Should DC start against Miami?

[tocooks]

Would you consider starting Collison? Or Hill and Collison ala last years finals when the Mavs went with Kidd and barea? That lineup caused the Heat fits and ultimately led to their demise.

I feel it has to at least be an option for Vogel as DC has been playing well lately, has familiarity with the starting group, was instrumental in our only victory over Miami. Oh, and of course Vogels undying love for DC.

[Pacersike]

No.

He couldn't cope with the pressure of being the starting PG and him trying to get an offense running hurt the rest of his game too much. You can always shift Hill to the 2 if Collison is playing like he was in that 1 game.

[Miller4ever]

Continuity is important right now. Collison will get more minutes if he's doing well, but Hill is the one with the experience.

[Scoot McGroot]

Continuity is important right now. Collison will get more minutes if he's doing well, but Hill is the one with the experience.

Agreed. Either way, having both George Hill and Paul George on the court against Miami will be necessary defensively.

[Wizop]

assuming LBJ plays some 4, I think we'd counter with Danny at 4, Paul at 3, and both DC and GH in the backcourt. I hope we figure this out before game one starts and not after Miami goes on a run when we haven't matched up.

[jowglenn]

How do you beat a team like the Miami Heat?

They have guys like Wade, James, and we don't. We have guys like Bosh, actually. We're sort of a team of boshes in many ways. A bunch of guys who clearly cannot be "THE GUY" on a NBA franchise. Bosh compensates for this up by playing with 2 superstars. And he submits his 18 and 8 and plays his ass off.

That's like, our whole team. None of these guys is a superstar. Let's be honest, none of our guys is even a star, period.

We have a team of 2 veteran semi-stars in granger and west, guys who made a few all-star teams but whose name would not be recognized by the casual consumer outside of the markets they have played in. These guys are pros' pros. They earn their money.

We've got hibbert, a center who is 7'2", averaging a 13/9/2/2 and forcing teams to play differently than they would against most opponents, both on defense and offense. Turns in a steady defensive presence, some reliable hooks, a few blocks. Can you believe he was drafted 17th???

Paul George, complete x factor variable. Kid's got the defensive touch, you know? Who's to say it won't happen?

Darren Collison and George Hill make a nice duo, lot of options there.

Bench guys like Barbosa, Hans, Amundson all capable of big time play.

The Heat got lebron, wade, and bosh. Then they got what? What they got exactly? Can you tell me?

Old washed up guys. Haslem, Battier, Miller. All very good in their day, and certainly not without veteran savvy and skill, but all washed up. Mario Chalmers, one of the few starting point guards in the league who is definitively worse than darren collison. Finally Joel Anthony, who shouldn't even be on any respectable NBA team's playoff roster.

People forget that james wade and bosh only play 120 minutes combined on a normal night. That leaves another 120 minutes that need to be divided up among chalmers, haslem, battier, miller, and chalmers.

Can the Pacers best 120 minute combination (granger, west, hibbert) beat 120 minutes of james, wade and bosh? No. Just no. In a 3-on-3 game, this series (hell, the championship) would already be over and the Heat would win every time.

But can our other 120 minutes beat their other 120 minutes? It would be a slaughter. Collison, Hill, Barbosa, George, Hansbrough, Amundson versus Chalmers, Miller, Battier, Haslem, and Anthony. There is a pretty huge talent gap here people.

There's 5 players on the court at any given time, and I swear, so help me god, that (excluding the best 3 guys on both teams) any 2 of the pacers players on the court at any given moment will be and play better than 2 of the Heat players at any moment in the game. Think about it, and don't forget it. Whoever the Heat has on the court as their 4th and 5th guy, our 4th guy and 5th guy are better. I'll take Barbosa and Amundson over Chalmers and mike miller any day. I'll take Paul George and hansbrough over battier and haslem. I'll take Collison and freaking fes over chalmers and joel anthony.


The Pacers have a better opportunity to beat the Heat than almost any other team in this whole league and universe. You can't "shut down" the pacers because there is no on/off switch. There's no one or two guys who you can target and focus all your defense on.

Here is how the Pacers beat the Heat:

Run offense through Roy Hibbert a lot. Get West involved in pick and rolls. Try to make it an ugly game. Start racking up fouls early on both ends. Control the offensive rebounds, so the Heat can't fast break as much. Get a big scoring game from your point guards. Rely on George and Granger to give utter exhaustful effort on defense to the point that their offensive games will not be so good. Let Granger be a hang-out-for-corner-3 guy more in this series on offense, so he can be a defender.

It's really that simple.


EDIT: Got slightly off track there. To answer OP's question of whether DC should start:

Doesn't Matter. Pacers in 7.

[Wizop]

You beat the Heat the same way Butler got to the final game two years in a row: you play great team defense and move the ball on offense. ever go back and watch that final game where IU beat Syracuse for a championship? it's amazing. no one on the IU team could make it in the NBA while Syracuse had big name players. the talent differential wasn't evident at the time but it sure is with hindsight and yet IU won.

and tacking on your analysis, not only will 2 of our 5 players be better at all times, Hibbert/West are probably just as good as Bosh. it might take what a college team would call a junk defense but if we can keep the lane clogged and avoid turn overs leading to fast breaks, I don't think they can beat us from outside. so we cross our fingers and hope the zebras give us an even break. yes, I know ...

[Miller4ever]

There's a lot of ifs that have to be checked for us to win the series. Every game gets harder from here on out, but the good news is we seem to be getting better.

[daschysta]

At the very least he needs heavy minutes and frank needs to have the offense based around dc attacking the basket while he's in, instead of passively feeding the post, last game v miami, when we blew them out dc was the catalyst too.

[Boneman2]

I think we can only play one or the other, in regards to Collison or Hill, like Scoot mentioned, for defensive purposes.

DC should come off the bench and if he is fresher late in games because of it, then it's a good thing.

I'd use the same tactic we employed to close out the season, play the hot hand between Hill and DC.

Both of them playing well together is not likely to happen after Wade debos one of them.

[FAH1223]

Charles Barkley thinks you guys can win if it goes to a Game 6 on your court and ya'll got a chance to clinch.

[Gremz]

They'll both get minutes, but Hill must start. He's been a very good option when needed so far, and if it ain't broke......

[PR07]

No, there's no need to mess up a good thing. The Pacers have been winning with Hill as the starter, and Collison will get big minutes in this series one way or another if he's playing well.

[JONEAL]

Go to the basket
and feed our bigs a lot
limit the turn overs
i think we should stay with what we have been doing
DC off the bench
it shouldn't matter if he starts
just play well and he will get the minutes.

[Solid]

Really their biggest advantage on us is their ability to get to the line.
The fouls we will absorb if we are aggressive, and the cheap stuff we will give up if we don't.

I think matching such offensive aggression will be important for us

The refs WILL put them on the line.
I want Paul George (for example) to see how effective that is and to understand that he can grow right into that role.
If Wade goes to the line in a tight game on some weak azz foul - then some one needs to keep the refs honest and make them make a similar call on our end.

We have some fouls to give. They...not so much.

Or to put it the other way -
If we settle for pitting our perimeter game against their penetration game we're toast.

[nashill]

Good to know that your coach is thinking about using one defense. I think it will work.

[Nuntius]

Continuity is important right now.

Yup.

Besides, DC off the bench can wear them down.