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Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Edition)

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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Editio 

Post#1001 » by Blue_and_Whte » Tue May 15, 2012 5:55 pm

eyriq wrote:
Just Plain Mark wrote:I had been hoping for change at the GM level at this point too. I'm especially frustrated but not surprised by Alex Kennedy's statements about the Magic's draft approach. Fans have now had to endure this unprepared, unsuccessful draft approach for 7 years. Its well past time for a change.


I don't agree with the general antipathy towards our drafts. We punted '07, '09' and '11' and we grabbed Fran, Redick, Lee, and Orton with the other first rounders. We had Anderson ahead of Lee and then traded for him, Redick and have both started for us. We did not pick up the option on Orton and whiffed on Fran to be sure but even that isn't a finished story.

Ive been saying the same thing essentially. I really haven't had a issue outside of fran. Orton was a late pick did people really expect our rookies to be world beaters thei first year/
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Editio 

Post#1002 » by Nemesis21 » Tue May 15, 2012 5:55 pm

MoMM wrote:I think we could add Nelson to this list too, Nemesis, cuz we traded for him in draft night. And in 2000 we selected ROY with #5 pick (Mike Miller).

As for Curtis Borchardt i would take him away from this list, because Jazz traded for him and add Ryan Humphrey to the list (even worse).

But i agree with you, we havent done a good overall job, IMO.



Done.

I'm mean look at what OKC's GM has built, in 5 yrs Presti built them into contenders. They very well could win a championship before us.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Editio 

Post#1003 » by Blue_and_Whte » Tue May 15, 2012 6:06 pm

Nemesis21 wrote:
MoMM wrote:I think we could add Nelson to this list too, Nemesis, cuz we traded for him in draft night. And in 2000 we selected ROY with #5 pick (Mike Miller).

As for Curtis Borchardt i would take him away from this list, because Jazz traded for him and add Ryan Humphrey to the list (even worse).

But i agree with you, we havent done a good overall job, IMO.



Done.

I'm mean look at what OKC's GM has built, in 5 yrs Presti built them into contenders. They very well could win a championship before us.
right and they also had multiple high draft picks and pick the best players available. It's not like they made miraculous moves to get westbrook and durant. Orlando drafted Howard and also became contenders. You can say the same thing about a lot of other teams in the nba if youre comparing them to okc. Presti looks llke a genius now until he has to resign all of those guys. Not saying i agree with everything the magic front office did but nonetheless I dont think presti is that good. If he can somehow keep that group together then ill be impressed.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Editio 

Post#1004 » by arsenal6106 » Tue May 15, 2012 6:23 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:
MoMM wrote:I think we could add Nelson to this list too, Nemesis, cuz we traded for him in draft night. And in 2000 we selected ROY with #5 pick (Mike Miller).

As for Curtis Borchardt i would take him away from this list, because Jazz traded for him and add Ryan Humphrey to the list (even worse).

But i agree with you, we havent done a good overall job, IMO.



Done.

I'm mean look at what OKC's GM has built, in 5 yrs Presti built them into contenders. They very well could win a championship before us.
right and they also had multiple high draft picks and pick the best players available. It's not like they made miraculous moves to get westbrook and durant. Orlando drafted Howard and also became contenders. You can say the same thing about a lot of other teams in the nba if youre comparing them to okc. Presti looks llke a genius now until he has to resign all of those guys. Not saying i agree with everything the magic front office did but nonetheless I dont think presti is that good. If he can somehow keep that group together then ill be impressed.



Do you think OKC would've passed on Oden if they had the first pick?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Editio 

Post#1005 » by BadMofoPimp » Tue May 15, 2012 6:39 pm

Every GM will look like a genius drafting a Superstar talent. Presti got lucky in getting both Durant and Westbrook (Westbrook was a gamble that paid off). But, I do give Presti credit for going after youth instead of spending big bucks on Vets.

Magic got Dwight and Otis lured enough talent to help get them to the finals once. Proof that a Superstar does make a GM look better than they are.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Editio 

Post#1006 » by glennathan » Tue May 15, 2012 6:42 pm

^^ I think if Seattle had the #1 overall pick they still would have taken Durant. I think they would have taken him no matter what.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Editio 

Post#1007 » by rcklsscognition » Tue May 15, 2012 6:44 pm

I'm hearing Otis might be canned today or tomorrow and that there will be a meeting with whomever is left in the FO on Friday to decide on SVG.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Editio 

Post#1008 » by T-Cat » Tue May 15, 2012 7:02 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:I'm hearing Otis might be canned today or tomorrow and that there will be a meeting with whomever is left in the FO on Friday to decide on SVG.


Otis still has one more job to do before he's gone!
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Editio 

Post#1009 » by arkknight1988 » Tue May 15, 2012 7:08 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:I'm hearing Otis might be canned today or tomorrow and that there will be a meeting with whomever is left in the FO on Friday to decide on SVG.

it feels like something will happen today. its been too quite..
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Editio 

Post#1010 » by arkknight1988 » Tue May 15, 2012 7:11 pm

good move to get otis out asap and start interviewing candidates. new gm need time to get settled and prepare for the draft. please no to foyle
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Editio 

Post#1011 » by The Real Dalic » Tue May 15, 2012 7:27 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:I'm hearing Otis might be canned today or tomorrow and that there will be a meeting with whomever is left in the FO on Friday to decide on SVG.

