Nick Young traded to Clippers/McGee to Denver/Nene to DC

[fugop]

I'm happy for Javale. He always seemed like a decent guy, just frustrating to watch as a fan. If he gets it together, I won't have any seller's remorse.

The problem with our team the last few years wasn't that we had bad people, or even that the players were intrinsically, immutably, knuckleheads (despite the fact that I've insinuated that plenty in the past).

The problem was that we were beyond the tipping point, too many immature, inexperienced players with inadequate counterweight. We couldn't improve without improving the maturity balance sheet, and we needed to adjust both sides of the ledger.

[tontoz]

I For the majority of posters on the board who've said that McGee could never contribute for a winning team, that he's too stupid and would rot on the bench in the playoffs. Eat your crow and take it like a man!

Feel free to post the quotes you are referencing here. Since the "majority" of the board were making these comments you shouldn't have trouble finding them.

[verbal8]

So question could the wizards theoretically attempt to try and sign mcgee or nick young if they so chose to? Don't see it happen from both ends but just curious what rules apply

I don't see any way the Wizards sign McGee. They seem to be pretty set at the 4 and 5. However I could a scenario where Nick Young comes back. If he is looking at 2 year deals, Washington might be an appealing option because he would likely be the starter. It is likely a moot point, because I think some team sells themselves on his scoring and gives him a long term deal.

[Dat2U]

I For the majority of posters on the board who've said that McGee could never contribute for a winning team, that he's too stupid and would rot on the bench in the playoffs. Eat your crow and take it like a man!

Feel free to post the quotes you are referencing here. Since the "majority" of the board were making these comments you shouldn't have trouble finding them.

Please, I have a life. I'm not chasing down quotes from numerous threads. The ones who made similar comments know who they are. If you want to play "prove it or I won't acknowledge it" game be my guest but Javale's intelligence, ability to contribute to a winning team (not just start for one) and future likelyhood of being glued to the bench in Denver has been a consistent ongoing debate in many threads.

[closg00]

Dat,

I don't know of too many people on this board that said that McGee could not contribute to a winning team or that he would rot on the bench. However, many people have said that McGee is not likely a starting quality player on a winning team and worth 10+ million a year. I was one of them. And, two good playoff games are not going to change my mind. Let's see him do it consistently over a whole season and then I'll think about eating crow.

And as I stated in my post, Javale's performance isn't a referendum on the trade. But it IMO should knock off some of the ridiculous comments that have been posted. And not every poster is as level headed as you are. I certainly understand your concerns and had them myself. My position is moreso against the pure outright hate I've seen in the months after the trade and those that try to belittle an overall terrific performance by Javale in the playoffs thus far.

+1

[DCZards]

Feel free to post the quotes you are referencing here. Since the "majority" of the board were making these comments you shouldn't have trouble finding them.

Truth is very few posters were calling Javale stupid or saying he'd never contribute to a winning team.

[tontoz]

I For the majority of posters on the board who've said that McGee could never contribute for a winning team, that he's too stupid and would rot on the bench in the playoffs. Eat your crow and take it like a man!

Feel free to post the quotes you are referencing here. Since the "majority" of the board were making these comments you shouldn't have trouble finding them.

Please, I have a life. I'm not chasing down quotes from numerous threads. The ones who made similar comments know who they are. If you want to play "prove it or I won't acknowledge it" game be my guest but Javale's intelligence, ability to contribute to a winning team (not just start for one) and future likelyhood of being glued to the bench in Denver has been a consistent ongoing debate in many threads.

Plenty of people have criticized Javales IQ and toughness but he isn't playing behind Dwight Howard out there. The comment about being "glued to the bench in Denver" in the future is ridiculous. If they resign him then they surely will play him. They aren't going to sign him to a big contract to play behind Koufos and Mozgov. They will either let him go or resign him and start him.

If Kwame and Darko can land starting gigs after their rookie deals it isn't hard to figure that a 7 footer with a PER of 19 will land in the rotation somewhere.

When Mcgee was here he showed a much improved jump hook, an ever improving drop step and improved rebounding ability. That doesnt change the fact that he is soft with a low IQ. Your strawman arguments aren't going to change that.

[tontoz]

Feel free to post the quotes you are referencing here. Since the "majority" of the board were making these comments you shouldn't have trouble finding them.

Truth is very few posters were calling Javale stupid or saying he'd never contribute to a winning team.

It is easier to make strawman arguments than it is to make coherent points. It is also weak to claim someone said something without backing it up.

If i said you claimed McGee would be an All-Star within two years i am sure your response would be "quote please".

If you can't back up an accusation then don't make it.

[theboomking]

And as I stated in my post, Javale's performance isn't a referendum on the trade. But it IMO should knock off some of the ridiculous comments that have been posted. And not every poster is as level headed as you are. I certainly understand your concerns and had them myself. My position is moreso against the pure outright hate I've seen in the months after the trade and those that try to belittle an overall terrific performance by Javale in the playoffs thus far.

It hasn't been a "terrific performance". Vale has had 2 good games out of 5. The other 3 games, McGee has been terrible. I'm not sure that is the kind of performance that warrants a huge contract. McGee is averaging 10 points a game in 25 minutes on .500 shooting. Wow. Totally awesome.

