin.

Well Nash can't sign with another team until July so i doubt there will be any trades from us before that. If anything does happen and we make a trade to improve the roster short term and then he bolts we're basically screwed. Hopefully they agree to part ways before the draft because lots of deals go down that night. NFL does it best, FA then the draft follows. Based on Babby's comments it sounds like they might be expecting Nash to leave.

Moochthemonkey · Post #188 » by **Moochthemonkey** » Mon May 7, 2012 8:56 am

Kerrsed wrote:See, your issue is that the Suns FO has you brainwashed into believing that all late 1st round picks are Tuckers, when they really arnt. Hell, your man Dudley was drafted #23 in the same draft as Tucker!

Do some research and you can see that there are plenty of great players in the league that were drafted late in the first, or early in the 2nd. This is a very deep draft, and plenty of the players available late would end up Lotto picks if they waited till next year.

1. Seems like the whole "very deep draft" spiel is said every year...we can only wait and see.

2. I'm well aware good players can be drafted as later picks. In fact I mentioned that at the end of my post. Alando Tucker was more or a less an example used for the sake of humor and to show what can potentially go wrong. We've also drafted Nate Robinson and Rondo at #21, Fernandez at #24, and snagged Barbosa, Diaw, Dragic in their early days.. But the bottom line is, with the exception to Rondo they are all ROLE PLAYERS (Diaw and Barbosa had a couple of borderline all-star years in Phoenix by playing alongside Nash in Phoenix, but that's it.). Why are we trading role players for more possible role players?

It's not a bad trade by any means...but it's a trade that's being proposed just for the sake of making trades. it's a gamble that doesn't make much sense to me. Late Round draft pick calibre players will always be available, whether it be through the draft or free agency. Admittingly my jimmies get extra rustled because I'm on the Jared Dudley bandwagon.

YouTube · Post #189 » by **Kerrsed** » Mon May 7, 2012 9:07 am

Moochthemonkey wrote:1. Seems like the whole "very deep draft" spiel is said every year...we can only wait and see.

Its the exact opposite!!! Every year they say, "This draft class sucks", and "Only a few real pros in the bunch"!

Post #190 » by **bwgood77** » Tue May 8, 2012 12:51 am

I really doubt we are going to simply trade players for draft picks unless the plan was to really go into tank mode. But, based on Sarver's history, even though it will be tough to remain solidly in the playoff picture unless we keep Nash AND sign a miracle free agent signing, I'm not sure he would give up hope and tear it all down to rebuild it.

The only scenarios I could see him willing to completely tear everything down for a rebuild, is,

(1) if he was thinking about selling the team, and potential buyers wanted him to start over and lower payroll.

(2) he figured out the numbers and realized that if he can go with a low payroll for a couple of years, while younger players developed, he could make a profit EVEN if attendance suffered.

With either of the above scenarios, I seriously doubt he would go out and spend all of the available cap space if he was just planning on rebuilding, because basically it would be pointless and it would be throwing money down the drain. OKC and Memphis stayed WELL under the salary cap for years and it allowed them to be astute with moves (like taking back Kurt Thomas' salary along with two first rounders for OKC and Memphis letting younger players develop and retaining cap space so they could make a signing for the right player WHEN he became available (Zach Randolph) and allowing flexibility to re-sign their own free agents (Gasol and Conley) while also being able to take back salary in a trade if need be (Speights trade when ZBo and Arthur went down).

Now, if they want to go the Memphis/OKC route, it would probably be the smartest way to go since the west is so tough right now anyway, and if we took 3-4 years to rebuild while the Lakers/Spurs/Mavs got older, we could draft high for a few years and hopefully hit the jackpot.

But I don't see Sarver as the guy to do that...I think he thinks we can re-tool and stay competitive, even though it is a long shot.

He has mentioned he didn't want to own a team that isn't competitive every year....so I just can't see him trading good players for picks. Especially when most of the picks we have made and kept over the years since he has owned the team haven't turned into much.

