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Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition)

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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition 

Post#1041 » by G-Heel » Tue May 29, 2012 6:52 pm

eyriq wrote:Do you play NBA video games? My running hypothesis is that the anti-Anderson/anti-advanced stats crowd is highly informed by their video game experience. I can think of no other reason for Ellis hype and Anderson hate (just to make a quaint example of what is a much broader trend), or the complete disregard for the offensive players that we already have on roster.

rcklsscognition wrote:We do not have scorers in the sense that NBA fans use the term. There is no one on our team that can create their own offense with the exception of JJ at times.


Here's why, in my opinion, Ryno isn't good. He can't play a lick of defense, that's half the game right there! It's not like he's a PG whose defense isn't as important. PFs are enforcers, but Ryan is soft. He's easily shut down, all you have to do is stick to him, then he can't do anything else. He's a no show for three straight playoffs, I don't care how he does in the regular season, you can win 82 games but that doesn't mean jack if you can't win in the playoffs.

He can't get much better at shooting the ball, so he has to improve his other skills to be a good player. Things he needs to improve are too many and I don't see the skills or intensity in him to risk signing him 8-10 mil a year and hope that he improves. He's a solid role player, and I'm not against keeping him, but we're screwed if he give him more than 7 mil a year. If we already have a great 2nd option, then I wouldn't mind paying him, but since we don't we need to be wise with our cap so we can get one this summer or next.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition 

Post#1042 » by arkknight1988 » Tue May 29, 2012 6:54 pm

MoMM wrote:MagicalNBA ‏@MagicalNBA
I'll be surprised if Jameer, JJ or RA return.

Ouch!!!

if only turk could leave with them...
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition 

Post#1043 » by glennathan » Tue May 29, 2012 6:56 pm

arkknight1988 wrote:
MoMM wrote:MagicalNBA ‏@MagicalNBA
I'll be surprised if Jameer, JJ or RA return.

Ouch!!!

if only turk could leave with them...


And Duhon... He has to go as well.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition 

Post#1044 » by mhectorgato » Tue May 29, 2012 7:01 pm

glennathan wrote:
arkknight1988 wrote:
MoMM wrote:MagicalNBA ‏@MagicalNBA
I'll be surprised if Jameer, JJ or RA return.

Ouch!!!

if only turk could leave with them...


And Duhon... He has to go as well.


And JRich.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition 

Post#1045 » by trebone » Tue May 29, 2012 7:04 pm

^ exactly, instead of Jameer, JJ, and Anderson probably gone how in the hell can we still have Doodie, Jbroke, and Turkypoo coming back???
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition 

Post#1046 » by arkknight1988 » Tue May 29, 2012 7:05 pm

in fact, anyone that otis has aquired the past 2 seasons needs to be waived/traded. we haven't been on the right track in a while.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition 

Post#1047 » by rcklsscognition » Tue May 29, 2012 7:09 pm

eyriq wrote:You purposefully held back Ryno's scoring so that Wafer would hold the higher point total, didn't you?!!!

Seriously though, great post. I can see where you are coming from, and I probably only disagree about Dwight's offense in the post which from there we see the offensive design needing to go in slightly different directions. BUT I really like how you qualify different offensive options within a players skill-set, which allows the "Ryan is one-dimensional" comment to make more sense. I'm guessing that option A is a FGA off the catch, B a FGA off the dribble, and C an assist? Each option would then have contained levels of difficulty, allowing for effectiveness to vary from player to player, option to option. I like it!


Yes, I set it so Ryan had to guard Ty Lawson and he broke his ankle in the 1st quarter letting Wafer score at will.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsuAuE__H_k[/youtube] :lol:

C in my mind is an assist in addition to some other nonsense. This may not make much sense, but I'll give it a go. C is not just an assist because sometimes you can get bailed out on an assist when the shooter makes a miracle shot on an otherwise bad play. So C is more like a quality assist, given during a play where's things get reset and work smoothly again because of the player that has the ball. So what you see play out on the Magic is they lack consistent C players, players that when a play gets mangled, can execute from wherever the play gets whacked and still run a play and score.

Can Ryan run a play when he gets the pass and the 3 is defended well? Heck no he can't! He may get an assist on a dump off, or a late second shot, but consistently, he's not doing anything for our offense in this fashion. Dwight shows signs of having some of this ability, but like I said in my first post there, I think there is a certain limitation to the amount of ways the 5 spot can be utilized on a given play. I don't think it's necessarily a Dwight limitation, but more of the 5 spot. I'm not sure how a different offense and different players around Dwight would fix this, so I'll be very interested in next season and looking how things change for Dwight.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition 

Post#1048 » by meatwad4343 » Tue May 29, 2012 7:10 pm

tommorow is the big day. if the nets keep their pick, dwight is a good as gone by draft day imo.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition 

Post#1049 » by ADRajX » Tue May 29, 2012 7:13 pm

Why don't we just waive Hedo and Duhon :evil: (I know we can't do that, but I'm just pissed we waived Wafer... so dumb).
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition 

Post#1050 » by rcklsscognition » Tue May 29, 2012 7:18 pm

meatwad4343 wrote:tommorow is the big day. if the nets keep their pick, dwight is a good as gone by draft day imo.


Curious, what are your trades given the following scenarios?

Nets get #1
Nets get #2
Nets get #3
Nets get 4 or higher.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition 

Post#1051 » by GameOver25 » Tue May 29, 2012 7:32 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:
eyriq wrote:You purposefully held back Ryno's scoring so that Wafer would hold the higher point total, didn't you?!!!