I still am a McGee hater, for the same reason I am a Haynesworth hater. McGee could have been awesome in Washington, but didn't put in the work to make himself great. Haynesworth was an A-hole. McGee just completely lacks self awareness. The McGee quote earlier in the thread about spending the summer, "working on my outside shooting", says it all. I think McGee may well become a very good offensive player. He was already developing a nice hook shot here. JaVale will probably post misleadingly good rebounding numbers at some point.

Vale will never be a good defensive player unless he recognizes that he is a liability there and works at making it better. I have no more faith in McGee becoming a very good defender than I do that an alcoholic who doesn't recognize his problem, will become sober. It isn't going to happen.


McGee will be just good enough to get enormously overpaid.

[Dat2U]

Feel free to post the quotes you are referencing here. Since the "majority" of the board were making these comments you shouldn't have trouble finding them.

Truth is very few posters were calling Javale stupid or saying he'd never contribute to a winning team.

It is easier to make strawman arguments than it is to make coherent points. It is also weak to claim someone said something without backing it up.

If i said you claimed McGee would be an All-Star within two years i am sure your response would be "quote please".

If you can't back up an accusation then don't make it.

OMG. You love to play this semantics bull with every pathetic argument you have. I'm not going there with you because you don't know when to quit and it's a complete waste of time.

Did I specifically call anyone out? Did I mention you by name? Did I directly quote you? No. If I did, I would back that up, but I didn't.

I have no reason to make crap up or play the strawman game. I know what I've read, not just the last few days but ever since Javale got dealt. And I'm not looking back through hundreds of posts looking for a quote. If you want to believe no one said what I posted, then fine. I'm not looking for you or anyone else's confirmation or approval.

[dandridge 10]

Dat, you probably didn't mean to say it, but I think people are responding to your previous post negatively because you said "the majority" of posters on this board took the position that McGee couldn't contribute to a winning team or would rot on the bench. I'm sure there were some posters that took that position, but certainly not the majority on this board. Anyway, it really doesn't matter....I think its clear from your responses that you were directing your comment to those persons that took that stance.

Ultimately, I really don't care if McGee does well or not. I don't think he was going to play well here and I think the Wiz are better off without him at this stage of the rebuild.

[tontoz]

[Did I specifically call anyone out? Did I mention you by name? Did I directly quote you? No. If I did, I would back that up, but I didn't.

I have no reason to make crap up or play the strawman game. I know what I've read, not just the last few days but ever since Javale got dealt. And I'm not looking back through hundreds of posts looking for a quote. If you want to believe no one said what I posted, then fine. I'm not looking for you or anyone else's confirmation or approval.

No you didn't name me specifically you said the majority of the board which is nonsense, especially since you couldn't provide even one quote. You could have easily run a google search in the time it took to make that post.

Mcgee has gotten plenty of criticism but your comments are exaggerated. McGee has had 2 good games out of 5 while Bynum is averaging 18 ppg shooting 60% for the series. That hardly qualifies as "terrific". Again, an exaggeration. I guess you feel the need to defend your initial stance against the trade even though it has worked out very well, at least so far.

As a side note McGee's horrible pnr defense isn't going to be as much of a problem against the Lakers. They aren't going to run a bunch of high pick and rolls with Bynum who isn't exactly known for his mobility. When they aren't posting their bigs Kobe is dominating the ball.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I know the McGee hate is off the charts on this board, but to ignore the fact that McGee stepped up and played well on a big time stage is a bit insincere.

Were talking about the playoffs. Against arguably the biggest & best frontline in the league in the Lakers and clearly the best big man in basketball outside of an injured Dwight Howard in Andrew Bynum and Javale McGee is holding his own and even excelling.

Yet I'm reading posts about "it's the same McGee" and "we've always seen signs of this" along with posts of impending free agency doom that will come over the team that signs him.

This is the playoffs against elite competition. This isn't some regular season game at Golden State with nothing on the line. This isn't against the Miami Heat backups.

For the majority of posters on the board who've said that McGee could never contribute for a winning team, that he's too stupid and would rot on the bench in the playoffs. Eat your crow and take it like a man!

As far as the Nene/McGee trade. McGee's performance isn't a referendum on the trade. It's just too early tell. Just like it was too early to tell if Nene is the right acquistion because we have no idea if he'll stay healthy or perform at a high level for most of his contract. And the only ones that assign value to 6 meaningless wins against inferior competition at the end of the season is the Wizards & their fans.

If anything, McGee's recent performance should raise the question of the environment & culture of the Wizards locker room where it gets to a point that we have to shed valuable young talent just to it make the locker room less toxic. Contrary to popular opinion, I don't believe McGee to be a knucklehead. Just a young kid that needed guidance and maybe a bit of micromanagement. Maybe it got to a point where McGee was not going to succeed here becaus of his history here however that's more of damning indictment on the front office here for allowing a culture of unaccountability to fester and a lack of discipline to be acceptible. It's almost like how EG allowed the Arenas era to go unchecked (cough Butler too, cough). The front office seems to have no problem watching the ship sink right in front of them until desperation sets in (see prior to Nene deal).

