Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Jeremy Lamb (HOU)

[JN]

I'm just going to try to walk away from posting in Lamb threads. I think people are just overrating his skills and excusing certain valid question marks.

And yet at the same time I will befineK with the pick at #8 (which seems like a likely scneario), so I am not going to keep discussing to the point I start to hate the guy. I don't want to be a Mufasa.

I will be cheering him just as hard as you guys when he has that Raps uniform on. So if you want to overrate this guy (from my perspective) then go ahead. Were both happy with the pick so why do I need to get upset.

[shortmikeshortt]

Ok, I'll just leave it with this:

From Draft Express:

Connecticut's offense looked very ugly at times, with Lamb often alternating between disappearing for stretches and taking bad shots

His energy on this end looked very inconsistent this season, however, not displaying the competitiveness, fundamentals and attention to detail that will likely be demanded from him at the NBA level, particularly off the ball.

His team's lack of success, poor on-court chemistry and his often apathetic demeanor will likely be concerns

Lamb's laid back demeanor can get him in trouble when he doesn't put forth the intensity required to help his team

What we did see at times was that Lamb was out of place, not hustling, or defending with his arms to his sides -- showing average fundamentals.

From Chad Ford:

Negatives
Can be passive at times on offense

Surely that's better evidence than my word vs yours, or "You haven't seen him play" when I have...

[nahom1319]

I actually do remember Lamb running around trying to get open playing next to Napier and Boatright. Very limited ball movement and just terrible offense.......and often enough during games he would go hide in the corner with his hands on his hips watching the ball.

Here's the part of your sentence you forgot to add. No one is saying he didn't try to get open during the beginning of the season, buy you guys can't honestly be sticking your heads in the sand pretending the latter didn't happen.

Lamb did move off the ball quite a lot when he was playing the 3 with Napier and Boatright, but just got looked off for an ill-advised shot most of the time. Remember the game against Syracuse where Drummond rolled his ankle in the first half, but re-entered the game later on? Lamb was knocking down jumpers left and right coming off of pindowns by finding seams in Syracuse's zone defense playing with Napier and Boatright. That's a game right there I vividly remember. The main point is, it was usually in the second half of games where Lamb would start to look invisible standing on the wing or at the corner which makes sense when he's moving off the ball and your lead guard has his head turned the other way. I remember that happening against Syracuse in the Big East Tournament on their last possession with Lamb not demanding the ball on the left wing in which Doris Burke was roasting him which was highly uncalled for. They had Napier up top at the key who didn't even bother to look at the side of his shoulders after Lamb reversed the ball back. A lot of UConn's ball movement was aimless. I said it in another thread, but whenever they move the ball, it always ends up back to the guy who started the ball-reversal which would be one of Napier or Boatright up top.

This was all I was asking for... He often had this occur and we were often wondering why he didn't get more vocal/aggressive. I don't think it will be a problem in the nba but its something to keep your eye on. I just hate when posters pretend that a player is perfect.

[JN]

I actually do remember Lamb running around trying to get open playing next to Napier and Boatright. Very limited ball movement and just terrible offense.......and often enough during games he would go hide in the corner with his hands on his hips watching the ball.

Here's the part of your sentence you forgot to add. No one is saying he didn't try to get open during the beginning of the season, buy you guys can't honestly be sticking your heads in the sand pretending the latter didn't happen.

Lamb did move off the ball quite a lot when he was playing the 3 with Napier and Boatright, but just got looked off for an ill-advised shot most of the time. Remember the game against Syracuse where Drummond rolled his ankle in the first half, but re-entered the game later on? Lamb was knocking down jumpers left and right coming off of pindowns by finding seams in Syracuse's zone defense playing with Napier and Boatright. That's a game right there I vividly remember. The main point is, it was usually in the second half of games where Lamb would start to look invisible standing on the wing or at the corner which makes sense when he's moving off the ball and your lead guard has his head turned the other way, so he became content just standing in one spot. Why waste energy when you're not getting the ball, right? I remember that happening against Syracuse in the Big East Tournament on their last possession with Lamb not demanding the ball on the left wing in which Doris Burke was roasting him which was highly uncalled for. They had Napier up top at the key who didn't even bother to look at the side of his shoulders after Lamb reversed the ball back. A lot of UConn's ball movement was aimless. I said it in another thread, but whenever they move the ball, it always ends up back to the guy who started the ball-reversal which would be one of Napier or Boatright up top.