Seriously though, great post. I can see where you are coming from, and I probably only disagree about Dwight's offense in the post which from there we see the offensive design needing to go in slightly different directions. BUT I really like how you qualify different offensive options within a players skill-set, which allows the "Ryan is one-dimensional" comment to make more sense. I'm guessing that option A is a FGA off the catch, B a FGA off the dribble, and C an assist? Each option would then have contained levels of difficulty, allowing for effectiveness to vary from player to player, option to option. I like it!


Yes, I set it so Ryan had to guard Ty Lawson and he broke his ankle in the 1st quarter letting Wafer score at will.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsuAuE__H_k[/youtube] :lol:

C in my mind is an assist in addition to some other nonsense. This may not make much sense, but I'll give it a go. C is not just an assist because sometimes you can get bailed out on an assist when the shooter makes a miracle shot on an otherwise bad play. So C is more like a quality assist, given during a play where's things get reset and work smoothly again because of the player that has the ball. So what you see play out on the Magic is they lack consistent C players, players that when a play gets mangled, can execute from wherever the play gets whacked and still run a play and score.

Can Ryan run a play when he gets the pass and the 3 is defended well? Heck no he can't! He may get an assist on a dump off, or a late second shot, but consistently, he's not doing anything for our offense in this fashion. Dwight shows signs of having some of this ability, but like I said in my first post there, I think there is a certain limitation to the amount of ways the 5 spot can be utilized on a given play. I don't think it's necessarily a Dwight limitation, but more of the 5 spot. I'm not sure how a different offense and different players around Dwight would fix this, so I'll be very interested in next season and looking how things change for Dwight.


That clip ouch...
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition 

Post#1052 » by meatwad4343 » Tue May 29, 2012 7:35 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:
meatwad4343 wrote:tommorow is the big day. if the nets keep their pick, dwight is a good as gone by draft day imo.


Curious, what are your trades given the following scenarios?

Nets get #1
Nets get #2
Nets get #3
Nets get 4 or higher.


well the nets won't get the pick if it's 4 or higher since it's top 3 protected, but if it's #3 i think something around dwight and hedo for #3 (drummond or MKG) a resigned lopez and brooks. if it's #2 the same trade minus brooks, and if it's #1 then dwight and duhon for davis and lopez. just some ideas you can mix pieces around however. i know a lot of people don't like lopez and i wouldn't want him for anything more than 12 mil a year, but we could flip him easy still to a team like houston and get lowry and some other pieces or trade him to get back in the lottery.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition 

Post#1053 » by Darth Magic » Tue May 29, 2012 7:42 pm

Why the assumption that the Nets getting a top 3 pick automatically means that the Magic trade them Dwight?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition 

Post#1054 » by meatwad4343 » Tue May 29, 2012 7:43 pm

Darth Magic wrote:Why the assumption that the Nets getting a top 3 pick automatically means that the Magic trade them Dwight?


i'm a pessimist and think he still wants out and we're just waiting for the draft lottery to decide if we're trading him to the lakers or the nets. just my theory i'm probably wrong though. hopefully.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition 

Post#1055 » by glennathan » Tue May 29, 2012 7:44 pm

meatwad4343 wrote:
rcklsscognition wrote:
meatwad4343 wrote:tommorow is the big day. if the nets keep their pick, dwight is a good as gone by draft day imo.


Curious, what are your trades given the following scenarios?

Nets get #1
Nets get #2
Nets get #3
Nets get 4 or higher.


well the nets won't get the pick if it's 4 or higher since it's top 3 protected, but if it's #3 i think something around dwight and hedo for #3 (drummond or MKG) a resigned lopez and brooks. if it's #2 the same trade minus brooks, and if it's #1 then dwight and duhon for davis and lopez. just some ideas you can mix pieces around however. i know a lot of people don't like lopez and i wouldn't want him for anything more than 12 mil a year, but we could flip him easy still to a team like houston and get lowry and some other pieces or trade him to get back in the lottery.


If we can make a trade with the Nets and it includes sending them Dwight then I would want them to take Duhon and Hedo as part of the package and we get Gerald Wallace in the deal somewhere.

My preference would be the Cavs scenario that was thrown about earlier in this thread.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition 

Post#1056 » by meatwad4343 » Tue May 29, 2012 7:47 pm

why would we need wallace? unless you want to flip him. if dwight is gone we're going to be a lottery team on the rebuild, a 31 year old wallace won't really do us any good. not to mention he'll probably be unhappy here on a losing team.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition 

Post#1057 » by Darth Magic » Tue May 29, 2012 7:49 pm

meatwad4343 wrote:
Darth Magic wrote:Why the assumption that the Nets getting a top 3 pick automatically means that the Magic trade them Dwight?


i'm a pessimist and think he still wants out and we're just waiting for the draft lottery to decide if we're trading him to the lakers or the nets. just my theory i'm probably wrong though. hopefully.


OK kool. I guess i still hope we keep Dwight and build around him. Not too enamored with the lottery. My thought process is, lets clear some cap space an reload with Ellis and Josh Smith.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition 

Post#1058 » by Bensational » Tue May 29, 2012 7:50 pm

eyriq wrote:You purposefully held back Ryno's scoring so that Wafer would hold the higher point total, didn't you?!!!

....

rcklsscognition wrote:I have a long history of ....


OT, but what's with the quotes on the bottom of the post? kinda makes it hard to know who you're replying to.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition 

Post#1059 » by MoMM » Tue May 29, 2012 7:53 pm

NJ will get #1, in the NBA its all set in terms of draft.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXIV: Offseason Edition 

Post#1060 » by MoMM » Tue May 29, 2012 7:54 pm

meatwad4343 wrote:why would we need wallace? unless you want to flip him. if dwight is gone we're going to be a lottery team on the rebuild, a 31 year old wallace won't really do us any good. not to mention he'll probably be unhappy here on a losing team.

At least he is an expiring after next season, Hedo and Duhon aren't.

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