How will Shane, UD and Miller's games age?

Pimpwerx · Post #1 » by **Pimpwerx** » Sun May 6, 2012 7:52 am

Mike Miller is 32 with 3 years and $18M left on his contract.
Udonis Haslem is gonna be 32 in a month, with 3 years and $13M left.
Shane Battier is gonna be 34 next season, with 2 years and $6.5M left on his contract.

How will these guys (and their associated games) age in the coming seasons? Are they gonna be bad contracts soon, or will the be viable rotation guys still?

Miller's game is shooting and rebounding. I can actually see him continuing to be a great asset for our team through the life of his contract. He'll be 35 by the end of his contract, but he doesn't need to run around much except on defense. His defense is so laughably bad already that it doesn't seem like a problem if and when he loses a step. His stroke should remain pure, and his rebounding instincts (more natural instinct than athleticism) should remain intact. I don't expect him to remain such an influential force on the defensive glass for us, but I do see him continuing to be a guy who can reliably help grab those loose balls and bring the ball up the court in a pinch.

Haslem's game seems heavily-tied to his athleticism. I say this because last summer, he didn't look himself outside of Game2 of the Chicago series. He's a hustle and effort guy. He makes his living banging with the bigs and outworking them on the glass. Offensively, he struggles with contact. If he's not hitting those set jumpshots, he's getting his points in the paint. I don't anticipate him being able to sustain that level of effort through the life of his contract. I see athletic decline really hurting his game. I love our co-captain, but I'm thinking he's more-likely to be traded before his contract is over than Miller.

Shane's game is all about defense. On offense, he's currently relying on his 3pt stroke (something he can work to improve further as his legs continue to go away) and on sheer veteran savvy to get his hook shot off. I don't think he's that important to us on offense now, so I don't see his offensive game taking much of a hit. However, by age 35, is he still gonna be able to give guys like Melo and Kobe the business? We're gonna want to keep someone around that can relieve Bron from defensive duties, so I just don't know how viable Shane will be in two years. Next season shouldn't be an issue, and if he keeps saving his legs for the playoffs, he'll be fine through the end of his contract. However, I don't know if we'll want to renew him unless he shows that he hasn't hit his decline yet.

Thoughts? Comments? I don't mean to look ahead, but just had the thought randomly cross my mind this late night. What will we look like in the coming seasons? Will Cole rise up to become our starting PG? Will Rio be able to serve out his new contract with the team that drafted him? Will Shane, Mike and UD be the important supporting cast that they are today? Those 3 are incredibly important to this team. I hope that if we have to replace any of them, that we don't skip a beat. PEACE.

fearless_995 · Post #2 » by **fearless_995** » Sun May 6, 2012 8:34 am

We might end up using the anmesty on Miller tbh. UD mostly just shoots jumpers and rebounds, but you can tell hes past his prime. He's never been the same since the foot injury. Battier is pretty washed up too

Just praying that Pittman ends up being good.

SweetTouch · Post #3 » by **SweetTouch** » Sun May 6, 2012 12:06 pm

They are all past their prime, what you see now is what you will get

UD game is based on athletiscim ? Really smh were talking about Ud who hardly ever blocks shots, the guy who takes charges. UD is 6 8 and a good rebounder, smh at the disrespect being shown

Shane will not be resigned -duh

RexBoyWonder · Post #4 » by **RexBoyWonder** » Sun May 6, 2012 12:09 pm

Sadly all 3 look like their game has already aged.

They might be somewhat decent contributors but none of them is outplaying his contract, and that's a big issue considering our cap issues.

UD looks the worst the year, the guy just fell off a cliff. he's trying but it's not there. he's not a center either.

Im really hoping Dex and Cole develop well, we really need them both for the youth, they're cheap and they could possibly fill some of our real needs.

We also really need to draft well, maybe even buy an extra pick if possible.

RhapidKid · Post #5 » by **RhapidKid** » Sun May 6, 2012 12:12 pm

I think the first person to become a liability will be UD.