Undefeated -- the first half of the BET was the one half I did not see this year between Cuse-UConn. I do remember following the boxscore on my BB and Lamb was lighting up the scoreboard.

The other five halves were not so productive.

The guy has it in him -- maybe not consistently yet (but he is maturing).

I already broke my note from the prior post...but this was moew positive.

[fredericklove]

What the hell happened to your english? Honestly Im going to have to try to read that a few times before I get the jist of what your saying.

Edit: Okay um yes I know what the offense called for at the beginning of the season. However around the time coach went down with an injury or flu or what have you, the offense turned to crap. It became Boatright Napier and Lamb all along the perimeter passing the ball along the outside. There were no picks there was no running around there was simply a a run the clock out scenario. This was the second half of the season onward when teams decided to run zones 99% of the time.

That post was a feedback to shortmike lol. Anyways, that's on the assistant coach and his failure to provide the proper offensive sequences for the guys. Even when the coach came back at the end, he still put 3 guards on the same floor in late game situation (I find that stupid).

The thing is, Lamb is being asked to play out of his position in the first place, he's a pure SG, not a SF, when u have 2 other guards clogging both wing areas and near the top circle (just behind the 3 point line), that's a major disruption as its already disrupting Lamb's game cos Lamb is most effective when he's playing iso near top of the key or p&r at the wing area. At SF, he's always have to be restricted to the side corners, thus his best option is to curl off the screen to the corner to get his shots off, that was mostly his option. I know what you mean when all 3 passes the ball around there, if there weren't 3 guards at the perimeter, Lamb would have most of the perimeter spaces to operate his signature iso ability. That's evidently seen from earlier in the season, he scores alot because he's able to expand his scoring area at the wing area to p&r, or near top key to iso, and or curl off screens to catch and shoot.

[fredericklove]

Ok, I'll just leave it with this:

From Draft Express:

Connecticut's offense looked very ugly at times, with Lamb often alternating between disappearing for stretches and taking bad shots

His energy on this end looked very inconsistent this season, however, not displaying the competitiveness, fundamentals and attention to detail that will likely be demanded from him at the NBA level, particularly off the ball.

His team's lack of success, poor on-court chemistry and his often apathetic demeanor will likely be concerns

Lamb's laid back demeanor can get him in trouble when he doesn't put forth the intensity required to help his team

What we did see at times was that Lamb was out of place, not hustling, or defending with his arms to his sides -- showing average fundamentals.

From Chad Ford:

Negatives
Can be passive at times on offense

Surely that's better evidence than my word vs yours, or "You haven't seen him play" when I have...

Why did you deliberately take out other sentences when posting those quotes, such as ...

Look here

However, with backcourt mates Ryan Boatright and Shabazz Napier also looking to take their turns creating off the dribble and taking plenty of ill-advised shots, Connecticut's offense looked very ugly at times, with Lamb often alternating between disappearing for stretches and taking bad shots trying to assert himself in the offense.

Look at it, WITH those two ballhoggers taking TURN to hog the ball to do their things, Lamb of cos goes disappear since he doesn't even get the damn ball in his hands, thus he has to force himself back in to take bad shots.

His energy on this end looked very inconsistent this season, however, not displaying the competitiveness, fundamentals and attention to detail that will likely be demanded from him at the NBA level, particularly off the ball.

Competitiveness, fundamentals and attention are not part of motor issue, its more have to do w/ his mentality which everyone agrees he needs to be more assertive. That's his weakness there.

