Do not Keep Nash, Preserve Cap...

[NotTraxxe]

The new CBA is changing the game and the money. However, it is going to take a few years before teams realize the new CBA is forcing them to spend less money on players. The next two years you will see teams hamstringing themselves with borderline stars and paying them way too much. This will trickle down and force up the cost of free agents from top to bottom as teams compete to stay relevant in the NBA.

Only superstars should be getting max/near max money. Not the likes of Gordon, Amare, Griffin, etc...

I predict after this round of contracts and early/pre CBA signings will hamstring a number of teams. The people deserving near max are players like Kobe (though getting past that point soon), Howard, Lebron. Team changers that will give you value for that money.

Right now is the best time to be rebuilding the Phoenix Suns. Rookie contracts have the most bang for the buck and by the time the contracts expire the rest of the league will catch on that the days of overspending on this CBA are over. And we will be able to retain more of the rookies.

ANY free agents we spend on now will be a waste, we will overpay for any signing and we need to protect ourselves for the next two years from making huge mistakes that will stall a rebuild back to competitor status. Long term contracts now are going to be the downfall of this team transitioning to the top tier again.

We SHOULD do everything we can to get as many people on rookie contracts as possible. We need to limit ourselves on signing vets to one or two year deals until the reality of this league catches up with the owners. Then when we are loaded with rookie contracts we can re-sign the best to reasonable rates, get the people that expire from the current batch of contracts at more reasonable rates, and trade for future assets.

In the meantime we need to maximize our trade value to do this. This is the only reason I'm so high on a pass first point guard not Nash. That would make our current assets appear more valuable and allow us to position ourselves for the best future possible.

Team that want to win now during this early time in the new CBA are going to set themselves up for failure long term. They are going to overeach and the suffer the consequences.

[NotTraxxe]

This is another reason I love length in this draft.

Look at the value of Randolph compared to the body of work. Length and body sells still after a couple of years even when the player does not fully show sollid potential I'm not saying Randolph is bad but people still see him and think, 'he could still work out in the right system'. So when you go to sell and get more in return. Length pays dividends for people who are big for their positions.

Lamb is big for a SG. In two years if he doesn't pan out we could trade him for a later first on that potential. You can do that with Rivers if he doesn't pan out because there is no size upside still.

Think about it

[Kerrsed]

Wow, sounds like everything i have been saying!

From a few days ago:

I look at it this way, If Nash is gone, that means Hill is gone also. What does our roster then look like.

?????/Telfair
??????/Dudley (He is not starter material people!)
???????/Childress
Morris/Frye/Warrick
Gortat/Lopez

Try filling in those ???? with players that are obtainable and would make sense for us future wise, while keeping our salary cap flexible. Rookies are cheap and full of untapped potential. Will they be a breakout or a bust?? Who knows, but having 3 or 4 picks added to a team swings the odds in your favor that one of them will turn out to be a great player. They also need actual playing time to develop and for the team to see what they actually got.

My belief is fill our roster holes with Rookies. Give them plenty of real playing time. Develop them. We might suck next year, but oh well, our rookies are getting themselves some experience! After that season, we might have a higher pick (4-12) to add to our new young core, throw him into the line-up and go from there. Another great thing is that young talent holds their value higher. If a young 2-3 year player doesnt work out for a team, there usually are a host of other teams that will be willing to give them a shot. Much easier to trade a young player on his rookie contract than older players that make more money.

The key is developing our own talent. We havent done this for along time (Amare). Get some rookies and develop them. Give them plenty of minutes. Not garbage minutes, real minutes. I want to know what they will do when their down 10 with 5 minutes left in the 4th. You need to put them in those situations to either succeed or fail. Either way its all experience.

I agree 100%. Rookies are the way to go. I think 4 picks in this deep draft would be great for our rebuild. Trade Gortat, who's value and play will only decrease once Nash is gone, to Portland for #6 & #11. Then Flip the #13 to Boston for #21 & #22. That would leave us with #6/#11/#21/#22.

Drummond/Lamb/Harkless/O'Quinn ---------- Yes please!

[DirtyDez]

Wow, sounds like everything i have been saying!

From a few days ago:

I look at it this way, If Nash is gone, that means Hill is gone also. What does our roster then look like.

