Nick Young traded to Clippers/McGee to Denver/Nene to DC

[queridiculo]

Your something special, lol. Again, you won't even acknowledge the quality of his competition (note I specifically said the Gasol/Bynum frontline) or the depth of the situation (playoffs). And you bringing up a meaningless regular season game is a weak attempt to make what McGee did, look like nothing special.

Not sure why I'm jumping to tontoz defense here, but what he's doing is a lot closer to putting his performance in perspective rather than attempting to diminish it.

I don't really care about McGee now that he's no longer on this team. What I'm getting a bit sick of is the incessant I told you so's by certain posters every time McGee performs when oddly enough they are nowhere to be found when he doesn't.

The kid's got a massive amount of talent, fact. However, to assert that what we've seen from McGee in the playoffs isn't a microcosm of what we've seen from him in a Wizards uniform is just ignorant.

[hands11]

Unless Denver gets out of this round, I'm not so sure anyone is going to open their pocket book for McGee. I think this in part because he is doing it as a back up and secondly the sample size would be really small. Specially if they lose tonight.

This is a big game for him if he wants to get paid.

30 minutes to go. Can't wait.

[DCZards]

DCZards -- I think it's tough to call Carmelo a "star" in part because he's so tough to build around. You'd probably need to assemble a roster sorta like the Sixers did with Iverson and see how far you can go. He's a soloist who hasn't shown much inclination to blend his talents with teammates for the good of the team. He has talent, but I think he's going to continue to find playoff disappointment until he either gets to a team that will cater to his preferred style of play (isos for himself) or he changes the way he thinks about the game and learns how to blend his talents into a team concept.

It would actually be kind of a fun team to GM in a weird kinda way. If you have Carmelo, who would you choose to play with him. Tyson Chandler seems like an ideal center -- good defense, good offensive rebounding, low usage. At PF, maybe a guy like Ryan Anderson. Stretch 4 who rebounds well (especially on the offensive glass), doesn't need the ball on offense, does a nice job playing off others. Low ego. At SG...hmm...maybe a guy like Brandon Rush or Danny Green -- a 3&D type. At PG...hmm...caretaker, someone with size and defense who doesn't need the ball a lot. Jason Kidd in his dotage wouldn't be bad. Maybe Jordan Farmar? Chris Duhon?

Totally agree that Carmelo is a "soloist" that needs a team built around him. As much as I like his diverse offensive package, the downside is that Melo rarely plays the kind of team ball that leads to long-term success--and playoff wins. I'm always hopeful that Melo will enentually figure that out. I like what you did in tryig to put together a team that just might fit with Melo's style of play.

[Dat2U]

Your something special, lol. Again, you won't even acknowledge the quality of his competition (note I specifically said the Gasol/Bynum frontline) or the depth of the situation (playoffs). And you bringing up a meaningless regular season game is a weak attempt to make what McGee did, look like nothing special.

Not sure why I'm jumping to tontoz defense here, but what he's doing is a lot closer to putting his performance in perspective rather than attempting to diminish it.

I don't really care about McGee now that he's no longer on this team. What I'm getting a bit sick of is the incessant I told you so's by certain posters every time McGee performs when oddly enough they are nowhere to be found when he doesn't.

The kid's got a massive amount of talent, fact. However, to assert that what we've seen from McGee in the playoffs isn't a microcosm of what we've seen from him in a Wizards uniform is just ignorant.

Maybe I just put more value into certain aspects of the situation than other people do.

I'm huge on playoff performance. So when I hear his performance against the Lakers wasn't anything different than what he did in a Wizards uniform, I'm absolutely flabbergasted. I'm wondering aloud "how in the hell can you compare a Wizards regular season game to a playoff game? And when have the Wizards ever played playoff quality basketball? The last six games of this past season?" (In my best Skip Bayless voice) "Are you kidding me???"

I also huge on the competition faced in the playoffs. Bynum is supposed to dominate Javale. Gasol is still one of the top PFs in the league. Regardless of points in the paint allowed, their front line is expected to and usually wins most of their battles. Their problems stem from the lack of depth beyond their big three.

[miller31time]

I still get a kick out of NBA analysts. They're such "lowest common denominator" characters. The Wizards have built up such a reputation that people don't even bother to check the facts to see if it backs up they're idiotic assertion. Latest example, the TNT crew saying how Nick Young and JaVale McGee are both playing so much better now they've gotten out of the hellhole that is D.C. How there's "something in the water" in Washington and if you can get out, by all means, get out.

