Disappointing Paul George?

[granger05]

This insider article by John Hollinger about players who have seen their stock fall in the playoffs includes Paul George.

Paul George, Pacers: I'm a huge George fan and thought he'd be the breakout star of the playoffs. Well, maybe some other year. Granted, going up against Dwyane Wade and LeBron James this round is tough. On the other hand, half his playoff games were against the mighty Richardson clan of Orlando, and he has a postseason playoff efficiency rating of 13.12. In the pantheon of Indiana playoff Georges, he's been more McCloud than McGinnis.

George hasn't been bad, mind you, but his performance is a negative from a big-picture perspective. Indiana's only chance of getting a superstar with this group is if George turns into one himself or gets good enough to be the main piece in a trade for one. His playoff performance to date makes both those scenarios seem less likely.

I agree with this and I've been a bit disappointed in him this postseason as well. In this Miami series he's playing good defense against the best players in the world so I understand that his energy is being expended there, but I still expected more from him. He just doesn't seem to have aggressive instincts. He gets lazy with his passes early in the game which is really frustrating. They seem to rely on him to be the guy to feed the ball into the post and sometimes he doesn't get that done in a way that sets up the post players well or lead directly to turnovers. He's also had too many attempts right at the rim where he hasn't been assertive enough. He was in the dunk contest, he can throw it down and that's what he should be doing. He seems uncomfortable going for the dunk when he expects contact.

I still love me some Paul George and some of this disappointment is likely due to high expectations. I want him to take the next step of being a guy that you can run your offense through. Maybe he picks it up with Granger and West hobbled? Here's hoping.

[granger05]

Barbosa was in the list too:

Leandro Barbosa, Pacers: Brought in as their instant-offense guy, Barbosa has been more like instant quicksand. He's yet to score more than 10 points in a game; he's drawn 12 free throw attempts in 10 games; he's shooting 3-of-19 on 3s. The only parts where he's lived up to expectations is that he still doesn't pass and he's still getting torched on defense.

Barbosa's 6.56 PER is the second-worst of any player with 200 playoff minutes, just 0.05 behind a one-handed Caron Butler. His timing couldn't be worse, as his five-year, $33 million deal expires after the season, and he'll be angling for free-agent nibbles. After spending most of the year hiding north of the border in Toronto, he needed a big postseason to remind people of his scoring potency. Instead he's reminding them that it's a bad, bad idea to ask him to guard Dwyane Wade.

The Pacers had a couple players on the list of rising playoff performers as well (that article was back on Tuesday):

Darren Collison, Pacers
Among players with at least 100 playoff minutes, the top four in player efficiency rating are LeBron James, Russell Westbrook, Durant and Tim Duncan. You know who's fifth? Darren Collison!

It's true; he's been a huge catalyst for an otherwise deficient Indiana second unit throughout the postseason, helping himself immensely as he heads into extension talks this summer.

The best part is that he's showing signs of finally getting this whole point guard thing. Collision had 23 assists and just one turnover in Indy's first-round series against Orlando. While he hasn't maintained that pace against Miami, he's also knocking down shots left and right (53.8 percent for the playoffs, with a high free throw rate). Collison is quick and can shoot, and his speed and zeal on defense make up for a lack of size. If he can run an offense as well as he's done in the playoffs, he's a long-term starter who may cash in this summer.

Roy Hibbert, Pacers
It's gonna be an expensive summer in Indy, because joining Collison at the cash register is fellow restricted free agent Hibbert. The All-Star big man has shown his value in the second round, with his immense presence at the rim largely negating the slashing of Miami's James and Dwyane Wade. He's controlling the boards too; for the playoffs he's averaging 11.4 boards and 3.1 blocks, including yanking down 18 rebounds in Indy's Game 3 win.

Hibbert's limitation is that stamina and fouls keep him to about 30 minutes a night, although that makes his per-game numbers even more impressive -- he has the league's second-highest rebound rate in the playoffs, for instance, trailing only the Clippers' Reggie Evans among players who played at least 100 minutes.

For those 30 minutes he's become a poor man's Yao Ming -- he's the tallest guy on the floor every night, he has a soft touch on hooks and turnarounds and he's still improving. Throw in his zest for blocks and rebounds, and it's a tough combo to stop ... and a costly one to keep.

[Miller4ever]

Barbosa has been a disappointment. Offensively, George hasn't done much, but he's focusing on defense right now. Hollinger's metrics can't accurately measure that (if anything).

[Pacersike]

I like to believe he is using a lot of energy to try to defend those 6'4" SGs: Wade and Redick.
That is comparable with Hibbert trying to defend Baby Davis, who is also about 5 inches shorter.
That and the fact Wade defends him a lot. My expectations in those circumstances just weren't that high.
I agree he needs to get the killer attitude Granger for example is showcasing.

Barbosa should never be defending Wade without knee problems and again my expectations for him weren't that high.

Collison was a great backup in New Orleans and a great starter when CP3 was injured. He wouldn't be the first to struggle when there actually isn't a great PG on the bench. It really isn't that surprising he found his groove back as the backup nor is he a free agent this summer.

