Jonas Valanciunas Summer Discussion Thread (Olympics!)

[ATLTimekeeper]

Donut saying that Houston not a sure thing.

http://www.lithuaniabasketball.com/news-913-motiejunas-i-dont-want-to-just-sit-on-the-bench.html

As it stands now, they do seem to be fairly deep at that position. Scola, Parsons, Pat Pat, Morris are all in the mix.

Some good comments on Europeans prospects leaving their home country to develop.

[xprt]

His athleticism is above average for an NBA starting center. Here's some starting centers that are more athletic than him, maybe you can add to the list but you're be hard pressed to find 15:

Biyombo
Noah
Chandler
Howard
Bynum
McGee
Jordan
Nene
Maybe Horford

He's definitely not below average. How many of those centers can hit a jump shot? Two? Three? How many have an effective hook off both blocks? Three? Four? How many can hit free throws over 80 percent? None. How many can hit free throws above 65%? 5. How many have shown a face up game? Three? Four? How many of those guys are over 6"11? Three? Four? How many of those guys regularly face double teams? Four? Among the athletes, he has an advantage of skill and length.

Solid post...
It is very encouraging to look at it this way.
I would only say 3 players are elite out of that list: Howard, Bynum, Chandler
Val already has equal skill/size sets with the rest and he can surpass them eventually.
Those 3 are hard to touch though.

Since when Chandler is elite? He mostly of his career was average center

[team edward]

No

Not even the best raptor comparison. I would call Val the Lithuanian Amir Johnson. Much closer in playing style offensively and defensively. And that is not a slight towards Val as a bigger stronger better shooting Amir Johnson is a stud.

Maybe you're right, I guess from the clips we've seen there hasn't been much in the way of a face up game as Val is mostly a pnr guy. If Amir was 7 feet tall, didn't get 7 fouls per 36 minutes and could hit an open jumper and all of his free throws, then I guess he would be pretty good as these are major weaknesses in his game. If that's the case, then neither Amir nor Bosh is a good comparison.

The things that will make him above average are that he has excellent technique and hands. His foul shooting alone is going to make him an above average center in the NBA.

Well maybe, but only if he gets to the line at least at an average rate, and all of this other skills as an NBA centre are at least average ... which probably won't be true for at least a year or two considering he gets backed down by guys who wouldn't get minutes for the Fort Wayne Fury.

And anyone saying that Vals pick and roll game won't translate to the NBA is talking out their rectum. Pick and Roll is about technique and understanding when to move. Val is going to be excellent at it because of his length and the way he keeps ball high, and when teams foul him to prevent easy baskets he is excellent at the line.

This is the hope. Of course we need a great PnR point guard to go with him. someone like ... Calderon...???

[FTW]

I mean.....simply give Andris Biedrins slightly better hands and the ability to hit FTs at a 75%-80% clip and take the occasional FG out to 16 feet. (Val has highlights where he's even hit the 3 on occasion but let's not count that.) Can we agree that, at the very minimum, Jonas seems to have those advantages over him?

Suddenly, Biedrins turns into a very attractive player in the NBA - a guy who's no longer so deathly afraid of getting fouled that it hugely impacts his game. (We're talking about a guy who went from 216 FTs drawn in 62 games a few years back, to having 9 drawn in 47 games this year, making 1...it would be laughable how scared he is to get fouled, if it wasn't so sad.)

Dr. Mufasa, do you really see Jonas as being less of a player than Biedrins? We're talking about a guy who has holes in his game that you could drive a tank through - and he's still playing NBA ball, 6 or 7 years later. What advantages do you see Biedrins having over Jonas whereby you can state that Biedrins will have had the longer/better career?

[raptor21_85]

Donatas still has chances in Houston, Camby is expiring and Dalembert has a team option.. Parsons is SF.. it doesnt make sense, either... all those players have contract until 2015.. Donatas has to decide asap, come over to Houston, and fight for the starting spot

[FTW]

Since when Chandler is elite? He mostly of his career was average center

If you don't think Tyson Chandler is now an elite centre in the NBA, you have some serious, serious, serious problems with your basketball evaluation module.