In reality, both players (McGee and Young) are doing exactly what they've done in Washington for their new teams. Young sucked in LA for the part of the regular season he was with them. And since then, he's caught fire in the playoffs (reminiscent of his entire tenure in Washington -- a guy that lives and dies by the jumpshot, sometimes he's feeling it, other times he's ice cold). Funny thing is that even though he's shooting absolutely lights out this post-season, his PER is still almost exactly what it was in Washington (14.3 compared to 14.2 in Washington). Per-36 minutes in the playoffs, he's averaging 15.4pts, 0.3asts (ouch) and 1.8rebs. Per-36 in Washington, he averaged 19.8pts, 1.4asts and 2.9rebs.

Obviously, he's a changed man.

With McGee, it isn't even much about the numbers. He put up an absolutely fantastic stat-line in game 5. A lot of NBA fans (who didn't see much of McGee in D.C) did what we did long ago when McGee had one of those dominant games for us -- they hyped him up and proclaimed him the next big thing. What they'll learn in time (as we learned in time) is that consistency and basketball IQ, not talent, energy or intensity, are McGee's biggest problems. His stat-line from game 6: 2pts (1-5fg, 0-0ft), 5rebs, 0asts, 20mins.

It's really annoying to be a fan of a franchise that stinks, and when we finally do something good (trading for smart players with great work ethic) and get rid of guys who, while not knuckleheads or bad people, simply lower the collective IQ of the team, we still get knocked for it. We're still that place where talent goes to die. We're still the place that, if you can escape from its depths, you're going to be a "changed man" (despite all evidence pointing to that being absurd) and finally a winner.

I guess the only thing we can do is win. Not for the idiots with microphones and loudspeakers, but for the people who know we're not a cesspool of failure. Not anymore at least.

[tontoz]

This just in from the newswires.

In light of McGee's 2 point performance (his second one of the series) Denver has decided to cancel their plans to build a statue in his honor.

[theboomking]

Truth is very few posters were calling Javale stupid or saying he'd never contribute to a winning team.

If very few posters were calling JaVale stupid, the board doesn't have very high expectations. JaVale is stupid when it comes to basketball. He pretty clearly has one of the worst basketball IQ's in the entire league. How many other players can you recall running to the wrong end of the court in the last 5 years? Wall was clearly happy McGee was gone, and Deron Williams didn't call out McGee by name because JaVale is a high IQ basketball player.

I think Vale can become a good offensive player and even rebounder. I wouldn't expect McGee to ever become a competent defender. Our defense was significantly worse with McGee on the court, and the same is true of the Nuggets this year, when Vale was, in large part,playing against backups.
McGee can certainly contribute to a winning team, but no team will make it deep into the playoffs, because of McGee's play. Good interior defense is too important.

And, in 6 playoff games this season, McGee is averaging 9.0 points a game on .478 shooting, .500 from the line, and 8.8 rebounds a game in 25 minutes. He couldn't sniff the court last night in the first half as the Nuggets built their lead. Super impressive. Totally different player than he was in Washington.

[Ruzious]

I still get a kick out of NBA analysts. They're such "lowest common denominator" characters. The Wizards have built up such a reputation that people don't even bother to check the facts to see if it backs up they're idiotic assertion. Latest example, the TNT crew saying how Nick Young and JaVale McGee are both playing so much better now they've gotten out of the hellhole that is D.C. How there's "something in the water" in Washington and if you can get out, by all means, get out.

In reality, both players (McGee and Young) are doing exactly what they've done in Washington for their new teams. Young sucked in LA for the part of the regular season he was with them. And since then, he's caught fire in the playoffs (reminiscent of his entire tenure in Washington -- a guy that lives and dies by the jumpshot, sometimes he's feeling it, other times he's ice cold). Funny thing is that even though he's shooting absolutely lights out this post-season, his PER is still almost exactly what it was in Washington (14.3 compared to 14.2 in Washington). Per-36 minutes in the playoffs, he's averaging 15.4pts, 0.3asts (ouch) and 1.8rebs. Per-36 in Washington, he averaged 19.8pts, 1.4asts and 2.9rebs.

Obviously, he's a changed man.