GreenHat · Post #6 » by **GreenHat** » Sun May 6, 2012 2:57 pm

Haslem and Battier's shooting have been off this year but I don't think its age related.

Battier will still be able to guard the bigger guys but he'll take even more of a step back against the super quick guys (which is why we need to get a defensive guard in the mold of Avery Bradley, Delonte West or Tony Allen to help guard the fast guys)

Haslem's rebounding has gotten better as he got older but if he's this bad on offense he really shouldn't be a rotation guy. Again the shooting doesn't seem age related so we'll see how it goes next year.

Miller's defense is going to get even worse but his shooting should hold up. He was past his prime years ago and you always have to worry about injuries with him.

These guys are viable rotation guys for us because our stars make up for their deficiencies. They would not be rotation guys for the deeper teams in the league.

You asked if they will become bad contracts. Miller already is. Haslem kind of is. The thing is as they age their contracts will get better (shorter). Its not the money that is so bad, its the amount of years. They serve as a cautionary tale for why you don't give role players 5 year deals. Battier won't ever be a bad contract. He only makes 3 mil and only has 2 years left. A year from now he'll pretty much be an expiring contract. Its that extra year on Miller and Haslem that hurts.

Chosen01 · Post #7 » by **Chosen01** » Sun May 6, 2012 5:06 pm

Shows how you how good the big 3 is (Mainly Wade and LeBron) to carry the team on nightly basis when the Heat's 6th,7th and 8th men would barely make the rotation on other contenders.

I think its safe to say that Chalmers is now the 4th best player on the Heat and his extra output is key how well the Heat progress, Haslem,Battier and Miller are all past their prime and will only get worse.

Flash4thewin · Post #8 » by **Flash4thewin** » Mon May 7, 2012 12:17 am

RhapidKid wrote:I think the first person to become a liability will be UD.

UD...... no comment

Post #9 » by **DefenseWins** » Mon May 7, 2012 12:23 am

RhapidKid wrote:I think the first person to become a liability will be UD.

which is a bit sad.

I don't like Miller's contract. Add that he's injury prone makes it worse.

One thing about basketball, is that if you can shoot, no one can take that away from you. Miller and Battier have made about 1k 3's in their careers.

Battier is smart(though looked dumb today) but he has lost a step and he can't guard guys like he use to. Melo makes him look like 50.

Miller, I am iffy about this guy. One minute he looks like he belongs here, one minute he doesn't. I like his size and his ability to shoot.

But Battier and Miller are old and streaky.... they also don't provide SPARKS off the bench.

UD, I don't even know what to say. If his jumper isn't there and he gets boxed out by a real PF, he is a bit useless. He stagnates the offense, and him and Bosh don't work well together apparently, according to the numbers.

We need some young, long, defensive minded guys IMO, that are productive. Like how the Spurs got Kawhi Leonard. Or even look like Kenneth Faried. I'd take those two guys right now over Battier and UD... young energy, good defensively, and productive.

This team lacks PRODUCTIVITY from it's bench and veterans.

CablexDeadpool · Post #10 » by **CablexDeadpool** » Tue May 8, 2012 2:34 pm

Lol they already suck and already horrible contracts and a huge liability.

They are terrible.

And someone said Delonte West is a defensive guard.... :lol:

He's a scoring combo guard.

Pimpwerx · Post #11 » by **Pimpwerx** » Tue May 8, 2012 5:12 pm

^I think Delonte plays pretty good defense. Not elite, but he's a good defender.

I like Greenhat's suggestion of getting a young, defensive guard, but I wonder if Terrel Harris can be that. If he can focus fully on improving his defensive chops, maybe he can see his minutes increase.

Sounds like everyone agrees that UD will be the first one to fall off the cliff, if he hasn't already. I think all 3 would still be rotation guys on other contenders, but it's the best we got. I don't have much faith in Pittman being much more than an enforcer off the bench in this league. I hope he proves me wrong, but that's how I see it. It's so weird that he's such a badass on the court, when he's one of the nicest guys off it. PEACE.