This post covers the entire spectrum of trade issues well, Dat. That first bold paragraph exposes the sentiment of most who didn't think McGee capable of such an effort.

I pose this question: What happens when McGee is physically stronger and more mature just from being in the league a long time, and now, with a better organization? Another question: just how much will Javale get paid? Looks like the price is going up all of a sudden.

I agree with DCZ, right now, the deal is looking pretty good for Washington, Denver, and the LA Clippers. My over/under on the deal from Washington's standpoint is that if Nene plays 70 games the next 2 seasons at 100%, the culture change will have been worth it--no matter how well Javale does--because it wouldn't have happened here.

--I continue to think McGee is going to play extremely well in the future.

--My guess is the McGee will probably take slightly less to stay in Denver, but a lot depends on the last home game and outcome of the Lakers series. I believe he's going to stay where he feels loved and where the team and coach has a history of success. Denver's FO has right of first refusal, and the odds are he stays put.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

One reason I have liked McGee is the media has generally tried to do a number on him. This article is entitled "McGee Throws Away Game Ball", when in fact he threw the ball to him mother.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball- ... 24376.html

Watch the post game video and note the crappy article, nothing new for Yahoo contributors, that surmises Javale was weird or finally doing well in Denver. All this after he destroyed the Lakers in a close out game.

Haters want to hate. That writer is a hater.

[hands11]

Both Javale and NY are having a major impact in the playoffs. Javale tonight totally outplayed Bynum.
Both he and young are guys that if you put them around smart players it minimizes their bone head potential.

Apart from them there's a slew of former Wizards. Arenas, Butler, Foye, Miller,

But none of the players are starting. McGee had a great game last night. He had a good game in the other Nuggets win(game 3), one fair game(5/9 while Bynum went off) and 2 games that were pretty disappointing. That doesn't seem too different from his Wizards career. Nick Young is also looking pretty similar. It is a lot easier to hide a players weaknesses when they are coming off the bench, than when they are a key starter(as Young and McGee were with the Wizards).

Exactly. Both McGee and Nick had great games here. That is nothing new. But with both now coming off the bench, there roles have been limited. Basically McGee is asked to rebounds, block shots and cut to the hoop. I don't see them running plays for him her he posts for a hook shot. I saw one last game.

Both players have talent. We know that. The problem was timing more then anything. Right now they need to be finishing pieces, not core pieces. The Wizards are looking for core pieces.

It was a good trade for all teams involves and I will cheer them both on where they are.

[tontoz]

“It was a whole totally different team and we started playing totally different, to be honest. No disrespect to any guys we had before, but everything changed. We were more serious in the locker room, more serious on the court, unselfish play, everybody played together and just wanted to win.”

“For some guys, it was contract year, wasn’t serious with the basketball as I think they should’ve been and with them being traded to veteran teams, it helped them,” John Wall said. “We didn’t have any veterans to get on them"

"He’s a had a tough cast down there. I don’t want to put anybody down but he’s not playing with the smartest guys in the world,” New Jersey Nets all-star guard Deron Williams said about Wall. “That’s tough, man. That’s tough. They’re not smart. I’ve been watching. JaVale McGee was on the Not So Top 10, like, 50 times this year.”

“At times it was tough because you had guys like Nick and JaVale; they wanted the ball a lot and took a lot of shots. It’s kind of tough to find what kind of team it was with them,” John Wall said, throwing his support behind the deal for Nene. “I think it was the right decision. We had a lot of jokes and stuff going around the locker room, but [now] the energy is more serious, everybody is being on time, taking things more serious, being professional about everything. We just interacting more as a team.”

I guess Wall and Deron are just haters.

[Induveca]

Tontoz, give it up.....the man is making valid points you're rambling on about nothing and disrupting my morning read. Frustrating.

[tontoz]

Tontoz, give it up.....the man is making valid points you're rambling on about nothing and disrupting my morning read. Frustrating.

Please point out these valid points. I must have missed them. Or maybe they are just figments of your imagination.

Is telling the majority of the board to eat crow over alleged comments which he can't show they made a legit point?

[lukekarts]

I'm not a Wizards fan but foolishly posted about 20 pages back and this has kept popping up in 'view your posts'...

Anyway, those ^ quotes in tontoz' post pretty much summarise the benefits of the trade to Washington. McGee will have his 'woah' moments - as evidenced on the general discussion board - but they're in between woeful performances.

People need to look past blocks = good defence and no. of rebounds = good rebounder. All evidence suggest McGee is a bad defender and teams rebound worse when he's on the court (coming down to simple things like boxing out etc).

He still has potential just due to his physical tools but still has a long way to go and the precedent of dumb athletic players doesn't present the most compelling argument.

With Nene what you get is the complete opposite - moderate physical tools but with good basketball fundamentals. Despite the direct stat comparison between the two, the play on court clearly shifted substantially after the trade and that in itself is enough evidence it was the right move to make.

[closg00]

For a team that lost two star-level players in Melo and Nene, Denver has already exceeded expectations and have a bright outlook.