Lamb's laid back demeanor can get him in trouble when he doesn't put forth the intensity required to help his team

Laidback demeanor isn't relate to motor issue, its about him being aggressive when on the floor, but he has his motor running high when the offensive sequences are running thru him.

From Chad Ford, passive isn't really relate to motor issue, passive is where he's not taking it strong, not being aggressive offensively, not meaning he's PJ3 type where he's always stationary not moving at all type.

[raps_aviator]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7992014
draft prep of jeremy lamb

[Garmfay]

I'm just going to try to walk away from posting in Lamb threads. I think people are just overrating his skills and excusing certain valid question marks.

And yet at the same time I will befineK with the pick at #8 (which seems like a likely scneario), so I am not going to keep discussing to the point I start to hate the guy. I don't want to be a Mufasa.

I will be cheering him just as hard as you guys when he has that Raps uniform on. So if you want to overrate this guy (from my perspective) then go ahead. Were both happy with the pick so why do I need to get upset.

+1. First it was Beal, then Barnes, now Lamb. These prospects will never meet the expectations

[Garmfay]

You would think Lamb is a top 3 pick with the way some people are blatant in defending his flawlessness.

[turner10]

can't wait for the workouts to begin so we can see where Lamb stacks up with other talent..combine in less than a week!

[fredericklove]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7992014
draft prep of jeremy lamb

it was posted couple pages earlier.

[fredericklove]

You would think Lamb is a top 3 pick with the way some people are blatant in defending his flawlessness.

I respect you for being a Barnes fans, but in terms of Lamb, who says he doesn't have flaws. He has strength issue, questionable passing skills, doesn't absorb contact well and rarely attack to the basket.

[Kenyon009]

Durant had a strength issue and how did that turn out for him. Lamb didn't shoot enough in college how was he suppose to let alone pass the ball? Strength can be added he has skills that can't be taught. That's an easy decision to make.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Look at Lamb's flaws and who he shares them with:

Motor: Rudy Gay, Tracy McGrady
Weight: Kevin Durant, Tayshaun Prince
Passing: Kobe Bryant

Obviously, those are the best of the best, but let's stay positive. 8th is not a death sentence with guys like Lamb likely to be there.

[Double Helix]

Various quotes regarding Lamb from different talent evaluators this year... First, some positives...

After scoring 35 points against our very own JV's Lithiunian team at the U19 tournament.

Lamb's 35 points is the second-highest total in a USA U19 or Junior World Championship team member since the event was staged in 1979.

"Jeremy Lamb is a great scorer. I thought he used screens very well today." U.S. coach Paul Hewitt said in a statement.

SI

"He scores 1,000 different ways," a talent evaluator said. "He can make runners and floaters and pull-ups and threes and can score in traffic."

Anonymous GM via MSN

“He has some questions to answer during the next few weeks of individual workouts,” the GM said. “But if he answers them, look out. He really could catapult into the top five or six (picks).”

DraftExpress

He has range well past the NBA 3-point line and can shoot the ball with his feet set, off the dribble or running off screens. He's shown nice foot work coming off curls and does an excellent job creating space, squaring himself and elevating to get off his jumper.

Anonymous GM

“If his approach to the game checks out OK (during individual workouts), I think he will creep toward the top of the draft. He could be a real scorer in this league.”

Fran Fraschilla

"Personally, I'm leaning toward Lamb because of his size, length and effectiveness in an NBA offense's 'sweet spot,' the 15- to 18-foot range," wrote Fran Fraschilla of ESPN.com. "And I'm willing to overlook the Huskies' dysfunctional season with Lamb as their centerpiece because I can't ignore the poise he played with as a freshman.

"And he did go for 23 or more points eight times this past season despite the team's poor chemistry.

Anonymous NBA scout

I don’t know too many guys you’d take ahead of him at that position ... He does have a nice arsenal of shots. He’s pretty smooth once he gets in a rhythm. The shot he hit (against Providence), that classic little floater, that’ll help him at the next level if he doesn’t forget about it. You can’t get to the rim all the time in the NBA, so you’ve got to offset that.

