Rondo is overrated

[GetItDone]

Listen Rondo fans, im not saying he's bad, the guy is great top 5-7 PG IMO, but he's just notas good as people think.

Sorry, but every time I watch, he just seems very "system" like. He stands at the 3 pt line with 10 feet to operate because people rather that because of his weak jumper, so he stands there dribbling waiting for a play to be run. I'd really wish there was some percentage where you can see how many of his assits are off set plays/screens just passing it to someone for a jumper. He then does this at least 5 times a game and then when he gets his 10 asts, people are OMGZ Rondos so GOOD, another DOUBLE DIGIT ast GAME. OMG

[kingOfqueens]

OP - If your basis of saying rondo is overrated is solely due to the fact that he has "no jumper" then I'd like to point out that steve nash has 2 mvps (and no championships) with a bigger flaw in his game - no defense. No one argues nash is not a top 5 pg despite having worst defense than rondo's jumpshot, comparatively.

Rondo will hit a few jumpshots here and there, and his shot making ability does step up in the playoffs, nash has never played a lick of defense... ever. Rondo is also one of the best rebounding pgs in the league.

As for efficiency, i think they're about even, nash's shooting percentages are off the charts, but rondo has a great ability to penetrate and finish around the rim. Their career ppg difference are not off by that much (3-4ppg). Despite having a dominant regular season team for 4-5 years nash has no championships, while rondo (who i still don't think has hit his prime) already has one.

Both are top 5 pgs with flaws.

[picc]

Thing about rondos rebounding that makes him more special is that he's a great offensive rebounder too. To me those extra possessions he gets you help mitigate his relative lack of shooting a lot. It pains me to say about a celtic but he's one of the only players that truly amazes me, not that he's the best player but his playing style and versatility from the position. He's a unique and amazing specimen.

Guards 1-3, rebounds on both ends, distributes beautifully, gets to the rim with his man playing 5 feet off him, has a developing jumper. And is one of the most fiery competitors in the league. Admire his game a lot, especially considering his shortcomings.

[PierceFan4ever]

Rondo has been the best point guard in the playoffs the last 3 years now. I love how the same trolls always bring up the same bull by saying switch Rondo with player X and see how they perform. Also Rondo is playing with 3 hof players. Those who say that, clearly don't watch Celtics games because you should realize Kg's minutes are getting cut each year, Pierce wasn't as efficient as last season and dealing with injuries, Ray Allen is not even close to the player he was 2 years ago and has missed a lot of games, the bench have been terrible with guys like Pietrus who jacks up threes all day, Dooling, D-League players like Steisma playing significant minutes because of injuries, and a scrub of Ryan Hollins. Yet Rondo is improving every year while the big three have been declining. When Kg went out in 09, Rondo took over averaging a near triple double in the playoffs that year. Rondo was the best player for the Celtics in 2010, and destroyed the Cavs in round 2. If you sag off Rondo, you give him court vision. If you play up close, he'll blow by you. This is getting ridiculous. Of course a Lakers homer would create a topic like this. Not surprised, he's been posting Celtics related threads the past 3 days, all have been awful threads.

[-[Clippers]-]

Rondo has been a Top 5 point guard for many years.

Rondo wasn't a Top 5 point guard in the past, isn't one this year, and will never be one as long as CP3, Nash, Parker, Rose, Westbrook, DWill, etc. are in the league.

[mvplayur]

I think people need to stop saying Top ___, and just say top, PERIOD. Top/Elite.

all those point guards have strengths and weaknesses... it isn't so black and white.

[Hon-essim]

Listen Rondo fans, im not saying he's bad, the guy is great top 5-7 PG IMO, but he's just notas good as people think.