?????/Telfair
??????/Dudley (He is not starter material people!)
???????/Childress
Morris/Frye/Warrick
Gortat/Lopez

Try filling in those ???? with players that are obtainable and would make sense for us future wise, while keeping our salary cap flexible. Rookies are cheap and full of untapped potential. Will they be a breakout or a bust?? Who knows, but having 3 or 4 picks added to a team swings the odds in your favor that one of them will turn out to be a great player. They also need actual playing time to develop and for the team to see what they actually got.

My belief is fill our roster holes with Rookies. Give them plenty of real playing time. Develop them. We might suck next year, but oh well, our rookies are getting themselves some experience! After that season, we might have a higher pick (4-12) to add to our new young core, throw him into the line-up and go from there. Another great thing is that young talent holds their value higher. If a young 2-3 year player doesnt work out for a team, there usually are a host of other teams that will be willing to give them a shot. Much easier to trade a young player on his rookie contract than older players that make more money.

The key is developing our own talent. We havent done this for along time (Amare). Get some rookies and develop them. Give them plenty of minutes. Not garbage minutes, real minutes. I want to know what they will do when their down 10 with 5 minutes left in the 4th. You need to put them in those situations to either succeed or fail. Either way its all experience.

I agree 100%. Rookies are the way to go. I think 4 picks in this deep draft would be great for our rebuild. Trade Gortat, who's value and play will only decrease once Nash is gone, to Portland for #6 & #11. Then Flip the #13 to Boston for #21 & #22. That would leave us with #6/#11/#21/#22.

Drummond/Lamb/Harkless/O'Quinn ---------- Yes please!

I like the idea but Portland would never do it. They could probably do #11 and draft a SG at #6...

FA PG
Beal/Barnes
Batum
Aldridge
Gortat

[NotTraxxe]

We have similar views here. I just believe that if we get in a situation where the Thunder are when all the rookies come close to their second contracts the league will have compensated for the new CBA and their value will be more accurate; but that having a ball distributor will inflate their value so we can take a couple of the ones that don't work and perpetually focus on getting additional picks in the future.

The value of a Lamb/Harkless that does not work out to be a star/starter is a lot higher when you pump their stats with a pass first PG. I'm thinking more financial and future rather than win now. There is no win it all scenario. The best way to get back in contention is by investing in youth now and avoid heavy long term expenditures later. Then we make a big splash when the market on FA's is back down to earth under the new CBA. The ones that don't pan out; we can flip later for far more 'inflated' value to reload with youth around the players that do work out.

But my thinking is more from a Business Analyst perspective taking in the market. We can get two year rentals on older players right now. But we will not compete for a ring. And if we are not going to contend right now then we need to use our resources to gets us there. This draft is heavy on shooters, monopolize that talent and drive the value of the rookies higher with a ball distributor not Nash. (Everyone is wise to him and what he does)

Then make prudent moves that in three years have us at next to nothing cap, in a market where FA's are significantly cheaper and the teams that reach now are overburdened under the new CBA and suffer because of it. They will be desperate.. and with 1 year left on the rookie contracts we start trading mediocre assets for more future talent coming. Rinse and Repeat.

At that time we will be in prime cap positions to bring in FA's to fill out any gaps and will do so at a much higher return on any contract investment for a FA. Now is not the time to buy long term high dollar contracts. It won't last and you are kicking yourself in the man berries in the future by doing so.

[NotTraxxe]

Oh and proof positive that what I am talking about length has value.

Robin Lopez.

The fact that we could get anything from him right now and there has been chatter about him from other teams...

Seriously. If he was 6'9" to 6'10ish do you think anyone would want him for anything but one year and team option two year deals? It's his length. Even when the tall boys don't pan out they retain value and have the highest value a year before they expire on rookie contracts. You get the most back from the tall failures. Short failures go the Alando Tucker route.

[asudevil]

Wow, sounds like everything i have been saying!

From a few days ago:

I look at it this way, If Nash is gone, that means Hill is gone also. What does our roster then look like.

?????/Telfair
??????/Dudley (He is not starter material people!)
???????/Childress
Morris/Frye/Warrick
Gortat/Lopez

Try filling in those ???? with players that are obtainable and would make sense for us future wise, while keeping our salary cap flexible. Rookies are cheap and full of untapped potential. Will they be a breakout or a bust?? Who knows, but having 3 or 4 picks added to a team swings the odds in your favor that one of them will turn out to be a great player. They also need actual playing time to develop and for the team to see what they actually got.

