When Did Kobe Pass Dr.J On Your Rankings And Why/How?

[rrravenred]

I love how posters here talk about Kobe stat padding when his comparison had his best years in the ABA in one of the fastest eras in basketball. In 1975-1976 in the ABA, Erving averaged 29.3/11/5 on 56.9 TS%. Than NBA comes around and in just one year, Erving dropped to 21.6/8.5/3.7 on 55.3 TS%, which is quite pedestrian in all-time great standards. In his first 5 years in the ABA, he had over 27 ppg EVERY YEAR and over 10 rpg EVERY YEAR. In the last 11 years in the NBA, he only had 1 year close to 27 ppg (26.9) and he NEVER once hit 10 rpg in 11 years in the NBA. Talk about watered down competition and stat padding.

Oh FFS, I'm sick of the misquoting of that year. Dr J went to an established team with several other well-established stars (McGinnis, Collins, Free) to a league without a 3-point line (not that he was a great 3-point shooter himself, but for spacing and play-style).

Also worth noting that J worked with some pretty good rebounding talent later on in his NBA career (after, it must be admitted, some injuries) like Caldwell and Bobby Jones, Daryl Dawkins and (of course) Moses. If there are other players to gather rebounds, yeah your own totals tend to drop.

Talk about selective, context free quoting and stat-mining.

I might as well quote 2004 as an example of how Kobe was unable to cope with increased defensive pressure, leaving out the Feud, the restructuring of the lakers gameplan and the Colorado rape trial.

[Asianiac_24]

I love how posters here talk about Kobe stat padding when his comparison had his best years in the ABA in one of the fastest eras in basketball. In 1975-1976 in the ABA, Erving averaged 29.3/11/5 on 56.9 TS%. Than NBA comes around and in just one year, Erving dropped to 21.6/8.5/3.7 on 55.3 TS%, which is quite pedestrian in all-time great standards. In his first 5 years in the ABA, he had over 27 ppg EVERY YEAR and over 10 rpg EVERY YEAR. In the last 11 years in the NBA, he only had 1 year close to 27 ppg (26.9) and he NEVER once hit 10 rpg in 11 years in the NBA. Talk about watered down competition and stat padding.

Oh FFS, I'm sick of the misquoting of that year. Dr J went to an established team with several other well-established stars (McGinnis, Collins, Free) to a league without a 3-point line (not that he was a great 3-point shooter himself, but for spacing and play-style).

Also worth noting that J worked with some pretty good rebounding talent later on in his NBA career (after, it must be admitted, some injuries) like Caldwell and Bobby Jones, Daryl Dawkins and (of course) Moses. If there are other players to gather rebounds, yeah your own totals tend to drop.

Talk about selective, context free quoting and stat-mining.

I might as well quote 2004 as an example of how Kobe was unable to cope with increased defensive pressure, leaving out the Feud, the restructuring of the lakers gameplan and the Colorado **** trial.

So its just a coincidence that Dr.J NEVER ONCE IN JUST OVER A DECADE put up a season similar to what he did as a ROOKIE in the ABA? I don't really care what Kobe said, the Colorado trial did affect his play. It was evident.

[Asianiac_24]

I honesty don't think Dr.J has a case. When you compare their NBA careers, they are not even close.

[AnaheimRoyale]

Dr J also had a serious injury after his ABA career, and while he was still awesome, he never regained his peak form. That counts against him, but there's no need to mischaracterise it so blatantly. Plenty of ABA guys like the Gervin Spurs or Pacers came to the NBA, and did substantially the same thing they had done in the NBA. Dr J couldn't immediately because he was basically going to a team which already had prime Allen Iverson and D.Wade. The coach looked at the (unorthodox) team and said "we've got three 30 point scorers, but that won't work, so we're going to have three 20 point scorers". Explanation over. That, and Dr J getting hurt. And of course, 80's Dr J wasn't the same player as ABA Dr J anymore (though he was still an amazing player), and also played on deep teams with other scorers and rebounders.

What's Kobe's excuse/s?

[Woodsanity]

To me Kobe passed Dr J after he won his MVP. It was a matter of time before Kobe would leapfrog him in my rankings. Kobe is a better basketball player and his longevity is superior.

To be frank Kobe didn't even deserve that MVP.... That being said Kobe is still better than Dr.J despite the fact that he was incredibly lucky. However, the gap is small.

[MisterWestside]

Not all of us measure player talent by the "how many 50 point games did he have?" metric.

Funny isn't it? The same posters that accuse LBJ and other great players for "stat padding" also list Kobe's raw point totals, as if raw point totals are the most informative metric for offensive production

Dr. J for example would often rack up 30 point games with incredible effiency in his prime, while also grabbing the offensive board and not turning the ball over a lot. In 2007, Dirk scored three less points than Kobe per 36 min while taking three less shots and two less free throws per 36.

[Not Bias]

To me Kobe passed Dr J after he won his MVP. It was a matter of time before Kobe would leapfrog him in my rankings. Kobe is a better basketball player and his longevity is superior.

To be frank Kobe didn't even deserve that MVP.... That being said Kobe is still better than Dr.J despite the fact that he was incredibly lucky. However, the gap is small.

