Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition)

[arsenal6106]

Got it. I'll take care of it when I wake up.

Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk

They just locked it. There were 3 posts in the final page.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1180000 (locked) (100 3/15 pages)

So [100 3/15 + 2,190 14/15] = 2,291 2/15

The OP is currently at 2,291 2/15 pages total.

Updated. The OP is now on page 2 because the phil jackson thread was merged to this one.

[Darth Magic]

You fire Stan because the threw the organization under the bus, it has nothing to do with Dwight staying or going. You do not keep a coach that sabotages your chances at keeping the franchise player, it is that simple. Frankly as much as i liked him as a coach i thought he should've been gone immediately, he was lucky it was close to the playoffs and not at the start of the season or he likely would have been.

If it were me in charge Stan wouldn't have time to finish his Pepsi has ass would have been out the door so fast.

[eyriq]

Got it. I'll take care of it when I wake up.

Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk

They just locked it. There were 3 posts in the final page.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1180000 (locked) (100 3/15 pages)

So [100 3/15 + 2,190 14/15] = 2,291 2/15

The OP is currently at 2,291 2/15 pages total.

Updated. The OP is now on page 2 because the phil jackson thread was merged to this one.

Whoops

Edit: Fixed

[KingRobb02]

To everyone thinking that Bynum/Griffin/Melo should be involved in any Dwight trade, can we please be realistic? Those guys all have much better supporting players now Kobe, Paul, Amare etc. and won a combined 1 game in the second round. If we add those guys to our core with a likely first time head coach, what are you hoping for?

[eyriq]

To everyone thinking that Bynum/Griffin/Melo should be involved in any Dwight trade, can we please be realistic? Those guys all have much better supporting players now Kobe, Paul, Amare etc. and won a combined 1 game in the second round. If we add those guys to our core with a likely first time head coach, what are you hoping for?

Would you argue that none of those three are potential #1 on a champ players? I mean I know it can be argued but I'm wondering if that is your position.

[Magicman125]

They lost to OKC, SAS, and a healthy MIA. Arguably the three best teams in the league. We have to get value back for him, he's arguably the most impactful player in the game. We're not saying it's a fair trade, we're saying these are some of the best trades possible if he indeed does want out. I'd rather have Bynum than a bunch of cap space, especially for this summer, where the FA talent pool doesn't look too good.

[eyriq]

Sources tell me Shaw, the Pacers associate coach and a former Magic player, is the preference of the DeVos family.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_spo ... Dwn1dqm49J

[KingRobb02]

To everyone thinking that Bynum/Griffin/Melo should be involved in any Dwight trade, can we please be realistic? Those guys all have much better supporting players now Kobe, Paul, Amare etc. and won a combined 1 game in the second round. If we add those guys to our core with a likely first time head coach, what are you hoping for?

Would you argue that none of those three are potential #1 on a champ players? I mean I know it can be argued but I'm wondering if that is your position.

The only one I am willing to close the file on is Carmelo. He is definitely not good enough to be a #1 guy. I am really close to saying no on Bynum. In his breakout season this year, he still acted really immature (read some of the stuff he said after games) and I never got the feeling that he wasn't just here to look good and get money. Blake Griffin is the one who loves game the most, but he is limited physically. He's 6'8" with short arms and his hops won't be around forever. That's not a recipe for a guy to build around since he doesn't try on defense and his offensive game is still raw.

[OrlandO]

Did Rudolph say anything worth noting on 740thegame?

[KingRobb02]

They lost to OKC, SAS, and a healthy MIA. Arguably the three best teams in the league. We have to get value back for him, he's arguably the most impactful player in the game. We're not saying it's a fair trade, we're saying these are some of the best trades possible if he indeed does want out. I'd rather have Bynum than a bunch of cap space, especially for this summer, where the FA talent pool doesn't look too good.

Are we going to a league where those teams don't exist? You can't talk about getting value in return while ignoring the value of a full rebuild. I wish there was a quantitative way to put a future value on the contracts of getting a second tier player vs the value of cap space and draft picks. That would really help get the message across.

[arsenal6106]

Love how you set this up

Just saw this. Thanks...