Frank Lee · Post #191 » by **Frank Lee** » Tue May 8, 2012 2:04 am

Its hard to figure the route we take. But I do think they have a plan. Babby has waxed poetically about a tree with branches using his trained lawyer speak to answer questions without concreting his feet. The point is, they have options, but do not completely control the path. Plan A, Plan B, Plan C ???

Its logical.

Furthermore, I think he has more input to this teams direction than what is thought... or at least, they, Blanks included, have agreed upon a method(s) to improve. I do not think BabbyLon would have taken this job to be a 'yes' man and believe before he took it, they spelled out their vision, goals, and duties. Wouldnt you do that if considering the circumstances?

BabbyLon u n d e r s t a n d s the CBA and its tricky rules more so than Kerr-plunk and D'cAnt. I think Sarver respects him for that as he is more on Lon's level than those know-it-all jocks. No question that Sarver took the heat for their inept actions. We like to pin it all on Booby, because he's an easy guy to not like. But, for some reason, in the face of all the negativity surrounding our FO, the LB's took the jobs....

and now its 'Go' time.

bwgood77 wrote:(2) he figured out the numbers and realized that if he can go with a low payroll for a couple of years, while younger players developed, he could make a profit EVEN if attendance suffered.

I'll take door #2

I'd support a new young team who laid it out there every night. One thing BabbyLon continues to request is patience. That hardly sounds like the word Nash wants to hear.

grumpysaddle · Post #192 » by **grumpysaddle** » Tue May 8, 2012 6:37 am

At least there's an easy and appropriate headline if things with Babby and Blanks don't go smoothly...

"Suns Firing Blanks"

GrantHill · Post #193 » by **GrantHill** » Tue May 8, 2012 6:02 pm

Seems like Bell wants out in Utah

Raja Bell / Al Jefferson for Hakim Warrick

Nash / Brooks / Telfair
Bell / Lamb / Redd
Hill / Dudley / Childress
Jefferson / Morris
Gortat / Frye

Hill+Bell would be great perimeter defense, we add a low post scoring option (+go-to-guy) and keep our flexibility for 2013.

Fo-Real · Post #194 » by **Fo-Real** » Tue May 8, 2012 6:10 pm

Steve isnt coming back, and Raja is done. I dont want any of the castoffs ie. Bell, Diaw, Amundson, Earl Clark, Barbosa, and all of the other guys we shed, back, none of them. There are people on this board who are too nostalgic. We need to rebuild with defense and youth if Nash isnt coming back.

Saberestar · Post #195 » by **Saberestar** » Tue May 8, 2012 6:14 pm

Jefferson would be a great addition, but his value is very high now.
That trade is very unlikely.

I think is more realistic something like:

Al Jefferson
for
Markieff Morris + Nº13 2012 Pick + Cap space

GrantHill · Post #196 » by **GrantHill** » Tue May 8, 2012 6:25 pm

Bell and Nash are good friends so there would be another reason for him to return (I bet that he'll). Bell might not be as quick as four years ago, but he is still a good defender and 3-point shooter and he would allow to move Dudley to the bench.

Fo-Real · Post #197 » by **Fo-Real** » Tue May 8, 2012 6:36 pm

Replacing Duds with old clothsline bell, would not make us better. Neither should start on a team serious about winning. So if Steve comes back based on Bell, then he isnt serious about winning either. It would just be a ploy from the front office to sell tickets based on Nash being back.

Scubetrolis · Post #198 » by **Scubetrolis** » Tue May 8, 2012 7:16 pm

I will never understand this boards obsession with bringing back players just because they used to play here.

Raja Bell and Boris Diaw? THAT ERA IS OVER, LET IT DIE!

GrantHill · Post #199 » by **GrantHill** » Tue May 8, 2012 7:21 pm

It's not about bringing back old players, it's about bringing in a guy who can defend most of the other shooting guards in the league while giving our bench a huge boost.

If we can't sign a good free agent at the two this summer (Mayo, Gordon...) he wuld be a cheap option since we don't have any talent at this position.

RunDogGun · Post #200 » by **RunDogGun** » Tue May 8, 2012 7:25 pm

People were really only talking about Boris, because he was being waived, and would have been a cheap addition. It wasn't like people were wanting to trade Gortat and a first to get Boris.