Atlanta Hawks: On Josh Smith

[HMFFL]

Hawks not talking contract extension with Josh Smith: http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2012/05/25/a ... logs_hawks

[MaceCase]

It really is great to have MC because he truly understands the CBA and knows when to ask questions. Not surprisingly it was Sekou that started the whole "Josh can't get extended" nonsense in one of his blogs. Got a bit of distaste for this, if his agent tells him he can't get extended then that's one thing because he's obviously trusting him to know better but the fact that he's bitter over having the market set his previous deal years ago? Things like this seem to validate all those "rumors" about trades.

[Jamaaliver]

Smoove actually does have a point, that the Hawks made sure to take care of AL while allowing Smoove to beome a Restricted FA and getting an offer and simply matching.

I prefer Hoford; but considering their production is similar, I totally understand how Josh could see that as a slap in the face.

If there's a way we can trade Smoove straight-up for a Lottery pick, I think it will be in the best interest of both the team and the player.

We get a young prospect and cap relief, he gets to be the best player on a team that wants him.

(I think John Wall and Smoove would be a force in washington. They have enough young talent and need some established players to get their program off the ground.)

[Jamaaliver]

Also, I agree that MC is a pretty fantastic Beat writer. I've been saying for a while now that he has surpassed Sekou in my eyes. He's more substance than style. And man does he pull no punches in his analyses.

[MaceCase]

Smoove actually does have a point, that the Hawks made sure to take care of AL while allowing Smoove to beome a Restricted FA and getting an offer and simply matching.

I prefer Hoford; but considering their production is similar, I totally understand how Josh could see that as a slap in the face.

The problem I have with that is that Al is only making 2 million more over the life of his deal yet he has two All Star and an All NBA selection already on his resume. Letting him hit free agency would have been killer for the team because a team like Indiana could and would of damn near maxed him instead of going after David West. Having to match that would have been crazy for the rest of the team's salary and they were lucky they had the lockout looming making Al more likely to get locked up to a deal then than risk waiting and seeing what the new landscape looks like in the new CBA.

Josh simply didn't have a much of a market before his free agency and obviously during seeing as it took him forever to get an offer also. It's only a slap in the face if he has an inflated ego over his worth that doesn't jive with what the rest of what the NBA thinks. It's why he gets pissed off over getting criticized by fans. It's why he thinks the media, coaches, refs, and GMs have a political conspiracy against him.

It's why we hope that one summer he sits back and reflects and says "what am I good at?" and works to improve on that aspect rather trying to work at what he sucks at. He did this many moons ago when he went to go work with Dream and stopped taking jumpers. Without coincidence he made his first and only All Defense selection..........then he spends the next two summers working on his jumper and even going to that "Hoops Whisperer" hack telling him to launch away and boom, back to irrelevant in the eyes of the NBA. It all starts with him, if he just played up to his potential then there wouldn't be a single doubt in anyone's mind about him making these selections, getting paid, or being a household name on the national stage.

[Skyhawk1]

In Smith we have a good trade asset. At the same time, we have Horford and we desperately need a good C. This situation just makes way too much sense, but again, we are the Atlanta Hawks, where nothing works as supposed to.

[parson]

Smoove actually does have a point, that the Hawks made sure to take care of AL while allowing Smoove to beome a Restricted FA and getting an offer and simply matching.)

Really? He didn't insist on getting the most he could get? Horford didn't agree to a flat $12 million each year?

Smith made $400,000 more than Horford this year and will make $1.2 million more next year. Smith had to go outside to find out what his market value was. Hint: it wasn't all he wanted.

"Give me ALL I want ... and make it as peaceful as that guy who's being agreeable."

[parson]

Trade him for Andrew Bog... [sorry, old habit].

[waazup]

The Warriors would be extremely interested in Smoove. If we keep our #7 pick, we'll probably offer it for Smith. You guys would have to take Richard Jefferson or Biedrins though to make the numbers work.

Something like #7/Richard Jefferson/Dorrell Wright for Josh Smith.

[MaceCase]

Would probably prefer Biedrins with Dorell and the 7. Just a bit more cap friendly.

[parson]

Biedrins? Only if they add Klay Thompson and take Joe. Come on. 1.7 pts and 3.7 reb. in 15.7 min/game? How is he better than Zaza?

[MaceCase]

1) No one said he's better than Zaza.
2) The prize in the deal is the #7 pick.
3) Not many if any lotto team would be capable of or willing to absorb Josh's deal plus kicker outright without a guarantee he'd resign.
4) It still beats Richard Jefferson at 11 million.
5) Trading Joe for Klay is not even in the comical realm of possibilities.

[parson]

1) No one said he's better than Zaza.

If we wouldn't start him, why do we want him?

2) The prize in the deal is the #7 pick.

Poor exchange, wouldn't you say? It's kind of early to panic.

3) Not many if any lotto team would be capable of or willing to absorb Josh's deal plus kicker outright without a guarantee he'd resign.

The Nets are on my phone right now - I didn't hear the last thing you said.

4) It still beats Richard Jefferson at 11 million.

THAT'S the high point of your argument.

5) Trading Joe for Klay is not even in the comical realm of possibilities.