Sorry, but every time I watch, he just seems very "system" like. He stands at the 3 pt line with 10 feet to operate because people rather that because of his weak jumper, so he stands there dribbling waiting for a play to be run. I'd really wish there was some percentage where you can see how many of his assits are off set plays/screens just passing it to someone for a jumper. He then does this at least 5 times a game and then when he gets his 10 asts, people are OMGZ Rondos so GOOD, another DOUBLE DIGIT ast GAME. OMG

...and neutral Rondo fans like me are saying he's not top 1-2 pg but he's not as bad as people think. Problem is, Rondo is one of those players where you defend him in stats, someone will use another stat despite his ability to fill up most obvious stats. You defend him with an in-game example and someone just brings up 1 game.

Not to mention, the league is plagued with system pgs nowadays.

Nash? System player, playmaking wasn't the same under Porter despite being a great scorer still
Deron? System player, leadership wasn't the same after Sloan despite being given a more important role
Rose? System player, his pg game jumped after Thibs and under heavy minutes

Out of the pgs who are good in a free flowing style, none has shown the adaptability to win a ring or even come close to Stockton-esque much less Magic Johnson in willing their teams to Finals.

Westbrook was already partly responsible for making OKC lose one chance at a ring and giving it to Dallas against the Heat

Paul has been exploited by SA when he was with NO and is kind of like Wade. The more talent you put on them, the less they seem to step up. Big drop off if you consider them also being the few Jordan-esque (as in they can make a poor roster dangerous in the playoffs) playoff performers in the modern NBA.

Rondo's one of the few system players that you know has stepped away from that mold because the league has seen both young Rondo in a prime Big 3 system and then fast break Rondo after the post-prime Big 3 and Doc lost Thibs.

Is Rondo as well rounded as his stats say? No. However, again, he's a class of his own. A pg with the speed and killer instinct as TP but already better than most of TP's career all without a Duncan and whose held back by the same Celtics association who wasted Pierce's talent because they can't make him hit shots. (Ironic but sad because the Celts made PP shoot more with the talent they surrounded him with and the hype behind Boston having a top quality sg where as they force Rondo to play pg almost to the point of milking his strengths when they should be sacrificing these years to help give him confidence in his shot.)

Mind you the gap between top 5-7 and top 1-3 are very narrow. People said Rondo was the guy who was going to fall off the most after the Big 3 lost their prime but Deron's leadership has declined so much which impacts his playmaking and Paul's playoff result did not change with better talent... the fact that Rondo already has a ring without a jumper and could have won another ring IF he attempted both 3pt clutch shots against LA speaks volumes on how dangerous Rondo really is and how quickly he can jump to the top especially with Rose's injury. This makes Rondo at least rightfully rated. Not overrated. Not underrated. At best, he's a question mark top 1 pg with all the other pgs declining and not having much playoff success except for Westbrook who has a close to prime Durant.

[bigboi]

Rondo has to be up there for players, people hate for no reason. Probably top 3 with Westbrook and Lebron.
I mean the hate is getting ridiculous, the dude has easily been the best point guard in the playoffs this year, but it doesn't count because he has the Big 3. He has a near 20-20-20 game, but since it's againnst the Knicks, it doesn't count. He has a 44 point game against the Heat, they sagged off him the first half, but anyone that watched the game saw the Heat put DWade and Lebron playing defense on him second half and he still scored. To me you can say Rondo isn't a top 5 PG, but to say dumb stuff like any PG could have 10 assists on the Celtics is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Anyone who watches the Celtics knows that the only offensive options other than Rondo are KG, Pierce, Allen, and Bass. Everyone else on the team sucks, even Bass and Ray Allen are inconsistent. I've seen so many blown layups Rondo passes to Ray Allen and so many passes Bass bobbles that could've been scored, but it's Rondo's fault, right?

[meatball sub]

People act like Rondo's numbers are inflated because he plays with the Big 3, which makes no sense whatsoever. He's grown up in the NBA with a sacrifice for the team mentality because that's exactly what Pierce, Allen, and KG did when they came together. Everybody needs good teammates to win.

Rondo CAN score, he's proven that several times. He's more of a distributor because he's used to deferring to 3 HOFers. We've seen the changing of the guard this year more than ever before, and it's going to show up in his individual stats from here on out.