My belief is fill our roster holes with Rookies. Give them plenty of real playing time. Develop them. We might suck next year, but oh well, our rookies are getting themselves some experience! After that season, we might have a higher pick (4-12) to add to our new young core, throw him into the line-up and go from there. Another great thing is that young talent holds their value higher. If a young 2-3 year player doesnt work out for a team, there usually are a host of other teams that will be willing to give them a shot. Much easier to trade a young player on his rookie contract than older players that make more money.

The key is developing our own talent. We havent done this for along time (Amare). Get some rookies and develop them. Give them plenty of minutes. Not garbage minutes, real minutes. I want to know what they will do when their down 10 with 5 minutes left in the 4th. You need to put them in those situations to either succeed or fail. Either way its all experience.

I agree 100%. Rookies are the way to go. I think 4 picks in this deep draft would be great for our rebuild. Trade Gortat, who's value and play will only decrease once Nash is gone, to Portland for #6 & #11. Then Flip the #13 to Boston for #21 & #22. That would leave us with #6/#11/#21/#22.

Drummond/Lamb/Harkless/O'Quinn ---------- Yes please!

Portland would probably not bite unless we threw in a future first. heavily proected of course.

but yes. i honestly think the suns should stop patching this team in the hopes of getting the #8 seed, and just eat it for a few seasons. i really hope we also look at eating a bad contract from the pistons for their pick too. and people say "you dont win by building through the draft". just look at

OKC, Indy, Philly, LA Clips, SA, Memphis. the majority of their rosters were built through the draft, or by trading proven draft picks for star players. i'd even through in Portland, because if they hadnt had TERRIBLE TERRIBLE luck, they'd be right up there.

the fact is the suns will have to rebuild. the majority of suns fans high hopes of rebuilding through FA relies on long shot RFA who's teams will more than likely match any off we throw at them. ie Gordon, Mayo, Beasley, Batum, and their are a crap tons of teams with just as much money, and better futures lined up to make the same bids as us.

[Kerrsed]

I like the idea but Portland would never do it. They could probably do #11 and draft a SG at #6...

FA PG
Beal/Barnes
Batum
Aldridge
Gortat

I wouldnt say never.

They need to make their roster moves before Batum signs another teams offer sheet. That puts them under the gun a little. They have 2 major spots to fill, Point Guard and Center. They have a somewhat relatively young core and are looking for some veteran presence that can come in right away and help lead them into the play-offs. Thats where Gortat comes in. Yeah, they could draft Drummond for the C spot, but they will have to spend a few years developing him, which isnt good for Aldridge.

Another ace we have up our sleeve is Brooks. Portland has always had a thing for Brooks. He was a star when he played for the Ducks. What if we could throw him into the deal, but as a 2nd (after July 11th) deal. You let Portland know, "Look we do this deal, and when the FA period begins, we will do the 2nd deal".

Pre-draft: Gortat for #6 $ #11.
Post July 11th: S&T Brooks for a S&T Flynn (They have no plans on keeping him).

That equals out to basically Gortat/Brooks for Flynn/#6/#11

Brooks/Matthews/Batum/Aldridge/Gortat

There are ways to get it done, trust me. I know for a fact that a Gortat/Brooks combo would be one of them.

[NotTraxxe]

^^^

[asudevil]

I like the idea but Portland would never do it. They could probably do #11 and draft a SG at #6...

FA PG
Beal/Barnes
Batum
Aldridge
Gortat

I wouldnt say never.

They need to make their roster moves before Batum signs another teams offer sheet. That puts them under the gun a little. They have 2 major spots to fill, Point Guard and Center. They have a somewhat relatively young core and are looking for some veteran presence that can come in right away and help lead them into the play-offs. Thats where Gortat comes in. Yeah, they could draft Drummond for the C spot, but they will have to spend a few years developing him, which isnt good for Aldridge.

Another ace we have up our sleeve is Brooks. Portland has always had a thing for Brooks. He was a star when he played for the Ducks. What if we could throw him into the deal, but as a 2nd (after July 11th) deal. You let Portland know, "Look we do this deal, and when the FA period begins, we will do the 2nd deal".

Pre-draft: Gortat for #6 $ #11.
Post July 11th: S&T Brooks for a S&T Flynn (They have no plans on keeping him).