As far as Foyle being the front runner for the job. It doesn't fit in with Martins' philosophy of bringing in championship experience.

I would love to have Walsh, but I don't believe he has "championship experience" either.

Which available GM does?

[eyriq]

To everyone thinking that Bynum/Griffin/Melo should be involved in any Dwight trade, can we please be realistic? Those guys all have much better supporting players now Kobe, Paul, Amare etc. and won a combined 1 game in the second round. If we add those guys to our core with a likely first time head coach, what are you hoping for?

Would you argue that none of those three are potential #1 on a champ players? I mean I know it can be argued but I'm wondering if that is your position.

The only one I am willing to close the file on is Carmelo. He is definitely not good enough to be a #1 guy. I am really close to saying no on Bynum. In his breakout season this year, he still acted really immature (read some of the stuff he said after games) and I never got the feeling that he wasn't just here to look good and get money. Blake Griffin is the one who loves game the most, but he is limited physically. He's 6'8" with short arms and his hops won't be around forever. That's not a recipe for a guy to build around since he doesn't try on defense and his offensive game is still raw.

I'm inclined to agree or at least asterisk them as being much tougher to build around than say your dominant 5-7 league best players.

[WeAreVenom]

Sources tell me Shaw, the Pacers associate coach and a former Magic player, is the preference of the DeVos family.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_spo ... Dwn1dqm49J

Hell. Yes.

[KingRobb02]

Would you argue that none of those three are potential #1 on a champ players? I mean I know it can be argued but I'm wondering if that is your position.

The only one I am willing to close the file on is Carmelo. He is definitely not good enough to be a #1 guy. I am really close to saying no on Bynum. In his breakout season this year, he still acted really immature (read some of the stuff he said after games) and I never got the feeling that he wasn't just here to look good and get money. Blake Griffin is the one who loves game the most, but he is limited physically. He's 6'8" with short arms and his hops won't be around forever. That's not a recipe for a guy to build around since he doesn't try on defense and his offensive game is still raw.

I'm inclined to agree or at least asterisk them as being much tougher to build around than say your dominant 5-7 league best players.

If anything, the current era of NBA has taught us that you can't just build around one or two highly paid guy. While I love what Pat Riley did to put together the evil empire down south, I would say that Bosh going down shows how risky his maneuvers were. They have two of those top 5-7 guys you were talking about and are needing historic performances from Lebron just to stay alive against the Pacers. The Thunder seem to be built around 2 guys with a great supporting cast that they were able to build through the draft and being awful for 3 years. They seem like a safer bet than the Heat at this point even though their top guys are nowhere near the Heat's top guys. The Spurs haven't picked in the top 20 in over a decade, so I just assume that they have a copy of Grey's Sports Almanac that is telling them where to find value. The Bulls went the route of just being so deep that it doesn't matter who plays for the. They won the east even though their best player missed nearly 40% of their games. It just seems like, instead of looking to get a name to replace Dwight, we need to spend a few years building a team the hard way.

[JigenDaisuke]

Stan knows Dwight wants to go. I'm sure he also knows Dwight doesn't like him. The Magic want to keep Dwight at the expensive of everyone else. I think Stan probably was just ready to leave anyways and didn't want to deal with this next season. Which would explain him confirming that Dwight wanted him fired. Sounds like he was done with the Magic organization and done with Dwight drama. Which is understandable. He can go get another head coaching job easily somewhere else and start fresh. If Dwight ends up being traded, the Magic will go to rebuild mode. So getting rid of Stan doesn't really matter either way.

[eyriq]

If anything, the current era of NBA has taught us that you can't just build around one or two highly paid guy. While I love what Pat Riley did to put together the evil empire down south, I would say that Bosh going down shows how risky his maneuvers were. They have two of those top 5-7 guys you were talking about and are needing historic performances from Lebron just to stay alive against the Pacers. The Thunder seem to be built around 2 guys with a great supporting cast that they were able to build through the draft and being awful for 3 years. They seem like a safer bet than the Heat at this point even though their top guys are nowhere near the Heat's top guys. The Spurs haven't picked in the top 20 in over a decade, so I just assume that they have a copy of Grey's Sports Almanac that is telling them where to find value. The Bulls went the route of just being so deep that it doesn't matter who plays for the. They won the east even though their best player missed nearly 40% of their games. It just seems like, instead of looking to get a name to replace Dwight, we need to spend a few years building a team the hard way.