EscapoTHB · Post #12 » by **EscapoTHB** » Tue May 8, 2012 5:54 pm

I think UD will be better next year with a full offseason and training camp. His J is broken this year, he needs to get in the gym and fix it. Once he does that his game will age fine. There's no reason he can't play as long as Juwon Howard.

Mike's main issue is going to be his injuries. But so long as he can be out there, the shooting touch should be fine.

Shane will be fine. He's a crafty guy. We're not paying him much either.

I could see Mike getting amnystied if he doesn't prove himself in this playoff run. James Jones can easily take his minutes and save Mickey some money.

I think we do need to keep Harris and Cole and keep developing those guys with Pittman and whoever we draft this year. That's going to be the future in 3 or 4 years.

Turiaf looks like he will be a contributor and a good get. We're coming together.

For the life of me I don't understand why our shooters have shot so poorly in the second half of the year. They are wide open. Knock that **** down!

If Mike or Shane can get to their career 3 pt percentages in the playoffs this year, we will be unbeatable.

indiegrind · Post #13 » by **indiegrind** » Wed May 9, 2012 1:42 pm

SweetTouch wrote:They are all past their prime, what you see now is what you will get

HIF · Post #14 » by **HIF** » Wed May 9, 2012 3:22 pm

GreenHat · Post #15 » by **GreenHat** » Fri May 11, 2012 2:02 pm

CablexDeadpool wrote:Lol they already suck and already horrible contracts and a huge liability.

They are terrible.

And someone said Delonte West is a defensive guard....

He's a scoring combo guard.

Delonte is a great defensive guard.

Maybe you only saw him early in his career? He's really good now.

Helped Dallas' Defense not fall off a cliff without Chandler

GreenHat · Post #16 » by **GreenHat** » Fri May 11, 2012 2:06 pm

Pimpwerx wrote:^I think Delonte plays pretty good defense. Not elite, but he's a good defender.

I like Greenhat's suggestion of getting a young, defensive guard, but I wonder if Terrel Harris can be that. If he can focus fully on improving his defensive chops, maybe he can see his minutes increase.

Sounds like everyone agrees that UD will be the first one to fall off the cliff, if he hasn't already. I think all 3 would still be rotation guys on other contenders, but it's the best we got. I don't have much faith in Pittman being much more than an enforcer off the bench in this league. I hope he proves me wrong, but that's how I see it. It's so weird that he's such a badass on the court, when he's one of the nicest guys off it. PEACE.

Harris COULD be that, but you don't want to have to count on that.

It's like Cole COULD be a good backup PG but you don't want to put all your eggs in a shaky basket.

A guy who can guard quick, small guards (Lebron can't for a whole game) would be a great addition, especially since almost all of the good teams have one.

HIF · Post #17 » by **HIF** » Fri May 11, 2012 3:24 pm

GreenHat wrote:
CablexDeadpool wrote:Lol they already suck and already horrible contracts and a huge liability.

They are terrible.

And someone said Delonte West is a defensive guard....

He's a scoring combo guard.

Delonte is a great defensive guard.

Maybe you only saw him early in his career? He's really good now.

Helped Dallas' Defense not fall off a cliff without Chandler

Elite?

HIF · Post #18 » by **HIF** » Fri May 11, 2012 3:27 pm

GreenHat wrote:
Pimpwerx wrote:^I think Delonte plays pretty good defense. Not elite, but he's a good defender.

I like Greenhat's suggestion of getting a young, defensive guard, but I wonder if Terrel Harris can be that. If he can focus fully on improving his defensive chops, maybe he can see his minutes increase.