With McGee, it isn't even much about the numbers. He put up an absolutely fantastic stat-line in game 5. A lot of NBA fans (who didn't see much of McGee in D.C) did what we did long ago when McGee had one of those dominant games for us -- they hyped him up and proclaimed him the next big thing. What they'll learn in time (as we learned in time) is that consistency and basketball IQ, not talent, energy or intensity, are McGee's biggest problems. His stat-line from game 6: 2pts (1-5fg, 0-0ft), 5rebs, 0asts, 20mins.

It's really annoying to be a fan of a franchise that stinks, and when we finally do something good (trading for smart players with great work ethic) and get rid of guys who, while not knuckleheads or bad people, simply lower the collective IQ of the team, we still get knocked for it. We're still that place where talent goes to die. We're still the place that, if you can escape from its depths, you're going to be a "changed man" (despite all evidence pointing to that being absurd) and finally a winner.

I guess the only thing we can do is win. Not for the idiots with microphones and loudspeakers, but for the people who know we're not a cesspool of failure. Not anymore at least.

Amen. They are what we've seen thay are - and that hasn't changed. The Wiz low IQ was because they were built around them. Now that they're gone, we've seen the Wiz IQ go way up. There's a lesson there for media folks who understand how to add 1 plus 1.

[Spence]

Spence? you still lurking around these parts? cray cray.

In the immortal words of Indiana Jones: "I'm like a bad penny. I always turn up."

[Spence]

Unless Denver gets out of this round, I'm not so sure anyone is going to open their pocket book for McGee. I think this in part because he is doing it as a back up and secondly the sample size would be really small.

All he needs is one team and there is usually one sucker out there who can't control himself.

[nate33]

Your something special, lol. Again, you won't even acknowledge the quality of his competition (note I specifically said the Gasol/Bynum frontline) or the depth of the situation (playoffs). And you bringing up a meaningless regular season game is a weak attempt to make what McGee did, look like nothing special.

Not sure why I'm jumping to tontoz defense here, but what he's doing is a lot closer to putting his performance in perspective rather than attempting to diminish it.

I don't really care about McGee now that he's no longer on this team. What I'm getting a bit sick of is the incessant I told you so's by certain posters every time McGee performs when oddly enough they are nowhere to be found when he doesn't.

The kid's got a massive amount of talent, fact. However, to assert that what we've seen from McGee in the playoffs isn't a microcosm of what we've seen from him in a Wizards uniform is just ignorant.

Well said, hermitkid.

I think both sides are taking things a bit out of context for the sake of setting up a strawman to knock down. McGee had a great game 5. That is undeniable. And nobody here is denying it. But McGee has also been playing more or less exactly the way he played in Washington. His playoff PER is 20.8. It was 19.6 in Washington. The modest improvement can probably be explained by the fact that he is playing more minutes against backups, and Denver has the luxury of benching him when he plays poorly.

As miller31time points out, the narrative that McGee has suddenly picked up his game after leaving Washington is simply false. McGee remains the same player he always was. He has incredible talent mixed with an appalling lack of consistency and basketball IQ. Nothing he has done in the playoffs changes my mind about the trade.

Maybe McGee will turn the corner and become a consistently dominant player. Maybe he won't. Either way, it doesn't bother me all that much because I'm convinced that he never would have done so in Washington.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

What's wrong with this: McGee and mom are happy in Denver. McGee accepts that he's just a part of winning team, an important piece of a team that with very young players has forced a game seven against the Lakers. Javale stays where he is, a rotation player playing for a HOF coach, on a team that has a chance to eliminate LA. McGee accepts 4 years, $42 M, because it's not just about the money with him. He is LOVED in Denver, and that team is going to get better.

Eventually, people are going to stop laughing at what might be a disability with McGee and they are going to accept that he plays with heart and hustle and that is all you can ask of anyone. Some people are challenged. Some people could not bench press 225 pounds if their life depended on it, and others could do it 20 times. Some people think algebra is hard and others can teach math, some folks cannot run a mile but others (including one of my all time favorite posters) run marathons.

So what if Javale isn't the brightest dude? I like him. I think he's going to be fine in Denver and he's okay even if this is who he is. I've already said I expect McGee will gain weight and get stronger like Bynum. He is not finished improving. Javale is a good rebounder and with increased strength he will get in the paint more. I don't think he's ever going to be consistent, but he's going to be considered a good C.

