The 2012 NBA Draft: 6th & 11th picks, and some random 2nds.

[DusterBuster]

His BBIQ is actually one of his listed strong points (I didn't watch enough Connecticut to say), but his motor does scare me. But if we get the Nets pick and Beal, Robinson, and Kidd-Gilchrist are gone? I'd be real tempted to take him over Barnes/Sullinger and definitely Perry Jones.

I guess that's kind of what I meant. I wasn't questioning his BBIQ, just his mental toughness.

That said, I'd take him no questions asked if he slips to the Nets pick.

[The Sebastian Express]

Ooooh I see I see. My bad.

[Sabzi]

Sullinger has a lot to prove athletically and it will interesting to see if he accepts workouts against the bigger players.

[Shem]

What do people think of PG's Damian Lillard and Kendall Marshall?

[DusterBuster]

What do people think of PG's Damian Lillard and Kendall Marshall?

It just comes down to what kind of PG you like. If you like the old-school pass-first style PG who sets up his teammates like a Nash or Stockton, then Marshall is your guy. If you want the new-school style of scoring PG like Westbrook or Rose, then you take the shot on Lillard.

And fwiw, I'm not saying Marshall or Lillard are going to be as good as any of those guys.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

What do people think of PG's Damian Lillard and Kendall Marshall?

Both are risky.

If Lillard is not an elite NBA scorer, he has a very limited ceiling. Not a great playmaker or defender.


If Marshall is a defensive liability as well as a scoring/shooting weakness, his playmaking alone will not make him a quality starter.



I seem to be alone on this, but I think Teague has more NBA potential than either. He played like a real PG in a very NBA like offense at Kentucky, and has great athleticism with good size and length. He has better shooting fundamentals than Marshall, but not a great shot selection on a stacked team (biggest worry about him). Still, IMO he is most likely to someday hold his own as an NBA starter (not as flawed as Marshall or Lillard), possibly on par with guys like Lawson or Holiday.

[Blaze01]

Your not alone...IF POR is hell bent on drafting for need (and ignoring BPA) then Teague or Wroten should be the picks....

[Walton'sBeard!]

Marshall never shot as poorly as Teague did. Teague has a LONG way to go to even be role player material. And some of the best PG's in NBA history were not great defenders, so I do think Marshall can get by on his playmaking alone. Making your teammates better is invaluable.

Wroten isn't a PG, he averages more turnovers than assists. And for a SG he can't shoot.

I do share your concerns about Lilliard, I think he could be another Kemba Walker.

[Downtown]

DeBlazerRiddem said it best I think. At this stage it looks a bit risky to think theres a pointguard in this draft that can be counted on to step in as the Blazers starter. But I could be completely wrong when you see how well Isiah Thomas did for Sacramento this season, coming out of nowhere.

But I suppose the whole draft outside of the top five or so can be considered risky if you're counting on these young guys to have an impact right away. You just don't know and the pre draft workouts might shed a bit more light although as fans we won't get much information since teams hold their cards close to their vest before the draft so nothing slips out, especially from the position(s) Portland drafts.

[Norm2953]

If I were Portland, I'd go all out to get the players they want in the draft and not focus
on free agent signings to improve the team. Target the guys like Beal, MKG and guys like
that and avoid the head cases or injured as much as possible.

I think we're headed for a major disappointment trying to convince any significant free
agent to sign here unless we seriously overpay for a guy who has very few options. I'd
recommend we target the next level of guys after Davis is picked and pay the price to
get those guys. Signing free agents who act like prima donnas is a thankless task and
we'd be better off letting those guys go elsewhere and be someone else's problem.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

Marshall never shot as poorly as Teague did. Teague has a LONG way to go to even be role player material.

I don't know about a long way to go to be a role player, but I agree Teague needs development and is not as developed as Marshall is. Part of this is age, but also that Marshall is very mature for his age.

My point was more that Teague has more NBA type tools than either the others. His athleticism is above the others, and he seems to be a solid playmaker and an ok go to scorer (very good at breaking down a defense, which is an NBA necessity for a PG). He isn't a great scorer like Lillard, and he isn't a great playmaker like Lillard, but he has both abilities in his tool-bag while the other guys lack one or the other. I am not trying to hype Teague as the next big thing, I am saying he will be a solid all-around PG with few weaknesses and a solid ability to get past defenders and into the lane to draw a foul, score or make a play.

In comparison to Marshall, yes Marshall had slightly better percentages, but took A LOT fewer shots. Teague took and made more shots Marshall did - Marshall had a FG% of 46% on 255* shots while Teague had a FG% of 41% on 352 shots. Neither is outstanding to be sure, but that is a small decrease for a huge volume difference (defenders had to play Teague for a shot, but could leave Marshall open). Teague also drew more fouls (another necessary NBA skill) and shot them at a higher % than Marshall.