NBAdraft.net #1 SG (May 19, 2012)

Lamb is arguably the most dynamic perimeter scorer in the country when you consider his shot-creating/making abilities in the 15-25 foot range. He's a better shooter than his percentage suggests, and with arms long enough to row a paddle-less canoe, Lamb should get plenty of clean releases. Because of his offensive takeover capabilities, his upside surpasses Bradley Beal's, however a down-year showing a lack of leadership might have put a scare into NBA evaluators. Individual mentoring and daily practice reps with professionals can only help Lamb achieve his potential.

Kevin Freeman, former Teammate of Rip Hamilton

"He's so much like Rip [Hamilton], it's unbelievable," Freeman said. "When I see him, I start to say, 'Hey, Rip.' "

Coach Calhoun on how he's humble

How many guys get 24 points in the Sweet 16 and give all the credit to somebody else," Calhoun said after that game. "He's a humble kid, let's keep it that way.

And some negatives that we've heard about on the Mocks and seen with our own eyes..


Anonymous scout

He could disappear,” said one scout. “Not to the point where it’s a huge concern, but it is a concern. That sort of gave him a reputation as someone who might be a little too laid-back, not passionate enough. I don’t think that’s the case, but we’re talking about transitioning to the NBA. So any concern is going to be magnified, and with him, that’s the biggie

and

His energy on (defense) looked very inconsistent this season, however, not displaying the competitiveness, fundamentals and attention to detail that will likely be demanded from him at the NBA level, particularly off the ball

[fredericklove]

Look at Lamb's flaws and who he shares them with:

Motor: Rudy Gay, Tracy McGrady
Weight: Kevin Durant, Tayshaun Prince
Passing: Kobe Bryant

Obviously, those are the best of the best, but let's stay positive. 8th is not a death sentence with guys like Lamb likely to be there.

Shortmike challenged us about all kinds of flaws from lamb but he goes on lillards thread to agree with someones post about how lillard has ZERO flaws. Now really? That is really an irrational bias clouded by personal preference.

[cookieman]

This little cabal that gangs up to defend Barnes/Beal/Lamb is tiresome. Apparently you guys are the only ones who watched them play, and everyone else's opinions are invalid. Lame.

Lamb is a soft, jumpshot-happy milquetoast, and we have had way too many of those over the years for the love of God. Guy Smiley will enjoy calling him a pansy though.

[fredericklove]

This little cabal that gangs up to defend Barnes/Beal/Lamb is tiresome. Apparently you guys are the only ones who watched them play, and everyone else's opinions are invalid. Lame.

Lamb is a soft, jumpshot-happy milquetoast, and we have had way too many of those over the years for the love of God. Guy Smiley will enjoy calling him a pansy though.

Those who watch them play have better understanding of the prospect's game but those haven't really watched much are making opinions based upon scouting sources. Not invalid but lack understanding, you need to watch the game to know the whole story. And not too many guys that know how to create on their own with that type of repertoire, we don't have many guys like that.

[Double Helix]

We are not going to land a franchise player at 8 in this draft.
We could land the perfect sidekick to that type of player though.
Jeremy Lamb could be that type of player.
The level of efficient SGs in the NBA is very low at the moment. If Lamb is capable of being a PER 18.0 guy in his prime, and he very well could be, that would have been good enough to be the 6th best player ranked by PER at the SG spot this year. That would have put him near Joe Johnson status.

We all want a Derick Rose type at this point, I'm sure, but we can't get everything we need in one go. Landing a guy who might be a potential top 12 C someday in last year's draft and a SG prospect who might have top 8 SG potential in the next is a solid foundation. The hardest piece to get is that franchise piece but those two would certainly be excellent starts. It would be a bit like how the Bulls had Noah and Deng before landing Rose.

[JPHolling]

heres to demar bulking up, and the raptors drafting lamb.

this is going to be a fun draft to watch, i keep changing my mind on who id like to see in a raptors uniform next year.