Nick Young traded to Clippers/McGee to Denver/Nene to DC

[Nivek]

For a team that lost two star-level players in Melo and Nene, Denver has already exceeded expectations and have a bright outlook.

I think it's a stretch to describe either of those guys as "star-level." Carmelo is more of a media/fan star than an on-court star. Nene has been a good player who had a nice career, but also not a "star" in the sense of being a dominating player. Denver's done a pretty good job of picking up guys who were underrated/overlooked by other teams -- Lawson, Faried, Miller, Afflalo come instantly to mind. Gallinari might fall into that category as well.

Denver also did well cashing in on the overrating of Carmelo. They also did a nice job of off-loading a long-term contract mistake they made when they signed Nene and getting back McGee -- a guy where anyone could see the ability, but with the question of whether he'd ever put it together in a way that was useful to a team.

Denver has exceeded media/pundit/fan expectations, but that may be in large part because those expectations were shaped by overrating the Lakers in general, and Kobe in particular. To illustrate, check out basketball-reference's SRS, which combines scoring margin with strength of schedule:

1. CHI -- 7.43
2. SAS -- 7.28
3. OKC -- 6.44
4. MIA -- 5.72
5. PHI -- 3.59
6. DEN -- 3.16
7. LAC -- 2.82
8. ATL -- 2.67
9. IND -- 2.60
10. MEM -- 2.43
11. NYK -- 2.39
12. BOS -- 2.26
13. LAL -- 1.96

SRS suggests that even considering home court advantage to the Lakers, the series should have been viewed as being extremely close and probably with Denver as slight favorites. Denver's about where they should have been expected to be -- perhaps even under-performed a bit.

[cdouglas]

Stars are created during the Playoffs.

http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_20 ... Nuggets%29

[tontoz]

Jerome James averaged 19/10 in a playoff series for the Sonics before he became a free agent.

While ordering my Jerome James jersey online last night -- size XXL, just like the ludicrous free-agent contract he'll no doubt sign in the offseason -- I got to thinking about his predecessors, men like Troy Hudson, Luke Walton, Mario Elie and Matt Maloney. They belong to that rarest of NBA breeds, the mediocre player who becomes a star, or at least a catalyst, in the postseason.

Maybe it is just the magical effect of the postseason. James is the most obvious example, but there are others who've become insta-heroes. Etan Thomas had 20 and 9 the other night for the Wizards; Andres Nocioni went for 25 and 18 in Game 1 for the Bulls; Ryan Bowen, who might have a hard time holding court at the local Y this weekend, played 31 minutes in Game 1 against Dallas in his newfound role as Dirk-irker. Nazr Mohammed looked more like Tim Duncan than Duncan did early in the Spurs series and Juan Dixon's 35-point display Monday night was positively Hudson-esque.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/w ... mes/1.html

[Nivek]

Good find, tontoz. That Jerome James thing is interesting on several levels. First, because the Sonics stat consultant that year was Dean Oliver, and Dean recommended the strategy they employed in the first round, which transmogrified James into a "star." Second, that Isiah and the Knicks, in their zeal to shower money on this "star," apparently didn't even bother to look at the next playoff series that year.

Against Sacramento, James averaged 19.2 points and 10.5 rebounds per 36 minutes, and he did it with an offensive rating of about 123. So he was terrific.

Against the Spurs he averaged 12.6 points and 7.0 rebounds per 36 on an offensive rating of 100.

In my own PER-like rating system he went from performing at the level someone like Bynum, Kevin Love or Dwight Howard might sustain over a full season to the level of someone like Louis Admunson, Luke Walton or JJ Hickson. Seriously, all the Knicks had to do was look at the next series for all the red flags they could want.

[closg00]

For a team that lost two star-level players in Melo and Nene, Denver has already exceeded expectations and have a bright outlook.

I think it's a stretch to describe either of those guys as "star-level." Carmelo is more of a media/fan star than an on-court star. Nene has been a good player who had a nice career, but also not a "star" in the sense of being a dominating player. Denver's done a pretty good job of picking up guys who were underrated/overlooked by other teams -- Lawson, Faried, Miller, Afflalo come instantly to mind. Gallinari might fall into that category as well.

Denver also did well cashing in on the overrating of Carmelo. They also did a nice job of off-loading a long-term contract mistake they made when they signed Nene and getting back McGee -- a guy where anyone could see the ability, but with the question of whether he'd ever put it together in a way that was useful to a team.