If Rondo were surrounded by scrubs like Deron Williams was this year, he'd put up similar numbers. It's not that hard to chuck your way to 20 PPG and lead your team to the middle of the lottery when you're one of the most talented guys at your position. Making your teammates better is a whole different ballgame.

[Bertrob]

I wonder what rondo has to do to shut up the haters, cause clearly what hes done so far hasn't
-carried a team to the finals
-averaged a near triple double in 2009
-improved his shooting every year
-one of the hardest competitors and hustlers in the NBA

Does he have to turn into Magic Stockton?

[bigboi]

If Celtics miraculously win the chip this year and Rondo gets the Finals MVP, will the hate stop?

[sammyvine]

Rondo is big time. Top 3 for me with CP3, and Tony Parker AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME.

All those saying the big 3, then what about the players Magic Johnson played with or the players Kobe played with. You can only play with what you are given.

On his day he is the best PG to watch in the NBA by far.

Also get Deron Williams out of this conversation. What has he done? CP3 took NO to the play-offs when he was there and his supporting cast was no better than Deron's.

[624]

I love when sensitive fans call valid opinions on a player "hate"


Hate would be calling someone like Brandon Jennings better, but stating legit facts as to why in our opinions he's the 4th-6th best PG in the league instead of top 3 is not hate.

[sammyvine]

I love when sensitive fans call valid opinions on a player "hate"

It's hate when people come up with rubbish facts

[DaGreatLewdini]

What if a point guard has to play on a team where they are the only option that can consistently create their own shot and their primary objective becomes to create their own offense first and then look for others to distribute to. Would they be considered a "pure point guard"?

Yes, but their team success would suffer while their personal legacies would increase.

Happened before with Kidd while he was with the Nets.

The big controversy for the pure point guard is "quality of play making" since it can be so arbitrary.

In Kidd's case, the case can be made that he still reached the Finals so he arguably "led" his team. Also you saw how his decline still helped the Mavs if only because elite play making translates to great shot recognition.

In Rondo's case, he makes the declining Boston team tougher in the playoffs and that's very hard to do without a jump shot. Even great pg scorers like Parker could not do as good as a play making for Duncan.

For an inferior example of this, this was why I was a fan of Steve Blake before his decline under Mike Brown. He looks to set up first, then create his own open shot, set up again, then creates his own clutch opportunities. Very basic but very effective especially because at his best he can make plays while having his feet set and not turn the ball over and the D are often caught flat footed despite Blake having only one weapon. (that disappeared under Mike Brown despite his role as a shooter)

Injured Arenas is also the same. He uses the threat of his passing to create the hesitation that would keep the defense from defending his jump shot. He just horribly misses them but give him a player like Dwight and it's Jason Kidd-Kenyon Martin lite as Arenas dissects the D.

How could you say their team's success would suffer when in essence the player would be doing everything they needed for their team to succeed. The player that I described in the example would only be scoring as a first option out of necessity due to their team's lack of play makers and ball handlers. How would such a player be trying to increase their personal legacies. I think that's silly to say. In Rondo's case, he was given a team in which he was not the only player that could create his own offense, so he rightfully fulfills his team's need by being the excellent distributor that he is and getting everyone involved on offense. Then when we look at a player like D-Rose, he is forced to "shoot first" because it is what is asked of him by his coach due to the system he is in and the players in said system, who don't have the ability to create their own offense. You can't say that he or any other player like my example isn't a "pure point guard" because they would be fulfilling a team need by looking for their respective offense first.

[Long Duk Dong]

Rondo has been a Top 5 point guard for many years.

Rondo wasn't a Top 5 point guard in the past, isn't one this year, and will never be one as long as CP3, Nash, Parker, Rose, Westbrook, DWill, etc. are in the league.

Oh gee let me guess why? Because their better shooters, is that the only arguement you have? becuase if it is you have arguement at all. Rondo is a better defender, rebounder, and arguueably better passer then all of them. Being a good shooter does not make you the best player.

[bigboi]

What if a point guard has to play on a team where they are the only option that can consistently create their own shot and their primary objective becomes to create their own offense first and then look for others to distribute to. Would they be considered a "pure point guard"?