Where/who are you hearing this from?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Editio 

Post#1012 » by Just Plain Mark » Tue May 15, 2012 7:33 pm

eyriq wrote:
Just Plain Mark wrote:I had been hoping for change at the GM level at this point too. I'm especially frustrated but not surprised by Alex Kennedy's statements about the Magic's draft approach. Fans have now had to endure this unprepared, unsuccessful draft approach for 7 years. Its well past time for a change.


I don't agree with the general antipathy towards our drafts. We punted '07, '09' and '11' and we grabbed Fran, Redick, Lee, and Orton with the other first rounders. We had Anderson ahead of Lee and then traded for him, Redick and have both started for us. We did not pick up the option on Orton and whiffed on Fran to be sure but even that isn't a finished story.


I'm not sure I understand what your saying. You don't agree that the my antipathy towards the Magic's drafts or you don't agree with the front offices (alleged) antipathy towards the draft?

My complaints regarding Otis and the draft are twofold: 1) poor outcomes; and 2) terrible approach (this is the killer for me).

If you disagree with my view of the drafts then I disagree with you. :) "Punting" on the draft is another version of "drafting" poorly when you don't get return on the draft picks: see 2007 when Detroit picked Stuckey with Orl's pick from the Darko trade - the Magic ended up losing the pick and Darko so this is a net loss related to the draft.

In 2006, Otis chose Redick over Rondo and Sefalosha - not the a complete failure, but not impressive. Also, in 2006, the Magic chose James Augustine instead of Paul Millsap, Leon Powe or Ryan Hollins. All three are playing (or in the case of Powe, would be playing except for injury) in the NBA, and Millsap and Hollins are/were on 2012 playoff teams.

In 2007, the Magic drafted Reyshawn Terry (he was ultimately traded to Dallas) instead of Marc Gasol, Aaron Gray or Ramon Sessions (2 of which play on 2012 playoff teams). This was also the Darko/Stuckey year.

I think Otis did well in 2008 by drafting Lee (and nabbing Anderson via trade) - however, this is also a year that the Magic did their homework on both Lee and Anderson by bringing them in for workouts so its not exactly evidence that my feelings towards the Otis' general draft approach (ill prepared) is off base.

2009 is a year I'm willing to give Otis grace because he used the 1st round pick to acquire an emergency PG in Alston and while Alston was terrible in the playoffs overall, he was the PG on a Finals team.

Otis' performance for the 2010 draft is notably poor because Otis did not do his homework on the player he chose and the player he chose (unsurpisingly) could not even provide the Magic with minimal help at a position that the Magic had the least depth.

Otis' performance for the 2011 draft is also notably poor for several reasons: 1) he didn't do his homework on Harper and Harper did not contribute this year and doesn't necessarily look like he will contribute in the future; 2) he included the team's 1st rounder in the trade to PHX which just adds to the lopsided nature of that deal - FWIW, the Magic could have chosen Marshawn Borrks or Norris Cole with that pick; 3) he chose Harper over Chandler Parsons; 4) he chose Liggins over E'Twaun Moore and Isaiah Thomas.

Since 2004, Otis has had 1 good draft (08) and 1 decent draft (06) out of 7 drafts (excluding 2009 because of Jameer's injury). On top of his poor record, he has demonstrated a poor approach by giving away picks without ensuring return (see 07 and 10), and even worse, not done adequate homework - see Vazquez, Orton, and Harper. I think the results are hard to debate, but I think the approach he's shown has been uqustionably poor.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Editio 

Post#1013 » by MoMM » Tue May 15, 2012 7:37 pm

Not to mention he traded 2 2nd round picks for Harper.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Editio 

Post#1014 » by BadMofoPimp » Tue May 15, 2012 7:39 pm

The Real Dalic wrote:
rcklsscognition wrote:I'm hearing Otis might be canned today or tomorrow and that there will be a meeting with whomever is left in the FO on Friday to decide on SVG.

Where/who are you hearing this from?


Unless he knows someone at the Magic or is friends with Rudolph or really is Rudolph, then he is speculating. I searched the entire net and not one iota or twitter confirms this rumor.

But, it is about that time Otis said he would make his decision.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Editio 

Post#1015 » by WeAreVenom » Tue May 15, 2012 8:03 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:I'm hearing Otis might be canned today or tomorrow and that there will be a meeting with whomever is left in the FO on Friday to decide on SVG.


I know you, rcklesscognition, and I know you're a reputable poster, so I'm inclined to believe you.......

But where did you hear this?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Editio 

Post#1016 » by thelead » Tue May 15, 2012 8:11 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:I'm hearing Otis might be canned today or tomorrow and that there will be a meeting with whomever is left in the FO on Friday to decide on SVG.

:pray:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Editio 

Post#1017 » by rcklsscognition » Tue May 15, 2012 8:30 pm

What I heard came to me from someone within another basketball organization, not the Magic, Since I'm sort of new here, I don't know how reliable the info is, or if it's just water cooler chat stuff. We'll see I guess. If it doesn't pan out I'll keep my mouth shut from here on out. :wink:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Editio 

Post#1018 » by Blue_and_Whte » Tue May 15, 2012 8:38 pm

They just Need to figure it out already.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Editio 

Post#1019 » by ChosenSavior » Tue May 15, 2012 8:42 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:I'm hearing Otis might be canned today or tomorrow and that there will be a meeting with whomever is left in the FO on Friday to decide on SVG.


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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIII: Offseason Editio 

Post#1020 » by Def Swami » Tue May 15, 2012 8:44 pm

It shouldn't take a week to fire Stan and Otis. The fact that it has taken a week means they must actually be considering bringing one or both back. Do we really need a meeting to make a "decision" on Stan? There should be no hesitation to give both the axe.

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