Denver has exceeded media/pundit/fan expectations, but that may be in large part because those expectations were shaped by overrating the Lakers in general, and Kobe in particular. To illustrate, check out basketball-reference's SRS, which combines scoring margin with strength of schedule:

1. CHI -- 7.43
2. SAS -- 7.28
3. OKC -- 6.44
4. MIA -- 5.72
5. PHI -- 3.59
6. DEN -- 3.16
7. LAC -- 2.82
8. ATL -- 2.67
9. IND -- 2.60
10. MEM -- 2.43
11. NYK -- 2.39
12. BOS -- 2.26
13. LAL -- 1.96

SRS suggests that even considering home court advantage to the Lakers, the series should have been viewed as being extremely close and probably with Denver as slight favorites. Denver's about where they should have been expected to be -- perhaps even under-performed a bit.

I thought I had protected myself by using "star-level", damn!

[Nivek]

closg -- That rant above was inspired by your post, but not really directed at you. It's aimed more at the Mike & Mike's of the world and the "analysts" that dominate the NBA discussion. What passes for analysis is awful. It's a disservice to the league, and a disservice to fans. When I'm driving my kids around in the morning and we're listening to Mike & Mike (or Czaban or the Junkies), and the topic turns to the NBA -- I can rarely make it more than a minute before I turn down the sound and explain why what the guys on the radio just said was manure.

Laron Profit is okay. I sometimes make it through a whole segment without needing to correct glaring inaccuracies.

[tontoz]

Good find, tontoz. That Jerome James thing is interesting on several levels. First, because the Sonics stat consultant that year was Dean Oliver, and Dean recommended the strategy they employed in the first round, which transmogrified James into a "star." Second, that Isiah and the Knicks, in their zeal to shower money on this "star," apparently didn't even bother to look at the next playoff series that year.

Against Sacramento, James averaged 19.2 points and 10.5 rebounds per 36 minutes, and he did it with an offensive rating of about 123. So he was terrific.

Against the Spurs he averaged 12.6 points and 7.0 rebounds per 36 on an offensive rating of 100.

In my own PER-like rating system he went from performing at the level someone like Bynum, Kevin Love or Dwight Howard might sustain over a full season to the level of someone like Louis Admunson, Luke Walton or JJ Hickson. Seriously, all the Knicks had to do was look at the next series for all the red flags they could want.

I think Isiah was colorblind, at least when wearing his GM hat.

After that first round series i remember Jerome putting on a trash bag when he was interviewed after the game. He was referencing a comment some coach had made about him. The coach was right.

I can rarely make it more than a minute before I turn down the sound and explain why what the guys on the radio just said was manure

Generally i don't think sports radio guys know much about the NBA. Football, baseball, even college basketball they seem to know well. the NBA... not so much. I noticed the same thing in Atlanta. I would have to turn it off because it was such a joke.

[DCZards]

I thought I had protected myself by using "star-level", damn!

Well, you did protect yourself as far as Melo is concerned. It's safe to call him a star. I think most NBA insiders, including GMs, coaches, scouts and other players, would agree with that assessment.

[Nivek]

DCZards -- I think it's tough to call Carmelo a "star" in part because he's so tough to build around. You'd probably need to assemble a roster sorta like the Sixers did with Iverson and see how far you can go. He's a soloist who hasn't shown much inclination to blend his talents with teammates for the good of the team. He has talent, but I think he's going to continue to find playoff disappointment until he either gets to a team that will cater to his preferred style of play (isos for himself) or he changes the way he thinks about the game and learns how to blend his talents into a team concept.

It would actually be kind of a fun team to GM in a weird kinda way. If you have Carmelo, who would you choose to play with him. Tyson Chandler seems like an ideal center -- good defense, good offensive rebounding, low usage. At PF, maybe a guy like Ryan Anderson. Stretch 4 who rebounds well (especially on the offensive glass), doesn't need the ball on offense, does a nice job playing off others. Low ego. At SG...hmm...maybe a guy like Brandon Rush or Danny Green -- a 3&D type. At PG...hmm...caretaker, someone with size and defense who doesn't need the ball a lot. Jason Kidd in his dotage wouldn't be bad. Maybe Jordan Farmar? Chris Duhon?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

cdouglas, thanks for posting this article below!

Stars are created during the Playoffs.

http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_20 ... Nuggets%29

Some noteworthy quotes:

Going into the playoffs, not many folks saw McGee being a key factor coming off the bench. But he's become a major factor.

In the Nuggets' Game 3 victory, he had 16 points and 15 boards. And, with Denver facing elimination Tuesday, holy moly, McGee was a game-changer, outplaying all-star big men Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol with his unorthodox game of hook shots, finger rolls, up-and-under moves and dunks off alley-oop passes from Andre Miller.