EDIT: I would like to say, I think Marshall is more NBA ready and will have a bigger effect his rookie year. However, Teague has a high ceiling and could be better in a couple years - my main point is I wouldn't be opposed to passing on Marshall at 11 and trading down for Teague around 14-18 and picking up an extra asset. Something like 11 to Houston for 16 and Budinger (or better)

[Norm2953]

It's better to withhold judgement on the players until they are here to workout for
the team. If we don't get NJ's pick, we're likely to be picking BPA for Lillard and
Marshall are likely to be gone.

[Walton'sBeard!]

It's better to withhold judgement on the players until they are here to workout for
the team. If we don't get NJ's pick, we're likely to be picking BPA for Lillard and
Marshall are likely to be gone.

You got invited to the workouts?



DeBlazer, you make some good points. But I have never bought into the justification of poor shooting due to high volume. Seems like a PG that shoots poorly should realize he shoots poorly and focus more on setting up teammates.

I think Marshall recognized his role early in the year. He had Jones, Barnes and Zeller to defer to and he served his team better than almost any PG before him. Down the stretch, when the need arose for him to score, he proved he could score at a solid clip, all the while still setting up teammates very well.

Yeah, I am drinking the Marshall Kool Aid and he could totally flounder, but I think his ceiling is off the charts. Besides, if he was the flawless player we all desire he'd be a top 3 pick and it wouldn't matter what Portland thought of him.

[Norm2953]

It would be interesting to see how Mike Bjorn (sp?) thinks about the college
players available in this draft.

The thing is though we really can't make any plans until we know for sure if
we get the Nets pick. Wiz said a while back Portland would probably move
the Net's pick if they got to keep the pick. That future pick might bring
back a nice rotation player since our cap space would allow us to absorb
salary if need be.

[Downtown]

If Portland gets the Nets pick I would take a long look at Sullinger. If he's over 6'10" in shoes I would consider him as a possible center candidate. With his sturdy build we know he can handle the physical part of the interior game. I honestly don't care if he doesn't have that "above the rim" game. Neither does Marc Gasol or Zach Randolph and look how effective they are inside.

From reading about the latest group workout, it looks like a couple darkhorse prospects have emerged. Both Dion Waiters, a combo guard who was ranked in the low twenties in most mocks, and Kyle O"Quinn, a center/power forward who was either ranked in the mid second round or not ranked at all, have apparently impressed.

I'm looking forward to seeing which non mainstream prospects showcase themselves well. I would love to see the Blazers find that hidden gem and somehow parlay their two second round picks into finding that player by moving up a little. Is the next Serge Ibaka, Isiah Thomas, or perhaps Iman Shumpert somewhere to be found further down the ladder?

[Blaze01]

It's better to withhold judgement on the players until they are here to workout for
the team. If we don't get NJ's pick, we're likely to be picking BPA for Lillard and
Marshall are likely to be gone.

You got invited to the workouts?



DeBlazer, you make some good points. But I have never bought into the justification of poor shooting due to high volume. Seems like a PG that shoots poorly should realize he shoots poorly and focus more on setting up teammates.

I think Marshall recognized his role early in the year. He had Jones, Barnes and Zeller to defer to and he served his team better than almost any PG before him. Down the stretch, when the need arose for him to score, he proved he could score at a solid clip, all the while still setting up teammates very well.

Yeah, I am drinking the Marshall Kool Aid and he could totally flounder, but I think his ceiling is off the charts. Besides, if he was the flawless player we all desire he'd be a top 3 pick and it wouldn't matter what Portland thought of him.

He (Marhsall) is compared to Andre Miller which IMO is entirely inaccurate...first off a large part of Miller's success is his craftiness on offense, he has a wide array of moves to score\get his shot off...which Marshall does not have....You can be the greatest passer in the world (and I think people are overating his passing ability) but it doesn't mean **** if you can't create scoring opportunities for other players....I can totally see teams playing off him and forcing him to beat them from outside and I don't think he is quick\crafty\talented enough to find ways to slip inside\drive to the hoop and create scoring opportunities for himself or be able to consistently find open looks for his teamates IMO...nor does the current Blazer team incorporate cuts\screens nearly enough...

and furthermore as it relates to POR, he would be a bad pick...because POR needs scorers first and foremost...One of the major problems POR had last year was inconsistency in scoring...too many long droughts...because outside of LA...you never knew what you were gong to get from Batum, Matthews, Felton & Crawford, many times they couldn't hit open shots and were incapable of creating offense for themselves or others...and when teams double teamed LA, we were screwed....