Also, with time his basketball IQ will get better. I am not sure about his impulsive moves or his struggles with asthma, but I think he's going to slow down for the better, and he seems to be do so now already. Again, I like Javale, mistakes and all. I appreciate that the guy is different and I think a good coach can work around his mistakes.

[closg00]

+1 CCJ, I think it all comes down to whether you think JaVale will improve over the next few years, I think he will with a better organization.

[hands11]

If he is you back up center, he is not worst 10M a year. That is where things fall apart with McGee.

I don't think the full effect the of the new CBA has been realized yet.

What will happen. Stay tuned. I wouldn't sign him for more then 5-6M over 3 years. And I would consider that paying him really well.

Value players are more and more valuable. Players that are not picked top 3 or so.

Keith Faried. You know what that guy is scheduled to make in 2014/15 ? $2,373,537
And he is already starting.

This is why some of us talk about trade downs more then others. Sure, it is great if you can get that stud players at the top, but you don't need to draft a team of them. First thing you need to do is outfit a competent (two deep) team that can make the playoffs while having draft picks on the way and a good cap position so you can strike when the opportunity presents itself. This idea of getting all the big name stars things doesn't seem to have worked for NY and NJ got let hanging. What Miami did and what the Celtics did is really not the way to go moving forward with the new CBA.

The biggest problem with the last playoff team the Wizards built was that they locked into a roster that couldn't win it all by extending those contracts. Up until they did that, it was a good design.

Personally, I put a premium on smart mature players. That is a must for me when I consider who I want added to the team. From there, I look at need and value ( how much and how long ) Because of this criteria, I would never never never extended Gil on that contract. I would have resigned CB and I would have considered AJ but only to come off the bench. 6-7M. If not, you trade him or let him walk. Keep you eye on the long term goal.

In a way, its more important that you don't mess up then that you wing for to many home runs. Stay away from players like Barnes. Actually stay away from players like Nick or McGee. Draft players like Tyler or Faried. Hell, I would even put Vesely in that group. You draft players who you know are going to bring it every day. Draft smart players. Draft players with NBA ready bodies. Draft team players. Stay away from prima donnas or flakes like Gil. You can have them in the short term but ever build with them in mind longer term.

Its the better team that wins. Obviously it is more complicated that what I wrote but that is the general direction I prefer.

[leswizards]

Unless Denver gets out of this round, I'm not so sure anyone is going to open their pocket book for McGee. I think this in part because he is doing it as a back up and secondly the sample size would be really small.

All he needs is one team and there is usually one sucker out there who can't control himself.

Unless the team choose to bid against itself (which is not unheard of), he actually need two teams to bid on his services.

[FAH1223]

George Karl is doing a magnificient job with McGee and that whole team. On the telecast last night, Marv Albert and Steve Kerr were saying that the day of Game 4, he realized the Lakers aren't THAT much better. And they showed a clip of Karl saying "you don't have to be great, you don't have to be special, just be SOLID" a simple message. I immediately thought of JaVale and Flip talking about style over substance. But the difference is, Karl is saying things in a way to encourage his players. That's a great coach.

[Higga]

McGee last night: 2 points and 5 boards.

Snap back to reality. McGee is what he is: a talented but extremely erratic C.

[7-Day Dray]

McGee last night: 2 points and 5 boards.

Snap back to reality. McGee is what he is: a talented but extremely erratic C.

+1 Gad we're not going to be the team paying him $50 Mil.

[Halcyon]

Pretty sure the next big game he has (if they advance past the Lakers) it will up his salary again by a couple mil. It's so funny watching the overreaction to his highs and lows.

[hands11]

Pretty sure the next big game he has (if they advance past the Lakers) it will up his salary again by a couple mil. It's so funny watching the overreaction to his highs and lows.

What makes McGee so different ?

He is a bench player. Bench players have big games sometimes. Well at least the better bench players do.

Chris Anderson is going to make 4,526,000 next year. He is on their books for 2 more years. That is how much the guy who was their energy guy who backs up at center and blocked shots makes. And when CA had it rolling, he produced that game in and game out.

So why would McGee get paid 10M. I just don't get it. Unless he is the starting center, I just don't see it. And unless they make him the starting center, I'm not even sure he resigns with them. Just glad we don't have to deal with any of that.