[dagger]

Since when Chandler is elite? He mostly of his career was average center

If you don't think Tyson Chandler is now an elite centre in the NBA, you have some serious, serious, serious problems with your basketball evaluation module.

He's a top defensive C right now, but his offence is always going to be wanting, and the poster's comment that most of his career was average is not unreasonable. A couple of years ago, he was so good Charlotte basically gave him away for nothing in one of Michael Jordan's dumber moves, and he's had several doozies.

[nahom1319]

I think the fact that Chandler is considered elite is a testament to how weak the position is in the nba. Outside of Dwight and Bynum none of them are a threat to score. Defensively we have a ton of solid guys but few that are outstanding: Dwight and Chandler. Alot of the centres in the league are youngesters learning the ropes or middling centers at best.

That is why I think Jonas has a good chance to be a top 5-8 center in this league eventually. He has a knack for scoring baskets and can rebound very well. I think if you give him 2-3 seasons with Casey and let him grow into his body, he'll be a great starting point to building a playoff contending roster.

[xprt]

Since when Chandler is elite? He mostly of his career was average center

If you don't think Tyson Chandler is now an elite centre in the NBA, you have some serious, serious, serious problems with your basketball evaluation module.

He's a top defensive C right now, but his offence is always going to be wanting, and the poster's comment that most of his career was average is not unreasonable. A couple of years ago, he was so good Charlotte basically gave him away for nothing in one of Michael Jordan's dumber moves, and he's had several doozies.

Yes I am talking about his career in 11 seasons he 3 times averaged more than 10 ppg and 2 times more than 10 rpg. That isn't elite. He also never was allstar.Before Dallas he was considered contract year player ( sucked but last year of contract ). His defence is overrated too. He isnt great shotblocker nor a rebounder. It funny how C with <10 rpg and like 1 bpg can win DPOY. I bet if he didnt won a ring with Dallas noone would be talking how good of defender he is.

[FTW]

You asked "since when." You can't ask "since when" and then claim the defence of "career numbers!" The answer is, "since he became an elite NBA defensive C within the last couple years."

In my opinion, you should start watching NBA games. Chandler is the definition of a player who has an impact that isn't measured in per-game stats.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Since when Chandler is elite? He mostly of his career was average center

If you don't think Tyson Chandler is now an elite centre in the NBA, you have some serious, serious, serious problems with your basketball evaluation module.

He's a top defensive C right now, but his offence is always going to be wanting, and the poster's comment that most of his career was average is not unreasonable. A couple of years ago, he was so good Charlotte basically gave him away for nothing in one of Michael Jordan's dumber moves, and he's had several doozies.

Not to mention the rescinded OKC trade, where New Orleans gave him up for Joe Smith and Chris Wilcox.

Chandler is basically the resident beast defender at this stage in his career, but he's never been a dominant two-way player.

[defstarcon]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXvjT_vw1UI&list=FLM_NOuiRFMfiEG364hiMpVg&index=2&feature=plpp_video[/youtube]

nuff said...

[UcanUwill]

↑ That song's the worst, there is nothing worse... Oh, and typical Donuts' interview, he wants to prove himself, but demands guaranteed minutes at first. That guy is also the worst. End transmission.

[raptor21_85]

Ucan is like Mufasa (Version Motiejunas)...

i hope someone comes up with a new mix of Jonas coming over to Toronto

[UcanUwill]

Ucan is like Mufasa (Version Motiejunas)...

i hope someone comes up with a new mix of Jonas coming over to Toronto

The only difference, I used to be a big Motiejunas supporter, but man, he turned out to be spoiled awful player. He broke my heart People who hypes him annoys me, IMO he doesn't deserved any praise, thats my problem.

[lolwut]

People considered Enes Kanter to be athletic.

Val is much more athletic than Kanter.

[raptor21_85]

you should know more.. but situation in Houston is quite difficult.. they have Scola, an other young bigs.. if Donatas doesnt come over to Houston now, i just see them trading the rights to other team.. (I can see Scola being untradeable ala Calderon)

[Dr Positivity]

I mean.....simply give Andris Biedrins slightly better hands and the ability to hit FTs at a 75%-80% clip and take the occasional FG out to 16 feet. (Val has highlights where he's even hit the 3 on occasion but let's not count that.) Can we agree that, at the very minimum, Jonas seems to have those advantages over him?