Which is why I posted it. Why don't we wait to panic until AFTER we've explored the more reasonable trades?

Let me address this in another way: who could you possibly be expecting to draft with the 7th overall pick that'd help us? Unless you think Drummond will fall or Tyler Zeller/Meyers Leonard are actually better than the scouts think, we're trading Josh Smith for a SF or SG. Talented, I'm sure, but worthless to our team. The exchange leaves us much, much smaller (and please don't add here that your waste of space, Biedrins, is an answer).

[theatlfan]

The Warriors would be extremely interested in Smoove. If we keep our #7 pick, we'll probably offer it for Smith. You guys would have to take Richard Jefferson or Biedrins though to make the numbers work.

Something like #7/Richard Jefferson/Dorrell Wright for Josh Smith.

While I wouldn't mind trading Smoove for #7 (and no, I wouldn't see this as a panic move...), I couldn't see us taking any salary in '13-'14 without sending some out. The big reason we're dealing Smoove is to get our numbers more cap friendly through JJ's contract - specifically with the new laws taking effect after next season. Taking on either Jefferson or Biedrins puts us around $50M in '13-'14 and we still have to resign Teague, pay for the draft picks, and fill out the roster.

OTOH, I wouldn't mind taking on both if we send out JJ as part of the deal...

[turk3d]

Here's another stab at it, at least for starters:

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradecheck ... de/6090831

[MaceCase]

1) No one said he's better than Zaza.

If we wouldn't start him, why do we want him?

He's filler in the deal and also offers depth behind Zaza.

2) The prize in the deal is the #7 pick.

Poor exchange, wouldn't you say? It's kind of early to panic.

Poor exchange? That's a matter of your opinion. No one is panicking, that is rather realistic exchange given his market. Some might even say optimistic.

3) Not many if any lotto team would be capable of or willing to absorb Josh's deal plus kicker outright without a guarantee he'd resign.

The Nets are on my phone right now - I didn't hear the last thing you said.

If they actually get to keep their pick and are willing to move it for Smoove then sure that is a better a deal but alas, that's an if. I don't care if you didn't hear it you can read the last thing I said as it's rather relevant. The Nets would be a team that fulfills the premise that I stated over a "lotto team, cap, attractiveness to have Smoove resign". If that falls through, who else do you have on the phone offering non panic deals?

4) It still beats Richard Jefferson at 11 million.

THAT'S the high point of your argument.

No, filler is not the highpoint of the statement I made nor the trade. Seeing as it's filler the less cap restrictive of the two makes perfect sense.

5) Trading Joe for Klay is not even in the comical realm of possibilities.

Which is why I posted it. Why don't we wait to panic until AFTER we've explored the more reasonable trades?

Again, the only one displaying emotion here is you. You have an opinion on what is or isn't reasonable, fine but trading a player making just over a million for another making 20 million is factually impossible.

Let me address this in another way: who could you possibly be expecting to draft with the 7th overall pick that'd help us? Unless you think Drummond will fall or Tyler Zeller/Meyers Leonard are actually better than the scouts think, we're trading Josh Smith for a SF or SG. Talented, I'm sure, but worthless to our team. The exchange leaves us much, much smaller (and please don't add here that your waste of space, Biedrins, is an answer).

Again, it's your opinion that only SFs and SGs are available at that spot but taking a gander at most mocks it is actually posited that a battalion of PFs and Cs would be available at that spot. For me personally, Jared Sullinger would be the perfect selection at that spot and the team can address BPA at it's own pick.

[theatlfan]

Here's another stab at it, at least for starters:

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradecheck ... de/6090831

Again, we can't take on the $10+M in additional '13-'14 salary for an expiring. The #7 pick and even DWright have value, but it's not so much that GSW can simply dump all their bad contracts on us as well. Honestly, I'd consider a Biedrins + DWright + #7 for Smoove but I'm not 100% that our FO would even do that. Thinking GSW could shave ~$5.5M off Jefferson's contract and take Zaza's expiring is just insulting.

[parson]

Mace, I'm sorry I offend you but $9 million for Biedrins is absurd to me. I think it's a brain-dead kind of move. Go over to the GS board, they'd gladly GIVE him to you for ... whatever you care to offer.

However, everything I post is, indeed, my "opinion" just as you say. Please remember what you say is, as well. It's a pretty poor response to an argument on a forum.

[parson]

Here's another stab at it, at least for starters:

http://basketball.realgm.com/tradecheck ... de/6090831

Kinda insulting. Try this http://basketball.realgm.com/tradecheck ... de/6091121 instead.

[MaceCase]

My "opinions" have just a tad bit more valid reasoning behind them though. The fact that you want to make that aspect the focus rather than the content of what I posted tells me all I need to know about you. We all can state our beliefs but unless I see valid reasoning and evidence to back said beliefs then they are entirely irrelevant to me.

I already discussed in detail the reasoning behind taking back Biedrins' contract. The GS fan even stated off the bat how salary needs to go back to make a deal like this work but if it's your opinion that there's no logic to it then so be it. Saying "9 million!" isn't much of an argument either. Given the conditions and expressed details of why that type of contract needs to be included in a deal like this you are just going to have to try harder to give a better reasoned argument against it outside of just how you "feel".