To be frank Kobe did deserve that MVP, Gasol was there for only 27 games and Bynum only played 35 games. Peja was scoring 17 on 58TS% and David West was an all star who was giving you 20/9. The Lakers ended up getting home-court advantage. And Kobe was the best player that year. Well deserved.

[MisterWestside]

To be frank Kobe did deserve that MVP, Gasol was there for only 27 games and Bynum only played 35 games.

So you only got great production out of the center spot for a paltry 62 games.

Please.

[Not Bias]

To be frank Kobe did deserve that MVP, Gasol was there for only 27 games and Bynum only played 35 games.

So you only got great production out of the center spot for a paltry 62 games.

Please.

Yeah and not one game in 07-08 those "twin towers" played a game together

[PTB Fan]

Erving's has a good case when his overall NBA/ABA career is taken in consideration. The main reason why he's behind Kobe on the all time lists is though that not everyone appreciates his achievements in the ABA.

[MisterWestside]

Yeah and not one game in 07-08 those "twin towers" played a game together

So? The Lakers got well above-average production out of Gasol/Bynum on the floor and Odom (another player with length and versatility) provided above-average production as a starter.

[microfib4thewin]

Kobe has 3/4 of the season working with an all star level center in 08, and the times where he was without Bynum and Gasol the team was mediocre so I don't see enough of a reason to promote Kobe for MVP due to the lack of help.

The only argument that Kobe has over Dr J is 5 rings. They're very close as players.

[Not Bias]

Yeah and not one game in 07-08 those "twin towers" played a game together

So? The Lakers got well above-average production out of Gasol/Bynum on the floor and Odom (another player with length and versatility) provided above-average production as a starter.

So Cp3 (so called "robbed" of the MVP) got plenty of production from Peja, Chandler and West.

[MisterWestside]

Yeah and not one game in 07-08 those "twin towers" played a game together

So? The Lakers got well above-average production out of Gasol/Bynum on the floor and Odom (another player with length and versatility) provided above-average production as a starter.

So Cp3 (so called "robbed" of the MVP) got plenty of production from Peja, Chandler and West.

While Chandler played well that season, I'm not putting him ahead of healthy Bynum/Gasol in 08.

As for West/Peja? Odom played more minutes than both, and scored just six less points per 36 than West on seven less shots. Also a better playmaker and rebounder, and provided solid defense. Peja was better offensively than Odom but didn't provide Odom's value on defense. Its not like Peja/West were leagues ahead of Odom, if they even ahead of him at all.

And the Lakers bench was better than the Hornets.

[An Unbiased Fan]

So? The Lakers got well above-average production out of Gasol/Bynum on the floor and Odom (another player with length and versatility) provided above-average production as a starter.

So Cp3 (so called "robbed" of the MVP) got plenty of production from Peja, Chandler and West.

While Chandler played well that season, I'm not putting him ahead of healthy Bynum/Gasol in 08.

As for West/Peja? Odom played more minutes than both, and scored just six less points per 36 than West on seven less shots. Also a better playmaker and rebounder, and provided solid defense. Peja was better offensively than Odom but didn't provide Odom's value on defense. Its not like Peja/West were leagues ahead of Odom, if they even ahead of him at all.

And the Lakers bench was better than the Hornets.

Bynum was a 13/10 player for LA, Pau was a 19/8 player for LA.

Meanwhile....West was a 21/9 player, and Tyson was 12/12 player for NO.

So how the hell can you make this ridiculous claim that 35 games from a 13/10 Bynum, and 27 games from a 19/8 Chandler, is somehow better than 77+ games of 21/9 & 12/12????

This is why Kobe haters are so amazing. they suspend basic basketball common sense, just so they can rip on his accomplishments. Kobe did more with less in 2008, and deserved the MVP.

[MisterWestside]

So how the hell can you make this ridiculous claim that 35 games from a 13/10 Bynum, and 27 games from a 19/8 Chandler, is somehow better than 77+ games of 21/9 & 12/12????

Because per game numbers are at the bottom of the stat ladder Simple as that.

[MannyRam99]

are there really people who think Erving ranks higher than Kobe ?

I would hope not.

[MLSE]

It sucks that the transition time from Shaq Lakers to Gasol/Odom Lakers was probably right at Kobe's peak athleticism. Would have loved to see him with a supporting cast at that time.

[JingoWolf]

@UBFan

How the hell did David West become better then Prime Gasol?

Very silly thing to say dude for so many reasons.

[JingoWolf]

It sucks that the transition time from Shaq Lakers to Gasol/Odom Lakers was probably right at Kobe's peak athleticism. Would have loved to see him with a supporting cast at that time.

Well he did have Prime Odom... who put up 20/11/5 on 60%TS in the 06 playoffs.
Hell even Kwame played good in the 06 playoffs and some of his roleplayers stepped up.

Those teams weren't as bad at people try to say.
They were probably on par with some of Lebrons worst Cleveland teams and better then what T-Mac and Wade had to deal with some years in the 00's.

Can't pity a guy who is only behind Bill Russell and maybe Kareem when it comes to lucking out with great career circumstances/supporting casts.