POR needs to draft\sign players who can consistently create scoring opportunities for themselves...that needs to be addressed first and foremost...that needs to be the FOCUS...not a PG...It doesn't matter who the PG is if the guys around him cannot hit shots...That is what makes teams like OKC so damm effective...Westbrook\Harden can both create shots for themselves\others...making double teaming Durant very hard to do. POR does not have that, not even close to that....they need to find that first, at LEAST one more player who can do that...

[Blaze01]

I like Kyle O'Quinn alot as a sleeper type big man to bring in...Unfortunately he may end up going late 1st\early 2nd...meaning POR would likely have to trade up to get him (which I would not be opposed to them doing)....

That is exactly why I question wasting a pick on Zeller\Leonard in the lottery when you could get a guy like O'Quinn, Henry Sims, Robert Sacre or Mitchell Watt in the 2nd...Any of those guys could be as good or better than Zeller\Leonard and at a much better value...

[Blazinaway]

I like Kyle O'Quinn alot as a sleeper type big man to bring in...Unfortunately he may end up going late 1st\early 2nd...meaning POR would likely have to trade up to get him (which I would not be opposed to them doing)....

That is exactly why I question wasting a pick on Zeller\Leonard in the lottery when you could get a guy like O'Quinn, Henry Sims, Robert Sacre or Mitchell Watt in the 2nd...Any of those guys could be as good or better than Zeller\Leonard and at a much better value...

Agree, and I would add fab melo to the late 1st rd choices

[Blaze01]

I was going to put him on that list, although specualtion is that he will rise and go mid 1st...even a chance at the tail end of the lottery if he works out well...

[Walton'sBeard!]

It's better to withhold judgement on the players until they are here to workout for
the team. If we don't get NJ's pick, we're likely to be picking BPA for Lillard and
Marshall are likely to be gone.

You got invited to the workouts?



DeBlazer, you make some good points. But I have never bought into the justification of poor shooting due to high volume. Seems like a PG that shoots poorly should realize he shoots poorly and focus more on setting up teammates.

I think Marshall recognized his role early in the year. He had Jones, Barnes and Zeller to defer to and he served his team better than almost any PG before him. Down the stretch, when the need arose for him to score, he proved he could score at a solid clip, all the while still setting up teammates very well.

Yeah, I am drinking the Marshall Kool Aid and he could totally flounder, but I think his ceiling is off the charts. Besides, if he was the flawless player we all desire he'd be a top 3 pick and it wouldn't matter what Portland thought of him.

He (Marhsall) is compared to Andre Miller which IMO is entirely inaccurate...first off a large part of Miller's success is his craftiness on offense, he has a wide array of moves to score\get his shot off...which Marshall does not have....You can be the greatest passer in the world (and I think people are overating his passing ability) but it doesn't mean **** if you can't create scoring opportunities for other players....I can totally see teams playing off him and forcing him to beat them from outside and I don't think he is quick\crafty\talented enough to find ways to slip inside\drive to the hoop and create scoring opportunities for himself or be able to consistently find open looks for his teamates IMO...nor does the current Blazer team incorporate cuts\screens nearly enough...

and furthermore as it relates to POR, he would be a bad pick...because POR needs scorers first and foremost...One of the major problems POR had last year was inconsistency in scoring...too many long droughts...because outside of LA...you never knew what you were gong to get from Batum, Matthews, Felton & Crawford, many times they couldn't hit open shots and were incapable of creating offense for themselves or others...and when teams double teamed LA, we were screwed....

POR needs to draft\sign players who can consistently create scoring opportunities for themselves...that needs to be addressed first and foremost...that needs to be the FOCUS...not a PG...It doesn't matter who the PG is if the guys around him cannot hit shots...That is what makes teams like OKC so damm effective...Westbrook\Harden can both create shots for themselves\others...making double teaming Durant very hard to do. POR does not have that, not even close to that....they need to find that first, at LEAST one more player who can do that...

I haven't seen him compared to Miller, but since you brought it up... Marshall has shown he can score when there is a need, as there was in the ACC tourney and March Madness. Plus he has better range than Miller ever had. While I agree that Portland needs another great scorer, I disagree that PG is the spot to look for that scorer. I prefer a fascilitator from that position, like Rondo. Furthermore, will there be a great scorer available at #11 (the highest I would pick Marshall)? If there is a great scorer available at #11 then I might pass on Marshall and take that scorer instead, but I don't think Lamb or Rivers will locks to be great scorers.