Suddenly, Biedrins turns into a very attractive player in the NBA - a guy who's no longer so deathly afraid of getting fouled that it hugely impacts his game. (We're talking about a guy who went from 216 FTs drawn in 62 games a few years back, to having 9 drawn in 47 games this year, making 1...it would be laughable how scared he is to get fouled, if it wasn't so sad.)

Dr. Mufasa, do you really see Jonas as being less of a player than Biedrins? We're talking about a guy who has holes in his game that you could drive a tank through - and he's still playing NBA ball, 6 or 7 years later. What advantages do you see Biedrins having over Jonas whereby you can state that Biedrins will have had the longer/better career?

I'm just going to try and avoid this thread from now on, but since I was addressed, I do not like the Biedrins comparison. Pre draft Biedrins was closer to Biyombo than JV to me. He was a freak athletically with seemingly no ball skills. Look if people believe JV is a Noah, Chandler, Biedrins type of athlete and "much more athletic than Kanter" then nothing I'm going to say is going to convince you, we'll just have to wait until he plays in the NBA

edit - To the below poster. There is nothing good that can come out of me responding to a bunch of posts. It's the rough equivalent of me going onto a U2 forum and posting in all their threads about how they are one of the most bizarrely overrated bands of all time (note: This is true). If Valanciunas is a future top 10 C you can make fun of me forever. I like this place too much to pull a BorisDK1 and just disappear in shame if I'm wrong. So for now, bye.

[xprt]

Trade Kleiza for Donuts rights imagine Leo Rautins going crazy at 3 7ft's
Btw just found Jonas 3 pointer from all star game
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3wPCPNOC9w[/youtube]

[realball]

I mean.....simply give Andris Biedrins slightly better hands and the ability to hit FTs at a 75%-80% clip and take the occasional FG out to 16 feet. (Val has highlights where he's even hit the 3 on occasion but let's not count that.) Can we agree that, at the very minimum, Jonas seems to have those advantages over him?

Suddenly, Biedrins turns into a very attractive player in the NBA - a guy who's no longer so deathly afraid of getting fouled that it hugely impacts his game. (We're talking about a guy who went from 216 FTs drawn in 62 games a few years back, to having 9 drawn in 47 games this year, making 1...it would be laughable how scared he is to get fouled, if it wasn't so sad.)

Dr. Mufasa, do you really see Jonas as being less of a player than Biedrins? We're talking about a guy who has holes in his game that you could drive a tank through - and he's still playing NBA ball, 6 or 7 years later. What advantages do you see Biedrins having over Jonas whereby you can state that Biedrins will have had the longer/better career?

I'm just going to try and avoid this thread from now on, but since I was addressed, I do not like the Biedrins comparison. Pre draft Biedrins was closer to Biyombo than JV to me. He was a freak athletically with seemingly no ball skills. Look if people believe JV is a Noah, Chandler, Biedrins type of athlete and "much more athletic than Kanter" then nothing I'm going to say is going to convince you, we'll just have to wait until he plays in the NBA

Wait, so you think Biedrins was like Biyombo coming in to the draft? You think that skinny, lanky Biedrins was a 7-foot version of the freakishly muscular Biyombo? Seriously?

And have you seen Kanter play? I thought he was supposedly a decent athlete too coming out of the draft (apparently he ran the sprint like a guard), but having seen him in the NBA, the guy is slow as molasses and has zero lift. The biggest thing about Val that scouts have been raving about and is quite evident in his highlights is that he has a fantastic motor. You have to pretty much be blind to compare them as athletes. Val is clearly nowhere near Chandler as an athlete, but comparing him to Kanter? C'mon man.

I really don't understand why you have been so pessimistic about Val. You basically dismiss any statistical evidence showing that he's great (or better than Leonard). Then you turn around and try to make everyone else look stubborn by saying things like "if you think so and so, there is nothing I can say to convince you". The truth is that there's nothing that anybody can say that will convince YOU.