That equals out to basically Gortat/Brooks for Flynn/#6/#11

Brooks/Matthews/Batum/Aldridge/Gortat

There are ways to get it done, trust me. I know for a fact that a Gortat/Brooks combo would be one of them.

that right there sounds like a sound and reasonable plan to me also.

[Kerrsed]

The only thing is that it has to be 2 different trade. Free Agency starts on July 11. That the soonest we can sign a FA player. So we would have to let Portland know, look, this is what we are able to do. Brooks also has to be in agreement, but i dont see why he wouldnt, as he is returning back to Oregon and would be a starter and a fan favorite star.

I'd be absolutely fine trotting out Flynn as our starting PG (at least for the 1st year). Give him an opportunity and im sure he will impress alot of folks. It would be easier to rebuild around having 3 (or 4) draft picks rather than keeping 29 year old Gortat and building around him.

Flynn/Telfair
Waiters*/Dudley
Harkless*/Childress
Morris/O'Quinn*/Warrick
Lopez/Frye/Drummond*

Cheap Young team with plenty of minutes for the youngins to show us their potential.

[Qwigglez]

I really think the Blazers would heavily consider an offer of Dudley/Gortat for No 6/11, if they are serious about building around Aldridge/Batum. Gortat is only a year older than Aldridge, their PF/C rotation would be set for the next half decade, Gortat/Dudley doesn't have a history of injuries, which has always been the Blazers major concern (seriously they need a different training staff). There is no way, a 6th/11th pick would help their team short-term. They'd have a nice rotation at SG (Mathews/Dudley), and their starting lineup would round out perfectly (besides not having a PG). I don't think Aldridge wants to wait two-four years for two picks to potentially develop, plus his contract would expire when two rookies in 2012's draft are expecting extension. I dunno, it just seems like a win-win for both parties.

[Kerrsed]

I really think the Blazers would heavily consider an offer of Dudley/Gortat for No 6/11, if they are serious about building around Aldridge/Batum. Gortat is only a year older than Aldridge, their PF/C rotation would be set for the next half decade, Gortat/Dudley doesn't have a history of injuries, which has always been the Blazers major concern (seriously they need a different training staff). There is no way, a 6th/11th pick would help their team short-term. They'd have a nice rotation at SG (Mathews/Dudley), and their starting lineup would round out perfectly (besides not having a PG). I don't think Aldridge wants to wait two-four years for two picks to potentially develop, plus his contract would expire when two rookies in 2012's draft are expecting extension. I dunno, it just seems like a win-win for both parties.

I agree. There are plenty of ways to get those picks.

[Kerrsed]

I really think the Blazers would heavily consider an offer of Dudley/Gortat for No 6/11, if they are serious about building around Aldridge/Batum. Gortat is only a year older than Aldridge, their PF/C rotation would be set for the next half decade, Gortat/Dudley doesn't have a history of injuries, which has always been the Blazers major concern (seriously they need a different training staff). There is no way, a 6th/11th pick would help their team short-term. They'd have a nice rotation at SG (Mathews/Dudley), and their starting lineup would round out perfectly (besides not having a PG). I don't think Aldridge wants to wait two-four years for two picks to potentially develop, plus his contract would expire when two rookies in 2012's draft are expecting extension. I dunno, it just seems like a win-win for both parties.

I agree. There are plenty of ways to get those picks.

I'd would prefer to do Gortat/Brooks over Gortat/Dudley as i think Dudley can be used as a trade chip elsewhere. Hell, i'd even see if Boston would take Dudley for their 2 picks instead of us offering our #13. Dudley seems like a "Celtics Type" of player. He also has a strong following from his college days at Boston College. He could play the 2 for them either ahead or behind Bradley, but also could spend time behind Pierce.

Gortat/Brooks for #6/#11
Dudley for #21/#22
We still have our #13.

[DirtyDez]

I think that's more like it. We can get more than #11 but it will take more than Gortat. I'd rather do Gortat for #11 than Gortat and Dudley for #6. Even though I want a top 5 pick next year I think it's dangerous to trade your 2 best players under contract. Dudley brings more value than just quality play. He's a hard worker and fan favorite with a good contract. If they'd give #11 and #6 for both it would be hard to say no. Three lotto picks.

Nash - 2/20, Gortat for #6, 13' 1st lotto protected and Shawn Williams

Dudley for #20, 13' Unprotected 1st and JuJuanJohnson

Six 1st rounders the next two years and likely top 3 after next season.