Yes, but their team success would suffer while their personal legacies would increase.

Happened before with Kidd while he was with the Nets.

The big controversy for the pure point guard is "quality of play making" since it can be so arbitrary.

In Kidd's case, the case can be made that he still reached the Finals so he arguably "led" his team. Also you saw how his decline still helped the Mavs if only because elite play making translates to great shot recognition.

In Rondo's case, he makes the declining Boston team tougher in the playoffs and that's very hard to do without a jump shot. Even great pg scorers like Parker could not do as good as a play making for Duncan.

For an inferior example of this, this was why I was a fan of Steve Blake before his decline under Mike Brown. He looks to set up first, then create his own open shot, set up again, then creates his own clutch opportunities. Very basic but very effective especially because at his best he can make plays while having his feet set and not turn the ball over and the D are often caught flat footed despite Blake having only one weapon. (that disappeared under Mike Brown despite his role as a shooter)

Injured Arenas is also the same. He uses the threat of his passing to create the hesitation that would keep the defense from defending his jump shot. He just horribly misses them but give him a player like Dwight and it's Jason Kidd-Kenyon Martin lite as Arenas dissects the D.

How could you say their team's success would suffer when in essence the player would be doing everything they needed for their team to succeed. The player that I described in the example would only be scoring as a first option out of necessity due to their team's lack of play makers and ball handlers. How would such a player be trying to increase their personal legacies. I think that's silly to say. In Rondo's case, he was given a team in which he was not the only player that could create his own offense, so he rightfully fulfills his team's need by being the excellent distributor that he is and getting everyone involved on offense. Then when we look at a player like D-Rose, he is forced to "shoot first" because it is what is asked of him by his coach due to the system he is in and the players in said system, who don't have the ability to create their own offense. You can't say that he or any other player like my example isn't a "pure point guard" because they would be fulfilling a team need by looking for their respective offense first.

Only Celtics other than Rondo that can create their own offense is Pierce. Rose has Deng, who can create his own offense, so what you're saying makes no sense

[DaGreatLewdini]

Rondo has been a Top 5 point guard for many years.

Rondo wasn't a Top 5 point guard in the past, isn't one this year, and will never be one as long as CP3, Nash, Parker, Rose, Westbrook, DWill, etc. are in the league.

Oh gee let me guess why? Because their better shooters, is that the only arguement you have? becuase if it is you have arguement at all. Rondo is a better defender, rebounder, and arguueably better passer then all of them. Being a good shooter does not make you the best player.

Arbitrary argument is arbitrary... Prove to me that he is a better defender, rebounder, and passer than all of the players listed. A marginal statistical advantage =/= better in a given area.

[DaGreatLewdini]

What if a point guard has to play on a team where they are the only option that can consistently create their own shot and their primary objective becomes to create their own offense first and then look for others to distribute to. Would they be considered a "pure point guard"?

How could you say their team's success would suffer when in essence the player would be doing everything they needed for their team to succeed. The player that I described in the example would only be scoring as a first option out of necessity due to their team's lack of play makers and ball handlers. How would such a player be trying to increase their personal legacies. I think that's silly to say. In Rondo's case, he was given a team in which he was not the only player that could create his own offense, so he rightfully fulfills his team's need by being the excellent distributor that he is and getting everyone involved on offense. Then when we look at a player like D-Rose, he is forced to "shoot first" because it is what is asked of him by his coach due to the system he is in and the players in said system, who don't have the ability to create their own offense. You can't say that he or any other player like my example isn't a "pure point guard" because they would be fulfilling a team need by looking for their respective offense first.

Only Celtics other than Rondo that can create their own offense is Pierce. Rose has Deng, who can create his own offense, so what you're saying makes no sense

Deng cannot nor has he ever been able to create his own offense my good friend. On the other hand Ray Allen and Paul Pierce can both create their own offense. Try again!

[FakeScreenName123]

^^^ Clearly has not seen Ray Allen play since 2005