"He's really blossoming in this series," the Lakers' Kobe Bryant said. "He seems to be coming into his own. He's showing a lot of versatility and skill around the basket. Defensively as well, he's changing shots."

McGee's sudden ascension has caught the eye of fans nationwide, who have made Twitter atwitter. After two mundane games in L.A. to start the series, McGee has played like an all-star in two of the past three games, reminding Nuggets assistant coach Melvin Hunt of a former player. Back in 2007, Hunt was on the Cleveland Cavaliers staff when an unknown guard named Daniel "Boobie" Gibson erupted in the conference finals against Detroit with 21 points in Game 4 and 31 points in Game 6, including 19 fourth-quarter points in the series-clinching game.

"People were saying he was coming out of nowhere," Hunt said. "That's the comparison that comes to mind right away. His shooting, rebounding the basketball ... it was special."

McGee plays basketball like the court is a trampoline. On seemingly every possession, he's leaping for either a block, rebound or dunk. He has a 7-foot-6 wingspan and, as Hunt explained, his fingers are so long that they remind him of the character Inspector Gadget saying, "Go, go Gadget fingers!"

"I don't think I've ever coached a guy like this," said Nuggets coach George Karl, who got his first NBA head coaching job in 1984. "He has the kind of moves of a 6-6 player. The guy he kind of reminds me of a little bit is (1970s star) Connie Hawkins. There's this long, unfolding one-handed stuff. He's got a long way to go to become Connie Hawkins."

Interesting to hear Karl compare Javale to a F, Connie Hawkins. I thought Larry Nance after seeing McGee play. I believe Karl will coach him up to his best potential.

Last, there's virtually no way Denver doesn't keep McGee now:

Opportunities. That was the plan when Denver acquired McGee from Washington. The Nuggets' front office knew McGee had an abundance of athleticism, but he developed bad habits playing for a poor team.

"Our intent was to get JaVale for the future, not just for three months," Nuggets executive Masai Ujiri said.

Asked Wednesday whether McGee, a restricted free agent this summer, is a player he wants to lock down for the future, Ujiri said, "One hundred percent."

[hands11]

For me, this just points out that it is how the pieces fit together.

As for Denver doing well by moving Nene for McGee, lets see how that works out when McGee signs with someone and for how much. Right now he is a relatively inexpensive energy bench player. That may be true for one more game. We will see.

As for Nene, we know what he is going to cost and have a pretty good feel for what he provides which happens to be exactly what this team needed. People mention worrying that he is overpaid. I'm not seeing that. 13M is not to much for a Nene giving what he is to this team. He is an anchor vet post player. That is well worth 13M. If McGee is going to get 10M that only makes things more clear. Nene is easily worth 3M more then McGee. Nene is already a proven starter. Now McGee can change that by playing consistently better but that is a crap shoot. We don't know that he can start on a good team. Hell, he might not ever sign with Denver.

I am happy with the trade. I like what we got. I also like that we don't have to wonder about if McGee will stay or go and for how much. Sure McGee has more upside potential and longevity but it is kind of a crap shoot as to if he reaches that potential and if he will get overpaid.

As for McGee, I hope he puts it together. He is a talented kid who is fun to watch when he is playing well.

[Spence]

Anyone who wants to give Javale McGee $50 mil guaranteed is welcome to do so. I'm just glad it won't be my favorite team.

[Dat2U]

Tontoz, give it up.....the man is making valid points you're rambling on about nothing and disrupting my morning read. Frustrating.

Please point out these valid points. I must have missed them. Or maybe they are just figments of your imagination.

Is telling the majority of the board to eat crow over alleged comments which he can't show they made a legit point?

Ok, I take back that "majority of the board" made each of those comments. It was a poorly worded post. My original points still stands although you are certainly welcome to argue the validity of the word "majority" to infinity.

Secondly, I'm not sure how Jerome James' story fits into this discussion. You won't even acknowledge that McGee is performing at a high level this series. According to you, he's had two good games out of five and has been clearly outplayed by Bynum. So I'm not sure how the cautionary tale of Jarome James playoff performance fits into your neat little narrative.

[daSwami]

Anyone who wants to give Javale McGee $50 mil guaranteed is welcome to do so. I'm just glad it won't be my favorite team.

Spence? you still lurking around these parts? cray cray.

[tontoz]

Tontoz, give it up.....the man is making valid points you're rambling on about nothing and disrupting my morning read. Frustrating.

Please point out these valid points. I must have missed them. Or maybe they are just figments of your imagination.

Is telling the majority of the board to eat crow over alleged comments which he can't show they made a legit point?