[bwgood77]

The only thing is that it has to be 2 different trade. Free Agency starts on July 11. That the soonest we can sign a FA player. So we would have to let Portland know, look, this is what we are able to do. Brooks also has to be in agreement, but i dont see why he wouldnt, as he is returning back to Oregon and would be a starter and a fan favorite star.

I'd be absolutely fine trotting out Flynn as our starting PG (at least for the 1st year). Give him an opportunity and im sure he will impress alot of folks. It would be easier to rebuild around having 3 (or 4) draft picks rather than keeping 29 year old Gortat and building around him.

Flynn/Telfair
Waiters*/Dudley
Harkless*/Childress
Morris/O'Quinn*/Warrick
Lopez/Frye/Drummond*

Cheap Young team with plenty of minutes for the youngins to show us their potential.

Yeah, it can be exciting to an extent, but you have to walk a careful line with a plan like that. You don't want to breed a losing mentality with young players and destroy confidence when they start getting beat by like 20-30 points by good teams night after night.

You have to have a careful blend of vets that can show young guys the mentality and work ethic it takes to win combined with good young talent to get good. OKC did it gradually, but they could afford it, once they knew they had Kevin Durant, who was pretty much a guaranteed top tier player that would not allow them to lose long term, and would work hard to get to where he needed to be.

Otherwise you end up like Charlotte, Sac, GS, Wash, etc, with a bunch of young, exciting players that have no concept of what it takes to win in the nba.

[asudevil]

The only thing is that it has to be 2 different trade. Free Agency starts on July 11. That the soonest we can sign a FA player. So we would have to let Portland know, look, this is what we are able to do. Brooks also has to be in agreement, but i dont see why he wouldnt, as he is returning back to Oregon and would be a starter and a fan favorite star.

I'd be absolutely fine trotting out Flynn as our starting PG (at least for the 1st year). Give him an opportunity and im sure he will impress alot of folks. It would be easier to rebuild around having 3 (or 4) draft picks rather than keeping 29 year old Gortat and building around him.

Flynn/Telfair
Waiters*/Dudley
Harkless*/Childress
Morris/O'Quinn*/Warrick
Lopez/Frye/Drummond*

Cheap Young team with plenty of minutes for the youngins to show us their potential.

Yeah, it can be exciting to an extent, but you have to walk a careful line with a plan like that. You don't want to breed a losing mentality with young players and destroy confidence when they start getting beat by like 20-30 points by good teams night after night.

You have to have a careful blend of vets that can show young guys the mentality and work ethic it takes to win combined with good young talent to get good. OKC did it gradually, but they could afford it, once they knew they had Kevin Durant, who was pretty much a guaranteed top tier player that would not allow them to lose long term, and would work hard to get to where he needed to be.

Otherwise you end up like Charlotte, Sac, GS, Wash, etc, with a bunch of young, exciting players that have no concept of what it takes to win in the nba.

they also kill them selves by taking on "stats guys" who look great on paper, but in actuality care very little about winning in the long run.

[RunDogGun]

I'll play along:

If we traded Gortat and Dudley for #6 and #11, we would free up a bunch of salary, so we do the Detriot CV and #9 for Warrick, we flip our #13 for Boston's two picks, and flip the #9 to Houston for their two picks #14 and #16 and buy either the Denver pick or the Cleveland pick both early twenties.

That gives us six to seven first rounders. Or we could also flip the #16 to Cleveland for their #24 and both their second rounders and still buy the Denver pick. We'd still have six first, but we also add two seconds. We sign Brooks, and trade him mid season for a future first, most likely a 2013, and we have a whole new team, with only big contracts in Chilldress, Frye, and CV. We resign Redd for cheap and have him and Chilldress run the two squads. If we suck, than Dez and The madman will be as happy as can be. If we don't, then we are OKC in a few years with a ton of cap space.

By the time our rookies come up for resign, all the teams will be so worried about the cap, that we sign them for Spur type contracts. Or better yet, draft a bunch of guys who are already teammates from college and see if their loyalty to each other keeps their contracts low.

As the Brits would say, "I'm naked!"

[carey]

Brooks can not be S&T'ed. If he would have played just one game for us he would have been eligible. The new CBA states that a player must play for a team the season prior to the S&T. Coro pointed this out months ago.

[carey]

Also, you guys trying to get four to six first rounders are nuts. If even half were any good you wouldn't be able to pay them since they'd all be FAs at the same time.