Hibbert... I just watch different games than most people. Giving up all those easy floaters and midrange shots. No, I really don't get the value of that

[DWCP2]

Paul George love him to death but lets face facts here, he's a good 2 years away from being near Danny Granger's level of play offensively and defensively.

To me, I would consider trading him this summer even for the likes of Eric Gordon. Gordon, Granger, Hibbert would be a solid 3 pack combo that can play together successfully for 6-7 years and the only player you have to replace along the way would be Granger, but as he gets older, his role will change as Hibbert steps forward or some other big they can get to step in.

[Miller4ever]

No.

George is better than Granger ever was on defense. I don't see Granger going 7 years solidly, and I can see Gordon's injury problems becoming a real issue.

[Miller4ever]

Hibbert... I just watch different games than most people. Giving up all those easy floaters and midrange shots. No, I really don't get the value of that

As opposed to...dunks and layups? Like in Game 4?

[Wizop]

have to hope Paul George learns a lot from playing on the select team. he needs to be a much more accurate passer and much better ball handler but he's young.

as for DC and Barbosa, if I were coaching tonight, I'd shorten the rotation and leave Barbosa out. that puts DC and GH on the floor together for the minutes PG sits or plays 3, but Wade should find GH tougher to get around than Barbosa who seems to have learned to defend at a Brazilian bull fight. playing Dahntay at 2 would also be an option provided he doesn't have to play a lot of Danny's minutes because of the injury.

longer term I would not resign Barbosa. I would sign Hibbert and Hill. I'd hope either this year or next the draft would give me a replacement for Dahntay so I can let his deal expire.

[Miller4ever]

Barbosa has really not panned out.

[granger05]

I'm not too down on Barbosa. He was a "basically free" bench player. I like that he's aggressive even if it is too a fault. I see people stating that the refs will really crack down on contact in tonight's game and that this will really benefit players that attack the rim. Barbosa is our one player that attacks all the time. He takes dumb shots, but he also goes to the basket. I could still see him swinging a game in our favor.

[Pacersike]

Hibbert... I just watch different games than most people. Giving up all those easy floaters and midrange shots. No, I really don't get the value of that

As opposed to...dunks and layups? Like in Game 4?

Pest or cholera. I don't get it and I doubt I ever will.

Sure, he gets a lot of rebounds, but how many times does he set a useful pick or does he defend it?
If you stay within a couple of feet of the ring most of the time, it seems logical u can get many boards.

[Miller4ever]

Roy Hibbert has the 3rd best defensive rating in these playoffs, right behind Garnett and Duncan. When you compare Hibbert to the rest of the team, when he's on the floor, we do way better. That logic that if you're close to the basket you get rebounds doesn't apply to a lot of people.

[Wizop]

and last I looked Paul's +/- was even better than Roy's although game 5 could have killed them both. the networks were praising Roy for being +30 at a time Paul was plus 48.

I sure can't see why one would trade a 2nd year player because he was two years away from his potential. then again I'm old enough to remember when we traded Alex English to get an aging George McGinnis back from Denver.

[Pacersike]

Roy Hibbert has the 3rd best defensive rating in these playoffs, right behind Garnett and Duncan. When you compare Hibbert to the rest of the team, when he's on the floor, we do way better. That logic that if you're close to the basket you get rebounds doesn't apply to a lot of people.

How do they measure defensive rating?
I'm not a proponent of trying to capture complex things into 1 stat, but if he has indeed 3rd best defensive rating, all I can say is that I don't see it on the court.

[Miller4ever]

Understandable. He rebounds to finish possessions, and he alters so many shots, something that isn't always obvious. When David West was failing to get into a rhythm last game, Battier was altering his shots. Hibbert alters a lot of shots just like that, making gimmes into challenging shots.

Defensive rating is measured by how many points per 100 possessions your opponent scores while you are on the floor. League average is 104.something. Hibbert has been over this average only twice in the playoffs, and that's in the last two losses. For the playoffs he's got a 92 defensive rating. The lower the better.

[Pacersike]

Is it the same as this one:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... stats.html
Where he is behind Amundson and many others?

I tried to find the one for the playoffs, but I couldn't find it.

Who are his opponents? The players he has to defend or the players he ends up defending?

[Miller4ever]

Taking out matchups and boiling it down to team impact is part of it.

If you look at the difference between offensive and defensive rating, you can sort of work out how well a team does with them on the floor and without them. Hibbert's rotations mirror a couple of other players on the roster, but he is better than they are. When Roy Hibbert is on the floor, we score better and defend better. Same is true of Paul George. Just talking about this series.

Hibbert's opponent is the entire opposing lineup.

[Pacersike]

Seems like much of the same flaws as +/-

Thanks for clarifying though.

[Miller4ever]

It takes out one of the biggest flaws in +/-. Instead of benefiting or hurting from pace and general rotation, it adjusts for pace and separates the two impacts into two separate ratings, and standardizes the rating, something plus/minus can't do as well.

[DWCP2]

Yeah well from what I'm seeing of him he can't be trusted with the ball, Granger is solid as ever and even George Hill is more solid offensively in the playoffs then George!