Of all the mechanisms for acquiring a franchise player the draft has to be the most consistently successful choice. Rarely do you trade a franchise player unless there is serious baggage, and cap space only rarely leverages a franchise player to switch teams. Recently though we've seen a high occurrence of both trades and cap space getting the job done in building Miami and NYK cores while filling out the LAC core, and then of course Boston in '08. Meanwhile the teams you mentioned, Chicago, OKC and SAN, not to mention Dallas, all acquired their #1 through the draft and built up either via more draft picks, cap space, or trades.

The main draw to acquiring one of these fringe #1 players for Dwight is that we also could free up either cap space or acquire draft picks to fill out the core. Anyway, optimally we'll just keep Dwight or tank.

[T-Cat]

Did Rudolph say anything worth noting on 740thegame?

He's just thirsty for attention, i mean has he ever been right on a topic?

[Last Guardian]

Sources tell me Shaw, the Pacers associate coach and a former Magic player, is the preference of the DeVos family.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_spo ... Dwn1dqm49J

Hell. Yes.

That would be a great start to rebuilding.

[KingRobb02]

If anything, the current era of NBA has taught us that you can't just build around one or two highly paid guy. While I love what Pat Riley did to put together the evil empire down south, I would say that Bosh going down shows how risky his maneuvers were. They have two of those top 5-7 guys you were talking about and are needing historic performances from Lebron just to stay alive against the Pacers. The Thunder seem to be built around 2 guys with a great supporting cast that they were able to build through the draft and being awful for 3 years. They seem like a safer bet than the Heat at this point even though their top guys are nowhere near the Heat's top guys. The Spurs haven't picked in the top 20 in over a decade, so I just assume that they have a copy of Grey's Sports Almanac that is telling them where to find value. The Bulls went the route of just being so deep that it doesn't matter who plays for the. They won the east even though their best player missed nearly 40% of their games. It just seems like, instead of looking to get a name to replace Dwight, we need to spend a few years building a team the hard way.

Of all the mechanisms for acquiring a franchise player the draft has to be the most consistently successful choice. Rarely do you trade a franchise player unless there is serious baggage, and cap space only rarely leverages a franchise player to switch teams. Recently though we've seen a high occurrence of both trades and cap space getting the job done in building Miami and NYK cores while filling out the LAC core, and then of course Boston in '08. Meanwhile the teams you mentioned, Chicago, OKC and SAN, not to mention Dallas, all acquired their #1 through the draft and built up either via more draft picks, cap space, or trades.

The main draw to acquiring one of these fringe #1 players for Dwight is that we also could free up either cap space or acquire draft picks to fill out the core. Anyway, optimally we'll just keep Dwight or tank.

Well, I wouldn't quite say it worked for New York, they've won 1 playoff game in the two years since they acquired their franchise guys. The Knicks' issue is that they have the misfortune of getting the two most overrated stars in the league. Amare and Carmelo are both second fiddles who think they need to be treated like superstars. Then they compound the problem by paying Chandler 14M (I love Chandler but he's a 12 and 9 guy, c'mon). Right now we should be licking our chops and calling every team that loses in the playoffs. Hey Bulls, you want to amnesty Boozer? How about you take Big Baby and give us Gibson and 2 of your next 3 picks? Clippers, you need a guy who can distribute the ball when CP is resting? Take Turkoglu, that will get you over the hump.

I think what most people miss about the NYK, BOS, and LAC situations is that these teams had assets in place first. You can sell teams on giving you stuff for young guys. We don't have any young guys. Chris Paul was had for Al Aminu, Kaman's expiring, and 3 games of Eric Gordon. The Knicks got Carmelo for youth. Boston got KG and Ray for youth and a top 5 pick. Team building is simple if you can amass assets, the problem is that we have no assets right now (aside from Ryan), so we're starting from 0.

[SEBAS-07]

I am a little leery with Brian Shaw, would he run the triangle?

do we have the personnel to run the triangle?