Sounds like everyone agrees that UD will be the first one to fall off the cliff, if he hasn't already. I think all 3 would still be rotation guys on other contenders, but it's the best we got. I don't have much faith in Pittman being much more than an enforcer off the bench in this league. I hope he proves me wrong, but that's how I see it. It's so weird that he's such a badass on the court, when he's one of the nicest guys off it. PEACE.

Harris COULD be that, but you don't want to have to count on that.

It's like Cole COULD be a good backup PG but you don't want to put all your eggs in a shaky basket.

A guy who can guard quick, small guards (Lebron can't for a whole game) would be a great addition, especially since almost all of the good teams have one.

An all-world beater would be good too. but management don't have the luxury to pick these players in hindsight like you do.

Get off the fence and state clearly the one player your putting your money on.

GreenHat · Post #19 » by **GreenHat** » Sat May 12, 2012 1:50 pm

HIF wrote:
GreenHat wrote:
CablexDeadpool wrote:Lol they already suck and already horrible contracts and a huge liability.

They are terrible.

And someone said Delonte West is a defensive guard....

He's a scoring combo guard.

Delonte is a great defensive guard.

Maybe you only saw him early in his career? He's really good now.

Helped Dallas' Defense not fall off a cliff without Chandler

Elite?

Delonte actually is an elite defensive guard. He's literally crazy and very limited on offense but he's been sick the last two year on defense.

I know facts hold very little value to you and numbers confuse you but Dallas allowed almost 4 points less per 48 minutes when Delonte was on the floor over more than a thousand minutes. That's a huge impact for a backup wing to have when the starter isn't horrible. The year before that he played less than 500 minutes for Boston but the year before that he was 3 points less in 1500 minutes for Cleveland and the year before that he was 7 points less in 2100 minutes. There is clearly a pattern of Delonte being a great defender across a mix of teammates. The year before that he was 3 points less but in only 800 minutes.

He's not the IDEAL player that Diaw is of course but yeah he's a great defensive guard.

GreenHat · Post #20 » by **GreenHat** » Sat May 12, 2012 2:05 pm

HIF wrote:
GreenHat wrote:
Pimpwerx wrote:^I think Delonte plays pretty good defense. Not elite, but he's a good defender.

I like Greenhat's suggestion of getting a young, defensive guard, but I wonder if Terrel Harris can be that. If he can focus fully on improving his defensive chops, maybe he can see his minutes increase.

Sounds like everyone agrees that UD will be the first one to fall off the cliff, if he hasn't already. I think all 3 would still be rotation guys on other contenders, but it's the best we got. I don't have much faith in Pittman being much more than an enforcer off the bench in this league. I hope he proves me wrong, but that's how I see it. It's so weird that he's such a badass on the court, when he's one of the nicest guys off it. PEACE.

Harris COULD be that, but you don't want to have to count on that.

It's like Cole COULD be a good backup PG but you don't want to put all your eggs in a shaky basket.

A guy who can guard quick, small guards (Lebron can't for a whole game) would be a great addition, especially since almost all of the good teams have one.

An all-world beater would be good too. but management don't have the luxury to pick these players in hindsight like you do.

Get off the fence and state clearly the one player your putting your money on.

You are comparing a cheap guard who can guard quick guards to world beaters? I guess to someone who thinks an out of shape 6-8 guy would be the IDEAL center for this team a cheap defensive guard is a world beater.

And I'm not picking anyone in hindsight. I have mentioned Tony Allen and Delonte West before as guards who would be great at guarding smaller guards. Allen got a decent contract (still less than a third of the money that Miller did in the same year) but Delonte has been on two minimum contracts. I said at the time that obviously if the Lebron's mom rumors are true we can't get him but he would be a great cheap addition. It seems those rumors are not true which the team could have ascertained in the preliminary discussions.

I haven't looked at the free agents yet since the playoffs are kind of going on. Delonte will be a free agent again next year and IF and only IF there is absolutely no truth to the rumors he would be one of the defensive guards I would look for. He's coming off two minimum contracts so he shouldn't be too expensive.

But again I haven't looked through the free agents yet.