Ok, I take back that "majority of the board" made each of those comments. It was a poorly worded post. My original points still stands although you are certainly welcome to argue the validity of the word "majority" to infinity.

Secondly, I'm not sure how Jerome James' story fits into this discussion. You won't even acknowledge that McGee is performing at a high level this series. According to you, he's had two good games out of five and has been clearly outplayed by Bynum. So I'm not sure how the cautionary tale of Jarome James playoff performance fits into your neat little narrative.

McGee scored a total of 7 points in the first 2 games shooting 2-12. Was he playing at a high level in those games too? If so, please explain. Bynum scored 37 in those same 2 games shooting 17-27.

How does JJ fit into the discussion? Someone posted about heroes being made in the playoffs. JJ was a playoff hero for one series and a career zero. He was a far worse player than Mcgee but he showed out for one playoff series, got paid and disappeared. It just shows the folly of making conclusions based on such a small sample size of games.

[Dat2U]

McGee scored a total of 7 points in the first 2 games shooting 2-12. Was he playing at a high level in those games too? If so, please explain. Bynum scored 37 in those same 2 games shooting 17-27.

How does JJ fit into the discussion? Someone posted about heroes being made in the playoffs. JJ was a playoff hero for one series and a career zero. He was a far worse player than Mcgee but he showed out for one playoff series, got paid and disappeared. It just shows the folly of making conclusions based on such a small sample size of games.

I thought McGee had good energy the first two games, he just had trouble finishing against the length of Gasol & Bynum. And I'm sure some nerves existed considering it was his first playoff experience.

I'm not sure what standard you hold McGee too but it's obviously a high one. You haven't really acknowledged the situation/stage or the competition. A frontline of Bynum & Gasol is arguably one of the best in the league and Bynum (with Howard out) may arguably be the best C. So Bynum should outplay most, if not all centers in the league.

[tontoz]

I don't hold McGee to any standard. He is gone and isn't coming back. The team played MUCH better without him. That is the whole point of making trades, to make the team better.

I didn't gloat when Bynum owned him the first two games because i didn't care. The only reason i am talking about him now is because all the nonsensical overreaction to 2 games.

During the season the Lakers ranked 13th in defensive efficiency. Seraphin went 7/8 against them the last time to two teams played. Let's not pretend like they are an elite defensive team.

[eathb_au]

For a team with no All-Stars like the Nuggets, their only hope of getting anywhere in the playoffs in the future is to rely on the potential of McGee and hope he explodes in a few games or there.

As seen now, the two games he played really well in, the Nuggets won. Heck you can say that he is the only reason why the Nuggets have taken LA to 6 and not gotten swept. In a couple of playoffs games, McGee has already shown far more than anything Nene has shown when he played in the playoffs for the Nuggets. One is actually a difference maker on the court. One is just a contributor.

[Dat2U]

I don't hold McGee to any standard. He is gone and isn't coming back. The team played MUCH better without him. That is the whole point of making trades, to make the team better.

I didn't gloat when Bynum owned him the first two games because i didn't care. The only reason i am talking about him now is because all the nonsensical overreaction to 2 games.

During the season the Lakers ranked 13th in defensive efficiency. Seraphin went 7/8 against them the last time to two teams played. Let's not pretend like they are an elite defensive team.

Your something special, lol. Again, you won't even acknowledge the quality of his competition (note I specifically said the Gasol/Bynum frontline) or the depth of the situation (playoffs). And you bringing up a meaningless regular season game is a weak attempt to make what McGee did, look like nothing special.

[tontoz]

I don't hold McGee to any standard. He is gone and isn't coming back. The team played MUCH better without him. That is the whole point of making trades, to make the team better.

I didn't gloat when Bynum owned him the first two games because i didn't care. The only reason i am talking about him now is because all the nonsensical overreaction to 2 games.

During the season the Lakers ranked 13th in defensive efficiency. Seraphin went 7/8 against them the last time to two teams played. Let's not pretend like they are an elite defensive team.

Your something special, lol. Again, you won't even acknowledge the quality of his competition (note I specifically said the Gasol/Bynum frontline) or the depth of the situation (playoffs). And you bringing up a meaningless regular season game is a weak attempt to make what McGee did, look like nothing special.

What exactly was special about it? Please enlighten me. Other than his rebounding i don't see anything special. Compared to the regular season his scoring for the series is down fractionally on 4% worse shooting, which is fairly typical for anyone in the playoffs. Most guys shoot a little worse in the playoffs.

Except for Bynum lol.

For the season the Lakers were 18th in opponent points in the paint per game, actually ranking behind the Wizards.


http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/op ... t-per-game